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    • Throwaway1
    • By Throwaway1 10th Aug 18, 5:19 PM
    • 371Posts
    • 635Thanks
    Throwaway1
    Deposit not protected
    • #1
    • 10th Aug 18, 5:19 PM
    Deposit not protected 10th Aug 18 at 5:19 PM
    Hi, my husband and I have rented a house for 9 years (initially as students together for the first year and then stayed on and since married) but are hopefully purchasing a new property very shortly which is due to be valued in a few days. We have begun to think about the notice period and deposit of our current rental in preparation. We are on an SPT as we stopped signing annual contract renewals 3 years ago at the LL suggestion so we believe the notice due will be 2 months. We are considering not giving notice until after completion anyway as we don't want to risk losing this property if anything goes wrong with our purchase - the rent has not risen in the 9 years we have been here and we wouldn't find anywhere else anywhere near this price now.


    In terms of deposit: since reading this forum for the past few months I have seen a lot about how deposits should be protected. We are fairly certain that ours isn't as we've never been informed of such and we know that being given the details is one of the criteria. In our contract it says under 'Agreed Terms'

    TDS: Tenancy Deposit Scheme'



    and under 'Tenancy Deposit Scheme Arrangements':


    The Landlord agrees that the Deposit shall be held in accordance with the rules of the chosen TDS.


    The Landlord and Tenant agree that any interest accrued from the Deposit shall be paid to the Landlord or the Landlord's Agent.





    We have phoned around the 3 deposit schemes and none have a record of us or our deposit. Unfortunately, we cannot remember how much we paid in deposit and the amount is not mentioned in our contract. My husband has a couple of receipts that looks as though he may have paid 300 twice somehow, although the dates are confusing and one of the receipts lists the amount as 'bond' and one lists it as 'deposit'. I don't seem to have any receipts (which is VERY unlike me as I keep everything very organised in a folder) but my cheque stubs do have one 300 listed in there on the later date and I have written 'deposit'. I'm not sure why we would have paid at different times or how we would have paid twice but I am going to order bank statements from that year to try and make head or tail of it.


    So, in short, we have no idea where our deposit would be or how much it is. When we initially signed our contract it was through a LA but the LL left them immediately and just gave us pretty much the exact same contract each year without their header on it (up until it becoming a rolling contract a few years ago).



    To be truthful, we don't really expect to get our deposit back anyway as I've seen some of the things people get deductions for and we've not got a chance. Some of it is definitely wear and tear over the years, a lot of it is due to LL negligence but some of it is admittedly due to us too. We seem to have an unspoken agreement with the LL that we don't moan too much when things go wrong and he doesn't really fix anything or put rent up. We've been happy living like this as at the end of the day it's the LL's house getting wrecked (the damp is horrendous after various leaks that the LL left for months without fixing and then has been promising to redecorate the bathroom and fix the extractor fan for 2 years) and we knew we were getting a steal and it was always temporary. The bathroom is getting really horrible now though and although we are hopefully moving soon it is starting to pee me off quite a bit as the LL doesn't know we are going but has no intention of fixing it. We don't want to go down a legal route to try and get it fixed now when we are moving out any day but equally we don't want our deposit being taken after we have been so gracious all this time about that and plenty of other things (we had no hot water for 13 weeks in April/May/June). We hold no malice towards the LL as they seem like a nice enough person they are just really, really lazy or incompetent. There is no way we would sue for the 3x you can apparently get for it not being protected and a bit of me does feel like the LL should get some compensation for the way the house is now in but then the vast majority of it is their fault in the first place and whilst this isn't an excuse, we wouldn't have let the rest get so bad if there didn't seem so little point being house proud when they clearly didn't care.


    I'm not sure what we should do, if anything? If when we hand in our notice, the LL realises that it isn't protected, can they quickly put it in a scheme and then deduct it all for cleaning/repairs etc.? I think there's plenty of other ways they have broken the law (e.g. we don't have their current address, the one on our contracts was from ages ago and we know they have moved since then, they leave the gas safety certificate years at a time although it has actually just been done a month ago typically). I've got a feeling that when we hand in our notice that the LL is not going to have a clue how much or where our deposit is either. I didn't mind too much when I thought it was probably 600 but I don't want to lose possibly 1200 and of course it is nicer to not lose any. Our contract also refers to an inventory but we never received one or thought to question it and there were definitely no check in lists or anything. We also didn't think to take any photos of the broken bed (that we've lived with for 9 years after telling the LL who never replaced it and we never followed it up) but there's no way I want to pay for a new bed after sleeping in a broken one for 9 years. We even considered buying a new bed ourselves just to not have a broken one but we knew we'd have to leave it and we never dreamed we'd be here for 9 years.


