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  • FIRST POST
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 10th Aug 18, 2:27 PM
    • 15,900Posts
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    pinkshoes
    Compensation due?
    • #1
    • 10th Aug 18, 2:27 PM
    Compensation due? 10th Aug 18 at 2:27 PM
    I ordered a floor from a high street flooring company.

    They fitted it, it buckled, they ripped it out and fitted it again (I gave them an opportunity to put it right). It buckled again.

    I then asked for the floor to be removed and a refund.

    Refund received.

    I have written asking for compensation for the inconvenience and lost time but they have not replied.

    My next step would be a letter before action, but I need to be sure that I am correct in asking for compensation.

    In my initial letter I asked for a figure of 300 to cover:

    - the day of holiday my husband had to take for the floor to be fitted a second time (as we need all his days to cover childcare etc...).
    - the 3 hours of our time it took after the second fitting to remove sharp nails and staples that were left sticking out. (Had to be done that evening as we have kids and dogs and floor was unsafe).

    In reality:

    - they delayed my kitchen renovation by several weeks (costing a lot in take away food as we have very limited cooking facilities and had a planned visitor staying)
    - I spent two days myself stuck inside (initial fitting day and final removal day) but as it was it was my days off, I have not asked fir this to be compensated.
    - my refund (despite paying by bank transfer) was part cash and part PayPal, which meant dragging 4 kids to my nearest bank (which took an hour!!) and having to link my bank to PayPal (was not happy about this!) as I needed the money in my bank to pay again for someone else to do the floor.

    I think my demand of 300 is very reasonable given the huge inconvenience, so if I end up taking it further, would it be reasonable to claim for any of the further inconveniences as mentioned above?
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
Page 2
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 11th Aug 18, 3:16 PM
    • 12,462 Posts
    • 8,414 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    Because all DH's holidays are already accounted for, so he will now need to take a day unpaid in the future. I don't see why we should foot that bill.

    So he should have taken it unpaid to avoid an unpaid day further down the line?

    I will continue to pursue them for a day of pay lost as this is what will have to happen later this year due to their incompetence.
    Originally posted by pinkshoes
    Pink, the issue is you can claim for actual losses. The fact he has to take a day's unpaid in the future isn't part of this claim. He needs to suffer a loss on this occasion (take a day's unpaid now and keep the holiday is the better scenario). It may not appear to make sense but compensation of this nature is based on actual losses. You have to quantify those losses and whilst there is nothing to stop you asking for 300, no court would uphold the argument put forward about your losses thus far.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 11th Aug 18, 3:18 PM
    • 5,251 Posts
    • 8,595 Thanks
    Gavin83
    Does your husband earn 300 a day after tax? Do you earn more/less than your husband?

    I'm curious, how much you charging for the 3 hours of nail/staple removal?
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 11th Aug 18, 4:35 PM
    • 15,900 Posts
    • 21,827 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    Does your husband earn 300 a day after tax? Do you earn more/less than your husband?

    I'm curious, how much you charging for the 3 hours of nail/staple removal?
    Originally posted by Gavin83
    Hubby earns about 26/hour and he would normally work a 10 hour day on that day.

    Then 12/hr for 3 hours of labour to remove staples. Based on 100/day a local unskilled guy charges.

    Hubby's holiday form hasn't actually been approved yet so we will cancel it and take it unpaid then we won't be a day short later in the year.

    Thank you for your responses.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 11th Aug 18, 8:53 PM
    • 5,251 Posts
    • 8,595 Thanks
    Gavin83
    Hubby earns about 26/hour and he would normally work a 10 hour day on that day.
    Originally posted by pinkshoes
    So 260 minus tax. Do you earn less than that? If yes why couldn't you have taken the day off instead?

    Not being harsh here but if this went to court these are the kinds of questions you'll be asked. Although I do think you've got a claim you've a duty to mitigate your losses so if you do earn less than your husband this is a valid question.

    You'll have a fight on your hands though, the company won't just hand this over. Depends if you've the appetite to take this to court over what will probably amount to about 170 at best.
    • bris
    • By bris 11th Aug 18, 9:31 PM
    • 7,791 Posts
    • 6,776 Thanks
    bris
    Hubby earns about 26/hour and he would normally work a 10 hour day on that day.

    Then 12/hr for 3 hours of labour to remove staples. Based on 100/day a local unskilled guy charges.

    Originally posted by pinkshoes
    So about 26 PH and normally 10 hours on that day Why that day what about other days? This won't work in court.


    The court will want you husbands employer to give an exact figure on how much holiday pay he gets for a day.


