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  • FIRST POST
    • horace972897
    • By horace972897 10th Aug 18, 3:26 PM
    • 72Posts
    • 39Thanks
    horace972897
    PCN whilst at Physio
    • #1
    • 10th Aug 18, 3:26 PM
    PCN whilst at Physio 10th Aug 18 at 3:26 PM
    Hi, I've received a PCN from a private car parking company asking for 60 (Discounted from 100). The driver parked my car at the gym where his physio appointment was held. The gym has an iPad where one puts in the registration number to get free parking and the driver tells me he did this - he photo'd the reg on the day in question so he would know the correct reg to type in. I also have a letter from the physio company showing the driver attended a physio appointment at the site on that day / time.


    Should I appeal though the parking company website? Do you think I will be sucessful?


    Any assistance would be gratefully received.


    Thanks


    Additionally:
    PPC is Premier Park
    Driver spoke to Gym over the phone, person told them that the tablet sometimes doesn't upload the data and that reception can check so they went to the gym and spoke to reception who were not helpful, told them they couldn't do anything or check and they should just appeal. They also told them that appeals usually mean the charge goes down to 10.
    Last edited by horace972897; 10-08-2018 at 4:21 PM.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 10th Aug 18, 3:35 PM
    • 37,579 Posts
    • 84,522 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 10th Aug 18, 3:35 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Aug 18, 3:35 PM
    Edit your post to remove information about who did what. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper, who are two different people.

    Once you have done this, please read the sticky thread for NEWBIES that everyone is asked to read first before they start a new thread, then send the template appeal you will find there. Are you the keeper, or is this a lease/hire car as the appeal process is different?

    Edit your post NOW! Parking scammers read these fora and can use the info from this thread against you.

    What is the name of the PPC please, and what happened when you complained to the owner/manager of the gym?

    Please also complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 10-08-2018 at 3:38 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Redx
    • By Redx 10th Aug 18, 3:39 PM
    • 19,659 Posts
    • 24,949 Thanks
    Redx
    • #3
    • 10th Aug 18, 3:39 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Aug 18, 3:39 PM
    you should name the PPC as we cannot answer properly without knowing who the enemy is

    but the NEWBIES FAQ tells you everything you need to know about this common sc@m

    see it near the top of this forum, and appeal as KEEPER using the template letter


    and complain STRONGLY to the gym and get them to cancel this pcn asap
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 10th Aug 18, 4:06 PM
    • 9,930 Posts
    • 10,232 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #4
    • 10th Aug 18, 4:06 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Aug 18, 4:06 PM
    "Edit your post" does not mean delete the entire thing.

    Your post could've easily been changed to:
    PCN whilst at Physio

    Hi, I've received a PCN from a private car parking company asking for 60 (Discounted from 100). The driver parked my car at the gym where his physio appointment was held. The gym has an iPad where one puts in the registration number to get free parking and the driver tells me he did this - he photo'd the reg on the day in question so he would know the correct reg to type in. I also have a letter from the physio company showing the driver attended a physio appointment at the site on that day / time.


    Should I appeal though the parking company website? Do you think I will be sucessful?


    Any assistance would be gratefully received.


    Thanks
    Last edited by KeithP; 10-08-2018 at 4:13 PM.
    .
    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 10th Aug 18, 5:15 PM
    • 3,430 Posts
    • 5,033 Thanks
    The Slithy Tove
    • #5
    • 10th Aug 18, 5:15 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Aug 18, 5:15 PM
    Driver spoke to Gym over the phone, person told them that the tablet sometimes doesn't upload the data and that reception can check so they went to the gym and spoke to reception who were not helpful, told them they couldn't do anything or check and they should just appeal. They also told them that appeals usually mean the charge goes down to 10.
    Originally posted by jon-w
    That kind of response/attitude beggars belief! They admit their own systems are inadequate, yet claim there's nothing they can do.

    You need to get yourself down there in person, and demand to speak to the manager (not the receptionist). You must insist that he must cancel the charge which was down to their own failings. You will not engage with the PPC. If they are so confident of the charge being reduced, then get him to put his hand in the till and pay the 10 himself.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 10th Aug 18, 5:35 PM
    • 37,579 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    • #6
    • 10th Aug 18, 5:35 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Aug 18, 5:35 PM
    I would be looking for another gym in parallel with complaints and appeal.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • horace972897
    • By horace972897 14th Aug 18, 2:44 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    horace972897
    • #7
    • 14th Aug 18, 2:44 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Aug 18, 2:44 PM
    Hi, thanks for the replies etc. The driver has complained to both the gym and the Physio provider. The physio has logged it as a formal complaint and is looking into if they can assist.
    In the meantime i as registered keeper have done as suggested in the newbies thread and have submitted the first appeal adding evidence to show the driver (who was not named and the evidence had the name removed) was parked legitimately..


    The PPC have responded with this:
    Dear REGISTEREDKEEPER,

    Re: Parking Charge Notice XXXX

    We write to acknowledge receipt of your recent online appeal, on behalf of the driver, appealing against the issuing of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) to the vehicle.

    We note your comments and must refer you to the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, Schedule 4 - Recovery of unpaid Parking Charges. This is available to view online at:
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4

    We must therefore request that the details of the driver of the vehicle at the time of the contravention are supplied; this must include their full name and serviceable UK postal address. If you are unwilling or unable to provide these details the registered keeper of this vehicle will remain liable for this PCN. This information should be provided by <ADATE>. Please note, Premier Park Limited will not reply to any correspondence until after the above date, if the requested information is not provided.