    I'm not too sure what my question is other than what to we do? Tell the LL it's not protected or not? Try and contest deductions if they arise or not? Just wait and see what happens and stop over thinking things? (probably).
Page 1
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 10th Aug 18, 5:24 PM
    • 5,779 Posts
    • 5,978 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #2
    • 10th Aug 18, 5:24 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Aug 18, 5:24 PM
    Hi, my husband and I have rented a house for 9 years (initially as students together for the first year and then stayed on and since married) but are hopefully purchasing a new property very shortly which is due to be valued in a few days. We have begun to think about the notice period and deposit of our current rental in preparation. We are on an SPT as we stopped signing annual contract renewals 3 years ago at the LL suggestion so we believe the notice due will be 2 months. We are considering not giving notice until after completion anyway as we don't want to risk losing this property if anything goes wrong with our purchase - the rent has not risen in the 9 years we have been here and we wouldn't find anywhere else anywhere near this price now.


    In terms of deposit: since reading this forum for the past few months I have seen a lot about how deposits should be protected. We are fairly certain that ours isn't as we've never been informed of such and we know that being given the details is one of the criteria. In our contract it says under 'Agreed Terms'

    TDS: Tenancy Deposit Scheme'



    and under 'Tenancy Deposit Scheme Arrangements':


    The Landlord agrees that the Deposit shall be held in accordance with the rules of the chosen TDS.


    The Landlord and Tenant agree that any interest accrued from the Deposit shall be paid to the Landlord or the Landlord's Agent.





    We have phoned around the 3 deposit schemes and none have a record of us or our deposit. Unfortunately, we cannot remember how much we paid in deposit and the amount is not mentioned in our contract. My husband has a couple of receipts that looks as though he may have paid 300 twice somehow, although the dates are confusing and one of the receipts lists the amount as 'bond' and one lists it as 'deposit'. I don't seem to have any receipts (which is VERY unlike me as I keep everything very organised in a folder) but my cheque stubs do have one 300 listed in there on the later date and I have written 'deposit'. I'm not sure why we would have paid at different times or how we would have paid twice but I am going to order bank statements from that year to try and make head or tail of it.


    So, in short, we have no idea where our deposit would be or how much it is. When we initially signed our contract it was through a LA but the LL left them immediately and just gave us pretty much the exact same contract each year without their header on it (up until it becoming a rolling contract a few years ago).



    To be truthful, we don't really expect to get our deposit back anyway as I've seen some of the things people get deductions for and we've not got a chance. Some of it is definitely wear and tear over the years, a lot of it is due to LL negligence but some of it is admittedly due to us too. We seem to have an unspoken agreement with the LL that we don't moan too much when things go wrong and he doesn't really fix anything or put rent up. We've been happy living like this as at the end of the day it's the LL's house getting wrecked (the damp is horrendous after various leaks that the LL left for months without fixing and then has been promising to redecorate the bathroom and fix the extractor fan for 2 years) and we knew we were getting a steal and it was always temporary. The bathroom is getting really horrible now though and although we are hopefully moving soon it is starting to pee me off quite a bit as the LL doesn't know we are going but has no intention of fixing it. We don't want to go down a legal route to try and get it fixed now when we are moving out any day but equally we don't want our deposit being taken after we have been so gracious all this time about that and plenty of other things (we had no hot water for 13 weeks in April/May/June). We hold no malice towards the LL as they seem like a nice enough person they are just really, really lazy or incompetent. There is no way we would sue for the 3x you can apparently get for it not being protected and a bit of me does feel like the LL should get some compensation for the way the house is now in but then the vast majority of it is their fault in the first place and whilst this isn't an excuse, we wouldn't have let the rest get so bad if there didn't seem so little point being house proud when they clearly didn't care.


    I'm not sure what we should do, if anything? If when we hand in our notice, the LL realises that it isn't protected, can they quickly put it in a scheme and then deduct it all for cleaning/repairs etc.? I think there's plenty of other ways they have broken the law (e.g. we don't have their current address, the one on our contracts was from ages ago and we know they have moved since then, they leave the gas safety certificate years at a time although it has actually just been done a month ago typically). I've got a feeling that when we hand in our notice that the LL is not going to have a clue how much or where our deposit is either. I didn't mind too much when I thought it was probably 600 but I don't want to lose possibly 1200 and of course it is nicer to not lose any. Our contract also refers to an inventory but we never received one or thought to question it and there were definitely no check in lists or anything. We also didn't think to take any photos of the broken bed (that we've lived with for 9 years after telling the LL who never replaced it and we never followed it up) but there's no way I want to pay for a new bed after sleeping in a broken one for 9 years. We even considered buying a new bed ourselves just to not have a broken one but we knew we'd have to leave it and we never dreamed we'd be here for 9 years.


