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  • FIRST POST
    • Medders100
    • By Medders100 10th Aug 18, 10:17 PM
    • 8Posts
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    Medders100
    Dealer extended PCP to accommodate new car without consent, now stuck
    • #1
    • 10th Aug 18, 10:17 PM
    Dealer extended PCP to accommodate new car without consent, now stuck 10th Aug 18 at 10:17 PM
    First time post, and Iím in need of a bit of help! Back in May I ordered a car through a Skoda dealer who promised deliver before September when my existing PCP expires. In July they said that it might not be August , maybe late September and suggested extending my pcp for 3 months. We discussed but I did not consent. In the next communication they said they had done it Ďjust in caseí Ė I wasnít that bothered as I didnít realise what it really meant.

    Last week they emailed to say the car has been delayed and will be an additional 12 weeks, and that I could cancel the order if I wanted and theyíd return the deposit. I found a car at another dealer that was available and at a good price, so I cancelled and put the deposit down on the new one.

    When I spoke to vwfs about cancelling the extension so I could hand back my current car in Sept as planned, they said that the agreement was non reversible and that if now have to do a voluntary termination to hand back in sept. It was then that I began to wonder how the dealer had managed to extend the pcp agreement without any official consent from me! Iím not prepared to do a VT as I work hard to keep a good clean credit report, and I donít feel that I should be at a disadvantage for this dealers Ďmis-sellingí. They have subsequently said Ďyouíre not our customer any more, so weíre not helping youí, which I am astounded by.

    Vwfs are pretty useless and the new dealer have sent them an email on my behalf to try and cancel it but with no luck.

    Iím really at a loss about what I can do . I feel really annoyed that a dealer with no official authority from me can alter a credit agreement in my name, but I canít then reverse that! I really donít want to VT but I canít afford 2 finance payments whilst this all plays out. Vwfs just said raise a complaint and itíll take 8 weeks.

    Sorry itís so long, but Iím in a bit of a quandary!
Page 1
    • whambar
    • By whambar 10th Aug 18, 10:49 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    whambar
    • #2
    • 10th Aug 18, 10:49 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Aug 18, 10:49 PM
    The VT is a right so doesnt impact your credit record as such albeit it can be flagged as a VT (which isnt a default or missed payment) it may mean VWFS may not loan to you again which may be an issue if you are buying a car from a VAG brand

    How I would approach this - as an everyday joe:

    1. See if new dealer has any more margin left to give you more allowance in deal to give you the additional 3 payments to VT - easier but morally not right if you didnf agree to extension

    If not

    Write to original dealer and VWFS clearly highlighting its a formal complaint and letter before action - hold them jointly and individually responsible for miselling in that contract varied (as extended) without your knowledge or consent - VWFS said 8 weeks but I have also found them to be pretty efficient

    Await response and then escalate to FCA (or whoever it is that regulates) if a negative response

    In meantime I would VT car in Sept and if I was 100% sure Im right about what was and wasnt agreed - pay VT fee on Credit card and await obumsman decision or go far track small claims Court route for value of VT - as they are so big they may well miss it and you may get default decision anyway - pay CC when claim won

    As a side note make sure your old car meets the fair wear and tear requirements as per BVLA guide if you do VT as delap charges can hurt - you dont normally see this with Pex but VWFS will VT using BCA so it goes straight to auction
    Last edited by whambar; 10-08-2018 at 11:02 PM.
    • venison
    • By venison 10th Aug 18, 10:52 PM
    • 2,281 Posts
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    venison
    • #3
    • 10th Aug 18, 10:52 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Aug 18, 10:52 PM
    I'm no expert on this but would be annoyed as you are, my instincts would be to write to the boss of vwf explaining exactly what has happened and give him/her 7 days to reply, if that doesn't work I might be tempted to take some legal advice.
    Former Board Guide
    • Medders100
    • By Medders100 11th Aug 18, 9:15 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Medders100
    • #4
    • 11th Aug 18, 9:15 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Aug 18, 9:15 AM
    Thanks for such a detailed reply, itís really helpful. I have raised a complaint with vwfs and they said they are managing it all, but that all options still remained open to me.
    I may check with them to see if havinvg a VT on record will negatively affect my chance of getting another pcp with them, or if they can put a note somewhere to say that they had actually advised me to VT when they learned of the situation. They said that there would be no fee or payments but that I just needed to do it befor my next payment was due in early September.
    The other option I though of over night was to ask if the new dealer could part ex my car and give me a neutral amount for it (currently a bit negative) as they would be in a better position to make money on it selling through the network. Then theyíd just settle the finance - would that work?
    • DrEskimo
    • By DrEskimo 11th Aug 18, 9:54 AM
    • 184 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    DrEskimo
    • #5
    • 11th Aug 18, 9:54 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Aug 18, 9:54 AM
    When you say they extended the PCP, precisely what have they done?

