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  • FIRST POST
    • Zippy Badger
    • By Zippy Badger 11th Aug 18, 2:12 PM
    • 7Posts
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    Zippy Badger
    Right of Way how to Extinguish the Easement
    • #1
    • 11th Aug 18, 2:12 PM
    Right of Way how to Extinguish the Easement 11th Aug 18 at 2:12 PM
    We bought a lovely Oast House last year and have one narrow drive to access it.
    Originally next door there were 3 small cottages with 2 of them having no road access so on the Tile Deed of the Oast in1953 it gave right of way access down our drive, the Oast drive so they could reach their cottage. All good so far...

    Back to present day... our neighbours bought all the 3 cottages and coverted them into one, cottage even renamed the cottage 20 years ago.
    They had planning permission and built their own drive with a turning area and garage and also have a separate path they can walk to the cottage on from the road.
    However they still continue everyday to drive down our narrow drive to park next to their house, this is opposite our front door, in an old range rover.
    They are willing to give up their rights and are asking for our 2 acre of paddock plus £25,0000 if we want to barter the right of way. Clearly they see this as bargaining chip rather than a neighbourly issue. They are not very easy to talk to!!
    The former owners laughed at the suggestion and put up with it and there is no way
    we want to give them so much...
    They have 3 means of access to their property now (including our drive) and a gate which is locked at night. We have one small drive with no gate to lock due to their access rights.

    I wonder if we can use lack of necessity (used in the Public Highway Act 1980) as a way to extinguish their easement? Using our drive is a great convenience to them not a necessity and constitutes a hugh inconvenience to us.

    Further they refuse to pay for any maintenance to the drive new quote £8000 which is partly needed by their landrover churning up the drive!
    Any advise about our legal rights to get our drive back would be welcome... Thanks
Page 1
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 11th Aug 18, 2:24 PM
    • 11,249 Posts
    • 9,620 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    • #2
    • 11th Aug 18, 2:24 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Aug 18, 2:24 PM

    Any advise about our legal rights to get our drive back would be welcome... Thanks
    Originally posted by Zippy Badger
    See a solicitor, rights of way are often not that easy to extinguish
    • Zippy Badger
    • By Zippy Badger 11th Aug 18, 2:26 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Zippy Badger
    • #3
    • 11th Aug 18, 2:26 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Aug 18, 2:26 PM
    Thanks I think this has to be our next step...
    • G_M
    • By G_M 11th Aug 18, 3:53 PM
    • 46,148 Posts
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    G_M
    • #4
    • 11th Aug 18, 3:53 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Aug 18, 3:53 PM
    You cannot just extinguish a ROW.


    The only way to do so is to get the agreement of all those who benefit from it - in this case the owner of the 2 cottages.


    That owner can set his own terms for agreeing. You can then accept his terms, attempt to negotiate with him, or leave the ROW in place.
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 11th Aug 18, 4:09 PM
    • 65,218 Posts
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    PasturesNew
    • #5
    • 11th Aug 18, 4:09 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Aug 18, 4:09 PM
    You're stuck with it really - unless you've the deep pockets required for bribery. If it were me, with all the additional access, I'd never be using your drive ...

    The thing is - that access is valuable to his house because if he split the end cottage off again, to rent it or sell it, he might wish to keep that access separate to his own...

    You'll just have to lump it really.

    Have you double checked if he has vehicular access.... it might be just on foot or by horse...
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 11th Aug 18, 4:13 PM
    • 1,005 Posts
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    need an answer
    • #6
    • 11th Aug 18, 4:13 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Aug 18, 4:13 PM
    These neighbours clearly know what they are doing and even have the "barter" in place.

    sounds to me like the previous owners had a dose of them too and that may have even been the reason they sold up.


    This "barter" seems very high,do you think there is room for negotiation without losing as much as a paddock and a substantial amount of money?

    or is it something that you could just simply do as the previous owners did and to a point ignore it?

    not the ideal solution but until they go the problem looks set to rumble on.
    in S 42 T 64 F 66
    out S 60 T 69 F 78
    2017 -32
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 11th Aug 18, 4:24 PM
    • 7,671 Posts
    • 6,418 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    • #7
    • 11th Aug 18, 4:24 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Aug 18, 4:24 PM
    We have one small drive with no gate to lock due to their access rights.
    You can fit a gate with a lock as long as they have a key. They may park there now simply because its easier than opening and closing their gates.


    http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/priv-r-o-w.html
    Last edited by Norman Castle; 11-08-2018 at 4:27 PM.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.

    Never trust a newbie with a rtb tale.
    • tom9980
    • By tom9980 11th Aug 18, 4:27 PM
    • 1,319 Posts
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    tom9980
    • #8
    • 11th Aug 18, 4:27 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Aug 18, 4:27 PM
    Nothing stopping you installing a gate that locks automatically with a keypad, maybe you have a remote in your car and for security purposes have to change the keycode on the keypad every few weeks or so, it was a shame your neighbour was out but you of course knocked to give them the new code but they were not around, sorry about that, luckily they have another access route so no big deal right?
    “In order to change, we must be sick and tired of being sick and tired.”
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 11th Aug 18, 4:36 PM
    • 3,155 Posts
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    unforeseen
    • #9
    • 11th Aug 18, 4:36 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Aug 18, 4:36 PM
    Apart from causing a substantial obstruction of a ROW. Once may be seen as accidental. If it becomes regular then don't expect the neighbour to sit back and accept it. Probably will result in an incoming injunction.