    I'm not too sure what my question is other than what to we do? Tell the LL it's not protected or not? Try and contest deductions if they arise or not? Just wait and see what happens and stop over thinking things? (probably).
    Originally posted by Throwaway1
    You're over thinking it.


    In essence there's 3 options:


    1: you get your deposit back
    2: you both negotiate and get some back
    3: They try to hold onto it all and you decide then whether you want to sue or not.


    Surely it's worth just asking the LL what they want to do. (protecting it now would have NO effect)
    • Throwaway1
    • By Throwaway1 10th Aug 18, 5:35 PM
    • 371 Posts
    • 635 Thanks
    Throwaway1
    • #3
    • 10th Aug 18, 5:35 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Aug 18, 5:35 PM
    You're over thinking it.


    In essence there's 3 options:


    1: you get your deposit back
    2: you both negotiate and get some back
    3: They try to hold onto it all and you decide then whether you want to sue or not.


    Surely it's worth just asking the LL what they want to do. (protecting it now would have NO effect)
    Originally posted by Comms69

    Thanks, we're not telling the LL that we're moving out yet until we at least exchange on our new house. As I say, the LL seems nice enough but I imagine that they won't have a clue how much we've actually paid (as it seems we somehow don't either) or probably where it even is so who knows what will happen? They only became a LL because they outgrew this house and decided to rent it out and get another one and it seems they don't really know what any of their responsibilites are. Whilst that means repairs aren't done promptly (or often at all) it does mean we've been left in peace for 9 years so it suited us just fine. I guess we'll (hopefully) find out soon enough if all goes well with the new house.
    Last edited by Throwaway1; 10-08-2018 at 5:38 PM.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 10th Aug 18, 5:37 PM
    • 5,779 Posts
    • 5,978 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #4
    • 10th Aug 18, 5:37 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Aug 18, 5:37 PM
    Thanks, we're not telling the LL that we're moving out yet until we at least exchange on our new house. As I say, the LL seems nice enough but I imagine that they won't have a clue how much we've actually paid (as it seems we someone don't either) or probably where it even is so who knows what will happen? They only became a LL because they outgrew this house and decided to rent it out and get another one and it seems they don't really know what any of their responsibilites are. Whilst that means repairs aren't done promptly (or often at all) it does mean we've been left in peace for 9 years so it suited us just fine. I guess we'll (hopefully) find out soon enough if all goes well with the new house.
    Originally posted by Throwaway1
    Don't worry, you cant be kicked out just on a whim, eviction takes 6 months.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 10th Aug 18, 6:48 PM
    • 2,946 Posts
    • 2,925 Thanks
    steampowered
    • #5
    • 10th Aug 18, 6:48 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Aug 18, 6:48 PM
    Does your original tenancy agreement organised by the letting agency state what your deposit was?

    Otherwise, you'd have to check bank statements I suppose.

    Who knows whether the landlord would return the deposit or not. The landlord may may take the view that he/she knows the house is a bit of dump and would have to redecorate it for a new rental anyway - he/she may be happy with this as he/she will be able to rent it for a higher sum.

    Or he/she may just want to sell the property and let it be someone else's problem.

    Or he may try and deduct from the deposit for everything.

    Its impossible to say.
    • Throwaway1
    • By Throwaway1 10th Aug 18, 7:10 PM
    • 371 Posts
    • 635 Thanks
    Throwaway1
    • #6
    • 10th Aug 18, 7:10 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Aug 18, 7:10 PM
    Does your original tenancy agreement organised by the letting agency state what your deposit was?

    Otherwise, you'd have to check bank statements I suppose.

    Who knows whether the landlord would return the deposit or not. The landlord may may take the view that he/she knows the house is a bit of dump and would have to redecorate it for a new rental anyway - he/she may be happy with this as he/she will be able to rent it for a higher sum.

    Or he/she may just want to sell the property and let it be someone else's problem.

    Or he may try and deduct from the deposit for everything.

    Its impossible to say.
    Originally posted by steampowered

    No, it doesn't mentioned the amount of deposit, just the monthly rental amount. I'm not sure if I'll be able to figure out how much the deposit was even from bank statements as it seems we possibly paid 2 x 300 each, once in March and once in June (our contract started in July) and one of the receipts says it was paid in cash. I'm not sure how we would have even fallen for paying twice other than on my husband's receipts one says 'bond' and one says 'deposit' and they may have claimed it was two different things. I feel like I may even have a memory of that but possibly I'm just making it up in my head as it was 9 years ago.



