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  • FIRST POST
    • dlbriffa
    • By dlbriffa 10th Aug 18, 3:25 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 15Thanks
    dlbriffa
    Horizon Parking & Sainsbury's
    • #1
    • 10th Aug 18, 3:25 PM
    Horizon Parking & Sainsbury's 10th Aug 18 at 3:25 PM
    Hi there

    I've read through the newbie post and have submitted an appeal to Horizon using your template as registered keeper. Thank you for this.

    I received a 'parking charge notice' as my car was parked in Sainsbury's for 2 hours and 32 minutes on 28th July this year. The free parking limit is apparently 2 hours hence the 'parking charge' of £70 (discounted to £40 if paid sooner).

    I noticed that it is advised that I, as keeper, should complain to Sainsbury's as well as appealing to Horizon. My question is, how does one complain to Sainsbury's about, for example, inadequate signage, without it looking like an admission of being the driver? Is it sufficient to just appeal to Horizon?

    Many thanks
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 10th Aug 18, 3:29 PM
    • 37,194 Posts
    • 83,915 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 10th Aug 18, 3:29 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Aug 18, 3:29 PM
    See the store manager (not customer dis-services) or write to the CEO.
    Complain as keeper, pointing out the failings and the comments made by our MPs about this unregulated scam, and that genuine customers are being ripped off by these scammers. Just say the driver of your car was a genuine customer, as are you, the keeper, who has received this outrageous charge.

    Also point out that other supermarkets are available.

    Ask how can it be right that someone who was not even in the car can be held liable?

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP and store manager/CEO.
    Ask the MP to contact Sir Gregg Knight MP if he/she needs further information about the scam.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 10-08-2018 at 3:32 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 10th Aug 18, 5:20 PM
    • 2,273 Posts
    • 3,792 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    • #3
    • 10th Aug 18, 5:20 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Aug 18, 5:20 PM
    You can say you went back to the site to look at the signage. Doesn't mean you were driving at the time.
    However, if you are appealing to their better nature as a customer, then it's contradictory.
    I think you word it carefully - say you are not obliged to confirm who was driving, but you are the RK, and that the driver was at the time using Sainsbury's (were they? Can you produce any sort of evidence, eg a receipt?)
    The signs in my local Sainsburys are appalling.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • dlbriffa
    • By dlbriffa 10th Aug 18, 7:14 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    dlbriffa
    • #4
    • 10th Aug 18, 7:14 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Aug 18, 7:14 PM
    Thanks for your help and for those links.

    Will update here if/when I hear back from Horizon if they reject my appeal.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Aug 18, 10:10 PM
    • 18,897 Posts
    • 29,766 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 10th Aug 18, 10:10 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Aug 18, 10:10 PM
    Thanks for your help and for those links.

    Will update here if/when I hear back from Horizon if they reject my appeal.
    Originally posted by dlbriffa
    Aren't you complaining to Sainsburys? They are the most influential in getting the charge cancelled.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • dlbriffa
    • By dlbriffa 10th Aug 18, 11:13 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    dlbriffa
    • #6
    • 10th Aug 18, 11:13 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Aug 18, 11:13 PM
    Yeah I will do
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th Aug 18, 9:29 AM
    • 32,705 Posts
    • 19,685 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #7
    • 12th Aug 18, 9:29 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Aug 18, 9:29 AM
    Last horizon I got was not POFA compliant

    Just that was sufficient to get them to cancel one and ignore the other at first appeal.

    "There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge"
    • dlbriffa
    • By dlbriffa 12th Aug 18, 12:03 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    dlbriffa
    • #8
    • 12th Aug 18, 12:03 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Aug 18, 12:03 PM
    I've found an email address for the ceo of sainsburys! So I shall email him
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 12th Aug 18, 12:41 PM
    • 37,194 Posts
    • 83,915 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #9
    • 12th Aug 18, 12:41 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Aug 18, 12:41 PM
    Don't forget to complain to your MP as well. It's the only way this scam will ever get stopped.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • dlbriffa
    • By dlbriffa 12th Aug 18, 1:09 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    dlbriffa
    Here's what I've drafted to send to Sainsbury's, I'd appreciate any comments!

    I am writing to you regarding a ‘parking charge’ that I received from Horizon Parking. I have appealed this directly with Horizon as well as writing to you.

    This charge came as a surprise in the post and was generated via the automatic number plate readers in the car park of your Hornchurch store. Horizon Parking have contacted me as the registered keeper of the vehicle having obtained my details from DVLA.

    The car was parked at this store on 28th July 2018 between the hours of 14:50 and 17:23; a duration of 2 hours and 32 minutes. The alleged maximum ‘free’ parking time is two hours.