    You can't claim for your time, that's not a loss, remember it's about losses and mitigating them.


    Tbh and I don't mean any disrespect but the majority , in fact all of the case you have except your husbands lost holiday will be pretty much laughed at.


    Your only real hope is a decent good will gesture from the company.
    • photome
    • By photome 11th Aug 18, 9:42 PM
    • 13,395 Posts
    • 8,935 Thanks
    photome


    If I take 200 from my ISA I cannot transfer it back in.

    I guess the general consensus is that a company can give you a shoddy service causing a huge inconvenience but that is ok.

    Ah well, will choose a company more carefully next time. One that actually gives a sh*t about their customers...

    The company receipt says something about them not being happy until you are, which is so far from the truth it is laughable.
    Originally posted by pinkshoes
    Don;t think anyone is saying its ok to give shoddy service and its ok to ask for 300 but if they have said no, you then have to be realistic in what you are asking for.

    Your first post you want d to make sure you were correct in asking for compo and you have been advised its only actual losses that can be claimed.

    Anything else is goodwill
    Last edited by photome; 11-08-2018 at 9:45 PM.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 12th Aug 18, 11:07 AM
    • 15,900 Posts
    • 21,827 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    So 260 minus tax. Do you earn less than that? If yes why couldn't you have taken the day off instead?
    Originally posted by Gavin83
    The 26/hour is after tax according to an online calculator.

    I earn much less but am a teacher so have fixed holidays and the only day they could return was one of my working days.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 12th Aug 18, 11:40 AM
    • 2,055 Posts
    • 1,246 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    The 26/hour is after tax according to an online calculator.

    I earn much less but am a teacher so have fixed holidays and the only day they could return was one of my working days.
    Originally posted by pinkshoes
    And does that tally with his pay slips?
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    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 12th Aug 18, 12:09 PM
    • 2,853 Posts
    • 3,674 Thanks
    unforeseen
    That equates to 73k pa on standard hours alone.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 12th Aug 18, 12:11 PM
    • 15,900 Posts
    • 21,827 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    And does that tally with his pay slips?
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    Would have to check but I imagine so.

    It has a monthly amount. He works flexi time but on that day of the week he banks 10 hours as it is the one day he doesn't need to help out with child activities.

    The clocked hours data would show that he typically does 10 hours on this day.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 12th Aug 18, 12:43 PM
    • 2,055 Posts
    • 1,246 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    Would have to check but I imagine so.

    It has a monthly amount. He works flexi time but on that day of the week he banks 10 hours as it is the one day he doesn't need to help out with child activities.

    The clocked hours data would show that he typically does 10 hours on this day.
    Originally posted by pinkshoes
    So long as holiday is paid at 10 hours a day.
    Hi there! Weve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if youre unsure why its been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 12th Aug 18, 4:28 PM
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    • 3,674 Thanks
    unforeseen
    If he is on flexitime then a days leave is the average number of hours he works each day. If it wasn't that then it would be open to abuse by people wanting the day off on the day that they work the maximum hours.
    • reason2
    • By reason2 13th Aug 18, 2:05 PM
    • 286 Posts
    • 312 Thanks
    reason2
    i think you would only have a claim if he wasn't given paid holiday. Mitigating your losses means you shouldn't choose to take it unpaid so you can save a paid date for the future.
    this wont work in court.

    If he accrues holiday for hours worked, then the only loss you could claim is the loaded amount for holiday accruals which is about 23% or so of the hourly / daily rate.

    I know you arent happy being given answers that dont suit you, but if you went to court you should expect to lose.
    Last edited by reason2; 13-08-2018 at 2:06 PM. Reason: typo
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 13th Aug 18, 4:16 PM
    • 15,900 Posts
    • 21,827 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    UPDATE: settlement accepted that just about covered DH's wasted day.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • CardinalWolsey
    • By CardinalWolsey 13th Aug 18, 4:33 PM
    • 261 Posts
    • 251 Thanks
    CardinalWolsey
    Who are you taking to court - the provider of the flooring, or the fitter? According to your original thread when this was happening, the shop arranged the fitter but you paid the fitter directly. Was it the flooring at fault, or the way it was laid? Have you had an independent report carried out which will inform the judge who is to blame?

    IMO, the shop has acted as an agent for the fitter, and you had a direct contractual relationship with the fitter - as demonstrated by you paying the fitter directly. Therefore you cannot make a claim against the shop for the performance of the fitter (if it was the fitting to blame), and you cannot make a claim against the fitter for the performance of the goods supplied by the shop (if it was the flooring itself to blame).