    How long was the original PCP?

    Have they merely recalculated your original deal and just made it 3months longer (and given you a new GFV to reflect this).

    Are you actually in negative equity, or is this based on their woeful trade in valuation. How much is it to settle your finance in full, and how much can you realistically get for it? Try WBAC, Evans Halshaw and Tootle. Look at private market and see what the general sale price is.
    • whambar
    • By whambar 11th Aug 18, 10:07 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    whambar
    • #6
    • 11th Aug 18, 10:07 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Aug 18, 10:07 AM
    I have never done it myself but Iíve have been told by someone who said that they have - VWFS have a discretion method for customers who have Finance and taking out New Finance with them in that if dealer agrees to buy car at their book value they will accept - this was on a straight lease not a PCP (lease is very difficult to end early without paying off all contracted costs). The dealer will run the figures and he will know instantly what the settlement is

    One thing that I learned more recently that surprised me is that there is some sort of trade log - as a dealer could see every price I had been quoted in P/ex & to sell to trade as they were listed by price and postcode area of dealer bidding - so try new dealer before WBAC etc in case it shows price being bid

    Your PCP GFV should be very close to bottom end of trade price so may well be attractive enough to the dealer to do that for you and if they donít want it they will know a dealer that does - so your thought may work out - of course you shouldnít have all the hassle of this but at the same time I would want my new car and not be paying for 2 as all the hassle of insurance Parking and all that
    • Medders100
    • By Medders100 11th Aug 18, 1:22 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Medders100
    • #7
    • 11th Aug 18, 1:22 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Aug 18, 1:22 PM
    My original agreement was 42 months, ending September, but now itís December so theyíve extended it by 3 months. I have no idea about an updated GMFV, but then again I had no idea that they had applied on my behalf, or that it was non reversible! Iím sure there are other terms that I have no idea about, but working for a FS company regulated by the FCA, I am astounded that this is allowed to happen!

    What makes me laugh is every time Iím on hold to vwfs is the hold voice over keeps saying Ďto make any changes, you have to be the named agreement holderí - unless you are a dealer - then you can apparently do anything you like!
    • DrEskimo
    • By DrEskimo 11th Aug 18, 3:47 PM
    • 184 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    DrEskimo
    • #8
    • 11th Aug 18, 3:47 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Aug 18, 3:47 PM
    My original agreement was 42 months, ending September, but now itís December so theyíve extended it by 3 months. I have no idea about an updated GMFV, but then again I had no idea that they had applied on my behalf, or that it was non reversible! Iím sure there are other terms that I have no idea about, but working for a FS company regulated by the FCA, I am astounded that this is allowed to happen!

    What makes me laugh is every time Iím on hold to vwfs is the hold voice over keeps saying Ďto make any changes, you have to be the named agreement holderí - unless you are a dealer - then you can apparently do anything you like!
    Originally posted by Medders100
    Personally, VT is the last option I will always advise people to avoid. Similar to just handing the car back. With the exception of new EV's or new models where the GFV predictions can be widely optimistic, generally the GFV is set to the predicted lowest trade value, and invariable better price can be achieved through other methods.

    I will always try to get the best price for the car, and that may require a bit of work, but when you consider you could be upwards of £2k better off, the small effort required to ring around other dealers or trade sites, or the couple of months it takes to advertise and sell privately is more than worth it to me.

    So essentially, the amount of finance you have on the car, and the value of the car have not changed, despite the extension. So, just as you would have done had you been 3months before the original loan agreement, look to see where you can get a good price that will settle the outstanding finance, then proceed with the purchase of the new car.