    If we do not receive this information by the date given, the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date of event will be held liable.

    If you would like to view our photographic evidence, please visit www.pcnpayments.com

    Please respond by return or by filling in the Transfer of Liability form on the reverse of the PCN and posting it to Premier Park, PO Box 624, Exeter, EX1 9JG.


    Yours Sincerely,

    The Appeals Team
    Premier Park Ltd



    I assume i just ignore it and wait till they give the result of the appeal and a POPLA code?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 14th Aug 18, 2:52 PM
    • 37,526 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #8
    • 14th Aug 18, 2:52 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Aug 18, 2:52 PM
    Yes. .
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Aug 18, 3:02 PM
    • 19,828 Posts
    • 31,316 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 14th Aug 18, 3:02 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Aug 18, 3:02 PM
    Presume first notification of 'contravention' was received through the post (no prior windscreen ticket)?

    Date of parking 'contravention?

    Date of Issue on the Notice to Keeper?

    Date of receipt of the NtK?
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • horace972897
    • By horace972897 14th Aug 18, 3:18 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    horace972897
    Presume first notification of 'contravention' was received through the post (no prior windscreen ticket)?
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Correct



    Date of parking 'contravention?
    Originally posted by Umkomaas

    Using fake dates but with the same number of days between: 15th of January



    Date of Issue on the Notice to Keeper?

    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Lets say it was 21st January



    Date of receipt of the NtK?
    Originally posted by Umkomaas

    Lets say it was the 25th Jan


    So within the timescales for PoFA 2012 unfortunately unless mistaken.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Aug 18, 3:25 PM
    • 19,828 Posts
    • 31,316 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    So within the timescales for PoFA 2012
    Seemingly so.

    Not sure why the MI5 stuff - physio and gym seem much more of a giveaway, even then, hardly an issue.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • horace972897
    • By horace972897 14th Aug 18, 4:35 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    horace972897
    MI5 cos I have now actually read the stickies rather than blindy posting as i originally did.


    But you're right of course.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Aug 18, 4:37 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,676 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Driver spoke to Gym over the phone, person told them that the tablet sometimes doesn't upload the data and that reception can check so they went to the gym and spoke to reception who were not helpful, told them they couldn't do anything or check and they should just appeal. They also told them that appeals usually mean the charge goes down to 10.
    Do as the Slithy Tove says.

    Try again NOW, get the RIGHT person on Reception and make them do the promised 'check' and make the Manager email PP to cancel the stupid thing this week:

    You need to get yourself down there in person, and demand to speak to the manager (not the receptionist). You must insist that he must cancel the charge which was down to their own failings. You will not engage with the PPC. If they are so confident of the charge being reduced, then get him to put his hand in the till and pay the 10 himself.
    • horace972897
    • By horace972897 19th Sep 18, 11:09 AM
    • 72 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    horace972897
    Hi


    I the registered keeper received an email from Premier Park rejecting the appeal and providing Popla number


    Firstly, desite putting that service by email is not allowed they have not sent a letter. I assume i still go ahead with the Popla process?


    I have written an appeal as the registered keeper and would really appreciate if some of you experts could have a look and let me know what you think. In particular i have modified some of the template info you have kindly provided to suit this particular case (in Point 5) and highlighted in yellow. Can you confirm if i was right to do this please?


    Thanks

    Deleted link - will re add shortly
    Last edited by horace972897; 19-09-2018 at 3:16 PM.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 19th Sep 18, 11:16 AM
    • 37,526 Posts
    • 21,736 Thanks
    Quentin
    Yes. Don't miss the opportunity of popla!!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 19th Sep 18, 12:02 PM
    • 19,828 Posts
    • 31,316 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I have difficulty reading Dropbox files on my iPad (scrolling through a document is almost impossible at times). I notice at the end you've quoted Jopson v HomeGuard and Pace Recovery v Mr N - why? These are both residential/tenancy cases that don't seem to me much related to parking at a gym.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • horace972897
    • By horace972897 19th Sep 18, 12:15 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    horace972897
    Sorry Umkomaas is it due to being a PDF? Can i convert it to Word or host it somewhere else to make it easier to read?

    I have quoted Jopson etc as the newbies thread says to use it for: "Permit car parks (residential 'own space' appeals, or industrial/employer car parks where the car was permitted):"


    The driver was not using a public car park, In this case, we have an authorised user using the car park appropriately and there has been no loss nor detriment caused to the owner.

    So as the driver was using the car park as a permitted person due to having an appointment. - This is why i modifed the text a little.
    Last edited by horace972897; 19-09-2018 at 12:20 PM.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 19th Sep 18, 1:37 PM
    • 10,247 Posts
    • 10,139 Thanks
    The Deep
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 19th Sep 18, 2:34 PM
    • 37,526 Posts
    • 21,736 Thanks
    Quentin
    OP are your initals xxx(removed)?
    Last edited by Quentin; 20-09-2018 at 11:36 AM.
    • horace972897
    • By horace972897 19th Sep 18, 2:49 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    horace972897
    Hi Quentin, did my name come up in the document properties, what's the problem, as i'm the RK and not the driver and the PPC already know my name?
    Last edited by horace972897; 19-09-2018 at 7:03 PM.
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