    You will need to prove who was responsible, and issue a claim against the appropriate party.

    Of course, you could just proceed with the claim against the retailer, on the basis that (if it is a national retailer) they are more likely to allow you to win by default (because it would be more expensive to defend than to just pay out, particularly as costs they could claim from you would be capped). You could start with an LBA and see what they offer to settle pre-court.

    But be warned, if this is defended in court, unless you can prove who/what is at fault and that you have the right party being claimed against, you will lose.

    ** I was typing this as you obviously received your settlement - I assume they went for the pre-court settlement as it will have been the cheapest option for them **
    • baza52
    • By baza52 13th Aug 18, 4:59 PM
    • 2,167 Posts
    • 2,253 Thanks
    baza52
    I ordered a floor from a high street flooring company.

    They fitted it, it buckled, they ripped it out and fitted it again (I gave them an opportunity to put it right). It buckled again.

    I then asked for the floor to be removed and a refund.

    Refund received.

    I have written asking for compensation for the inconvenience and lost time but they have not replied.

    My next step would be a letter before action, but I need to be sure that I am correct in asking for compensation.

    In my initial letter I asked for a figure of 300 to cover:

    - the day of holiday my husband had to take for the floor to be fitted a second time (as we need all his days to cover childcare etc...).
    - the 3 hours of our time it took after the second fitting to remove sharp nails and staples that were left sticking out. (Had to be done that evening as we have kids and dogs and floor was unsafe).

    In reality:

    - they delayed my kitchen renovation by several weeks (costing a lot in take away food as we have very limited cooking facilities and had a planned visitor staying)
    - I spent two days myself stuck inside (initial fitting day and final removal day) but as it was it was my days off, I have not asked fir this to be compensated.
    - my refund (despite paying by bank transfer) was part cash and part PayPal, which meant dragging 4 kids to my nearest bank (which took an hour!!) and having to link my bank to PayPal (was not happy about this!) as I needed the money in my bank to pay again for someone else to do the floor.

    I think my demand of 300 is very reasonable given the huge inconvenience, so if I end up taking it further, would it be reasonable to claim for any of the further inconveniences as mentioned above?
    Originally posted by pinkshoes
    why were staples and nails sticking out of the floor after the new one had been fitted?
    Were the 3 hours taken not part of the 10 hours of holiday pay you wanted to claim for already?
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 13th Aug 18, 5:18 PM
    • 15,900 Posts
    • 21,827 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    why were staples and nails sticking out of the floor after the new one had been fitted?
    Were the 3 hours taken not part of the 10 hours of holiday pay you wanted to claim for already?
    Originally posted by baza52

    Day 1 - floor fitted
    Day 2 (a week later) - floor removed and refitted (DH took day of holiday)
    Day 3 (another week later) floor removed again.

    Staples and nails were found AFTER the flooring had been removed a second time once the fitter had gone.

    Day 4 - floor fitted by another company. No issues.

    Who are you taking to court - the provider of the flooring, or the fitter? According to your original thread when this was happening, the shop arranged the fitter but you paid the fitter directly. Was it the flooring at fault, or the way it was laid? Have you had an independent report carried out which will inform the judge who is to blame?

    IMO, the shop has acted as an agent for the fitter, and you had a direct contractual relationship with the fitter - as demonstrated by you paying the fitter directly. Therefore you cannot make a claim against the shop for the performance of the fitter (if it was the fitting to blame), and you cannot make a claim against the fitter for the performance of the goods supplied by the shop (if it was the flooring itself to blame).

    You will need to prove who was responsible, and issue a claim against the appropriate party.

    Of course, you could just proceed with the claim against the retailer, on the basis that (if it is a national retailer) they are more likely to allow you to win by default (because it would be more expensive to defend than to just pay out, particularly as costs they could claim from you would be capped). You could start with an LBA and see what they offer to settle pre-court.

    But be warned, if this is defended in court, unless you can prove who/what is at fault and that you have the right party being claimed against, you will lose.

    ** I was typing this as you obviously received your settlement - I assume they went for the pre-court settlement as it will have been the cheapest option for them **
    Originally posted by CardinalWolsey
    It would have been a case against the flooring company. The fitter was chosen by them and worked for them, and had a uniform with their logo.

    They just make you pay the fitter directly.

    I settled for less than I asked for as I would rather focus my energy on getting my kitchen finished.

    I will certainly be leaving a factual as a warning for others, and for anyone reading this - NEVER buy flooring from a high street chain. Go for am independent flooring person!
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
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