    You can look at private sale if you can settle the finance in the short term, sale or return if you have decent garages in the local area, Tootle to see if other dealers might buy it for a good price, or places like WBAC or Evans Halshaw for a better trade price.
    • Medders100
    • By Medders100 11th Aug 18, 5:51 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Medders100
    • #9
    • 11th Aug 18, 5:51 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Aug 18, 5:51 PM
    Sadly due to a really unrealistic gmfv (£10.5k) my private sale opportunities are really limited. Evans halshall have quoted £8795, trade in was coming out at £9500, so I think that the only option left to me is to get the offending dealer to buy the car at gmfv or to wait, pay the installments and hope to win compensation from dealer / vwfs. Am I missing any options?
    • DrEskimo
    • By DrEskimo 11th Aug 18, 5:54 PM
    • 184 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    DrEskimo
    Sadly due to a really unrealistic gmfv (£10.5k) my private sale opportunities are really limited. Evans halshall have quoted £8795, trade in was coming out at £9500, so I think that the only option left to me is to get the offending dealer to buy the car at gmfv or to wait, pay the installments and hope to win compensation from dealer / vwfs. Am I missing any options?
    Originally posted by Medders100
    Is it a diesel?

    Rule of thumb is that private sale is around £2k more than trade, so would £11k be a realistic private sale price?

    If it has decent options and in a nice colour, lower than average mileage and in good condition it should shift.

    What sort of prices have dealers got the same car up for?
    • Medders100
    • By Medders100 11th Aug 18, 6:12 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Medders100
    Yes it!!!8217;s a 2.0 tdi. Dealer pricing seems to be around £11300 for similar mileage and spec.
    • Penelopa.Pitstop
    • By Penelopa.Pitstop 12th Aug 18, 7:30 PM
    • 327 Posts
    • 127 Thanks
    Penelopa.Pitstop
    Why don't you VT? At 41 months you're probably past 50% of total amount owed and it will not cost you anything at all. VT is not big issue and it won't cause you problem. It looks like you're trying to make it difficult for yourself.

    And of course continue with your complaint, as dealer shouldn't extend the lease on your behalf.
    Last edited by Penelopa.Pitstop; 12-08-2018 at 7:34 PM.

    • Medders100
    • By Medders100 12th Aug 18, 9:50 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Medders100
    I know that I won!!!8217;t get a !!!8216;black mark!!!8217; but VT!!!8217;s are taken into account by lenders when making decisions. I work really hard to keep a good record, and I don!!!8217;t see why I should have to put myself in that situation. I guess a lot of it is about principal, maybe that!!!8217;s not the right approach.

    There won!!!8217;t be any fees as I have already paid the 42 payments, so I may reconsider. Depends if I make any progress with my complaint!
    • Penelopa.Pitstop
    • By Penelopa.Pitstop 12th Aug 18, 10:07 PM
    • 327 Posts
    • 127 Thanks
    Penelopa.Pitstop
    I assume you already have new finance approved for next car (again from VWFS) or not taking finance at all. After couple of years it will be in the past and no one will care. My friend VT'ed her previous car and since then got two new cars on finance, took mortgage, loan, applied for credit cards, etc. There was absolutely no consequences of VT.

    I would be expecting investigation from finance company how they allowed this extension and some compensation for you.

    • Medders100
    • By Medders100 12th Aug 18, 10:13 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Medders100
    Deep down I think you are right. It isn!!!8217;t going to be the end of the world. I am just still seething about it.

    I do have finance agreed on the new one, but haven!!!8217;t signed the agreement yet.
    • Medders100
    • By Medders100 12th Aug 18, 10:15 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Medders100
    Sorry about all the weird characters - its converting apostrophes into rubbish
    • DrEskimo
    • By DrEskimo 12th Aug 18, 11:00 PM
    • 184 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    DrEskimo
    I sympathise with you Medders, and I too would be seeking for a resolution from the first dealer that they reinstate the original PCP agreement to allow you to hand back the car for the GFV originally quoted.

    Failing that, see if the new dealer would want to take the car at £10,500 P/X on the new car, explaining the details pf what happened with the original dealer and order. As you say, even at £10,500 it might turn some profit for them.

    I still have some doubts over either your estimation of the sale price on the open market (if I understood you correctly, you have £9,500 trade in valuations, and dealers are selling the same car for £11,300), since the differential between the trade in and the dealer sticker prices you have quoted is relatively small, but valuing a used car is certainly not an easy task, and finding a private buyer is not easy either...so leave it to you whether you want to explore that option further to minimise your losses on your current car.

    The worst case scenario is you VT. Whilst I can't vouch for the accuracy of this article, it does suggest it should have no impact on your ability to obtain future credit:

    "Other finance companies will be able to see that the agreement was terminated early, but they won!!!8217;t know why. As a result, a voluntary termination should not affect future finance applications with other lenders. It should also have no effect any other form of credit application such as a mortgage, credit card or personal loan."

    https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/car-finance-voluntary-termination-pcp-hp/2/

    Best of luck. Hope you get the original dealer to agree to resolve the situation, as what they did wasn't right!
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