    I keep seeing things that say that there is a 6 year limit to sue for non protection of the deposit. As I say, we wouldn't sue anyway unless the LL was very picky and wanted to take our whole deposit and then it would be more of a half-hearted threat than us actually following through. Hypothetically though, as our tenancy started 9 years ago does that mean we couldn't sue now anyway, despite the fact that it still isn't protected? Or is it 6 years after moving out?
    • Throwaway1
    • By Throwaway1 10th Aug 18, 9:09 PM
    • 371 Posts
    • 635 Thanks
    Throwaway1
    • #7
    • 10th Aug 18, 9:09 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Aug 18, 9:09 PM
    Sorry, I now have another question regarding giving notice. I presumed wrongly above that an STP notice was 2 months but I have since seen on Shelter and on G_M's AST thread that it is actually 1 months notice when rent is paid monthly.

    In our original tenancy agreement it states:

    If the Tenant stays in the Property after the Tenancy has expired then a statutory periodic tenancy shall arise.

    This makes it seem then that 1 months notice would suffice. However, when the contract ended a few years ago the LL stated via text that when the contract ends it would just switch to ongoing rather than us having to keep signing new contracts but that he 'would ask for 2 months notice however' to avoid a void. My husband replied also via text saying yes, that would be fine. I'm guessing that as he said that back then, we do need to give 2 months after all?
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 11th Aug 18, 9:17 AM
    • 17,047 Posts
    • 41,974 Thanks
    FBaby
    • #8
    • 11th Aug 18, 9:17 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Aug 18, 9:17 AM
    The evidence you have about what you might have paid for the deposit in very weak. Does what you have even mention that this was paid to the agency? Paying a deposit - rather than a holding fee- 4 months before moving would be very unusual. Without anything written in the tenancy nor anything that clearly stipulate an amount paid for a deposit from the LL/agent, I can't imagine the court agreeing that these payments were a deposit that should have been protected, unless your LL/agent agree that it was (which they would have to be very silly to agree under the circumstances).

    You only have to give one month's notice. He can ask for two months, but you don't legally have to give it.
    • Throwaway1
    • By Throwaway1 11th Aug 18, 11:22 AM
    • 371 Posts
    • 635 Thanks
    Throwaway1
    • #9
    • 11th Aug 18, 11:22 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Aug 18, 11:22 AM
    The evidence you have about what you might have paid for the deposit in very weak. Does what you have even mention that this was paid to the agency? Paying a deposit - rather than a holding fee- 4 months before moving would be very unusual. Without anything written in the tenancy nor anything that clearly stipulate an amount paid for a deposit from the LL/agent, I can't imagine the court agreeing that these payments were a deposit that should have been protected, unless your LL/agent agree that it was (which they would have to be very silly to agree under the circumstances).

    You only have to give one month's notice. He can ask for two months, but you don't legally have to give it.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Thank you for your reply.

    My husband has two receipts that are on headed paper from the LA and are signed by himself and a member of their staff (next to where it says 'signed on behalf of LA'). One says 'deposit 300' and the older one says 'bond 300' (in the exact same place as on the later receipt where it then says deposit and makes no mention of bond so it looks as if they changed the wording but meant the same thing). In the booklet we got with our contracts from the LA it says:

    Leaving the property
    When leaving the property, you must ensure it is left in a clean and tidy condition. You must leave the property in the same condition it was in when you moved in. If we have to have the property cleaned for the new tentants, we will employ professional cleaners to do so. This is not cheap and we will deduct the cost of the clean from your bond.

    We do not want to do this - as you will agree, it is only fair to expect the property to be properly cleaned. Leaving the property in an unclean state will simply cause problems with the return of your deposit.

    So it looks as if they do use the terms interchangably.

    As we moved in as students and this LA specialised in student lets, all moving in dates for every property was 1st July and for a fixed period of 12 months. It was completely normal to find and sign up to a new property months in advance otherwise all the best ones would be gone way before July, in fact we left it a bit late. The money we paid definitely wasn't a holding fee and even if the LL argues only 300 of what we paid (we're still not sure if it was 600 altogether or if we both paid 600 and I seem to have lost my receipts - VERY unlikely, I lose nothing) was a super cheap deposit then it still wasn't protected.

    In regards to only giving 1 months notice by law, is that the case even though my husband texted back 3 years ago when it was requested by the LL saying the 2 months notice was fine? Does that comment legally change things or not? If it helps, the comment was made 2 months before the fixed term had expired.
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