    It matters not that there are other routes. The neighbour has a ROW that you impede at your peril.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 11th Aug 18, 4:41 PM
    • 19,719 Posts
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    molerat
    Have you double checked if he has vehicular access.... it might be just on foot or by horse...
    Originally posted by PasturesNew
    This ............................
    https://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/give-support/donate-now/
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 11th Aug 18, 5:03 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    You can fit a gate with a lock as long as they have a key. They may park there now simply because its easier than opening and closing their gates.


    http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/priv-r-o-w.html
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    I'd be inclined to go for this idea. You wouldnt be depriving them of ROW - you'd just be making it as difficult as possible for them to actually use it (but subtly enough that they couldnt actually prove it).

    Another thing to check is whether the width of the ROW is specified in your deeds.

    I'd also throw into the conversation that no-one EVER will be getting your paddock off you no matter what - as that may be what they are actually up to (ie trying to get that out of you - rather more than the money they are after as well). For all you know - if they got your paddock from you - the next thing you'd notice is them applying for planning permission on it
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 11-08-2018 at 5:05 PM.
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    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 11th Aug 18, 5:43 PM
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    unforeseen
    There would be nothing stopping the neighbour wedging the gate open when he passes through and leaving it like that.

    The dominant owner is under no obligation to close the gate.

    A gate in itself is not considered a substantial interference but a locked gate may. It depends on the wording of the easement if it is for all people who need to access the cottages E.G. postman, milkman etc then a locked gate can be considered a substantial interference as they are unable to use the ROW.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 11th Aug 18, 5:51 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    There would be nothing stopping the neighbour wedging the gate open when he passes through and leaving it like that.

    The dominant owner is under no obligation to close the gate.
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    Might possibly count as "harassment" if they were persistent in that?
    Never doubt that a small group of people can change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.

    Extinction Rebellion
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 11th Aug 18, 5:53 PM
    • 30,122 Posts
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    Mojisola
    Might possibly count as "harassment" if they were persistent in that?
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    No - the locked gate could be but not wedging it open.

    Most ROWs have to be available to anyone coming to the property.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 11th Aug 18, 6:37 PM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Many people would have young children or dogs or the like that would "escape" if a gate was left open though.....
    Never doubt that a small group of people can change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.

    Extinction Rebellion
    • G_M
    • By G_M 11th Aug 18, 6:43 PM
    • 46,148 Posts
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    G_M
    A locked gate, unless a key/code was provided to those with a ROW, would clearly be a breach of the ROW.


    And a red rag to a bull I suspect! Guaranteed to see escalation whether through actions (wedging the gate open, breaking the lock etc) or law (injunction etc.)


    Stupid suggestion.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 11th Aug 18, 6:44 PM
    • 26,848 Posts
    • 96,556 Thanks
    Davesnave
    Any advise about our legal rights to get our drive back would be welcome... Thanks
    Originally posted by Zippy Badger
    You haven't lost it. You bought the property in the full knowledge that the neighbour had this RoW and your solicitor would have been able to explain the ramifications if you'd been unsure of anything. Having it extinguished now isn't going to happen.

    While the neighbour has opened the bargaining at what seems a ridiculously high level and may not be what you or I would call 'neighbourly,' you are at liberty to make your own pitch, or ignore their offer completely. It's your call.

    I'm in a similar position to you in owning a neighbour's access drive, used heavily by delivery and carer's vehicles. It becomes pot holed over a year or so. I don't solve that by spending £8k; I just put down more chippings and accept it as part of living here.
    "We won't get fooled again...."
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 11th Aug 18, 6:48 PM
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    Davesnave
    Many people would have young children or dogs or the like that would "escape" if a gate was left open though.....
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    Then they would need to take steps to secure the area where these had access, but the drive probably could not be part of that.
    Last edited by Davesnave; 11-08-2018 at 6:53 PM. Reason: better wording
    "We won't get fooled again...."
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 11th Aug 18, 6:55 PM
    • 65,218 Posts
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    PasturesNew
    Another thing to check is parking on a ROW. A ROW is usually to pass over ... not park. Double check if they're allowed to use it for anything other than access.

    Access TO somewhere might not include parking ON.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 11th Aug 18, 7:14 PM
    • 17,345 Posts
    • 48,125 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    Another thing to check is parking on a ROW. A ROW is usually to pass over ... not park. Double check if they're allowed to use it for anything other than access.

    Access TO somewhere might not include parking ON.
    Originally posted by PasturesNew
    That much is very clear legally - ie one is not allowed to park on a ROW - other than for the purposes of "loading and unloading".
    Never doubt that a small group of people can change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.

    Extinction Rebellion
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