    I find it outrageous that, as keeper, I am expected to pay an exorbitant fee (£70) for 32 minutes of parking! I am not obliged to confirm who was driving that day, but the driver is a customer of Sainsbury’s, as am I. There are no signs in the part of the car park where the driver parked the car; signs elsewhere have questionable font size. If the driver parked in this area of the car park and left via the North Street entrance to enter the store from the High Street, no signs would be seen at all.

    Genuine customers are being ripped off by this unregulated scam. Other supermarkets are available in the area and the choice to use Sainsbury’s has resulted in this ridiculous fee. If I am forced to pay this charge, then this is £70 that I am unable to spend in your store and both the driver and I will have to reconsider where we shop in future. To quote one of our MPs, ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this! I trust that this charge will be cancelled.
    • dlbriffa
    • By dlbriffa 12th Aug 18, 1:11 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    dlbriffa
    Another quick question, should I complain to the MP for the town where the store is or where my address is? The store is Hornchurch and I live in Rainham. They are very close by but have different MPs.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Aug 18, 1:26 PM
    • 8,656 Posts
    • 8,575 Thanks
    KeithP
    Another quick question, should I complain to the MP for the town where the store is or where my address is? The store is Hornchurch and I live in Rainham. They are very close by but have different MPs.
    Originally posted by dlbriffa
    You complain to your own MP.

    But why not complain to both.
    .
    • dlbriffa
    • By dlbriffa 12th Aug 18, 1:37 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    dlbriffa
    Ha! I've found email addresses for both MPs so I can send it to both of them. :-)
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Aug 18, 1:43 PM
    • 8,656 Posts
    • 8,575 Thanks
    KeithP
    Don't forget to remind the MPs about Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill going through Parliament.
    .
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 12th Aug 18, 1:43 PM
    • 37,194 Posts
    • 83,915 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Here's what I've drafted to send to Sainsbury's, I'd appreciate any comments!

    I am writing to you regarding a !!!8216;parking charge!!!8217; that I received from Horizon Parking. I have appealed this directly with Horizon as well as writing to you.

    This charge came as a surprise in the post and was generated via the automatic number plate readers in the car park of your Hornchurch store. Horizon Parking have contacted me as the registered keeper of the vehicle having obtained my details from DVLA.

    The car was parked at this store on 28th July 2018 between the hours of 14:50 and 17:23; a duration of 2 hours and 32 minutes. The alleged maximum !!!8216;free!!!8217; parking time is two hours.

    I find it outrageous that, as keeper, I am expected to pay an exorbitant fee (£70) for 32 minutes of parking! I am not obliged to confirm who was driving that day, but the driver is a customer of Sainsbury!!!8217;s, as am I. There are no signs in the part of the car park where the driver parked the car; signs elsewhere have questionable font size. If the driver parked in this area of the car park and left via the North Street entrance to enter the store from the High Street, no signs would be seen at all.

    Genuine customers are being ripped off by this unregulated scam. Other supermarkets are available in the area and the choice to use Sainsbury!!!8217;s has resulted in this ridiculous fee. If I am forced to pay this charge, then this is £70 that I am unable to spend in your store and both the driver and I will have to reconsider where we shop shop elsewhere in future, as will all my family members. To quote one of our MPs, ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this! I trust that this charge will be cancelled.
    Originally posted by dlbriffa

    Add the comments below, stating that since our MPs are calling this a ripoff and a scam, why are Sainsbugs using them at all as all they do is drive away custom. Be more forceful. Use the words disgusted, and unregulated scam.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • dlbriffa
    • By dlbriffa 12th Aug 18, 3:09 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    dlbriffa
    Thanks for the comments. Will redraft before sending. Just off to TESCO to get my shopping first!
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 12th Aug 18, 3:21 PM
    • 37,194 Posts
    • 83,915 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Thanks for the comments. Will redraft before sending. Just off to TESCO to get my shopping first!
    Originally posted by dlbriffa
    Include a copy of the receipt with your complaint to the Sainsbugs CEO.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • dlbriffa
    • By dlbriffa 13th Aug 18, 11:24 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    dlbriffa
    Sent to Mike Coupe at Sainbury's and also my local MP and the MP for where the store is.

    Thanks for the assistance. Will follow up here if I hear anything back.
    • dlbriffa
    • By dlbriffa 13th Aug 18, 5:22 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    dlbriffa
    So... it's been cancelled already! Received an email from Horizon this afternoon. No idea if Sainsbury's even read my complaint as I only sent that this morning. This has come directly from the appeals department at Horizon. Thanks for your help everyone!
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