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  • FIRST POST
    • mr120
    • By mr120 10th Aug 18, 1:31 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 9Thanks
    mr120
    End of Tenancy - 1800 bill.. please provide advice?
    • #1
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:31 PM
    End of Tenancy - 1800 bill.. please provide advice? 10th Aug 18 at 1:31 PM
    Hello,

    UPDATE:

    OK, thought I'd reply now the process finally finished!..! Huge delays at DPS.

    So the LL claim was for 1143.50 ( damage 733.50 | redecoration 410 )
    I agreed to 85 before adjudication ( damage 35 | redecoration 50 ).

    DPS decision 68 ( damage 15 | redecoration 53 )

    So I feel good about this, only paying an additional 68 instead of the LL requested 1143.50 (minus my agreed 85) and so will be getting a large amount of the deposit back.
    Now I just have to hope the LL is just happy to move on from this, after 2 or more months waiting.


    We ended a 5 year tenancy with a large bill after never missing payments and spending 500 on cleaning!


    - We singed a small mark on a carpet, we will happily help pay for replacement, but he is saying we can claim no deduction for wear and tear (5 year tenancy), is this true?
    - He says the tiler says the tile cant be replaced on its own and needs to be all replaced, we small scratched one black floor tile (not crack) - these are real tiles with groute between them, can he ask for us to pay for everything to be retiled?
    - The paint is a single coat white unwashable, I am ok to help pay to repaint, but is 400 for a 2.3m x 2.6m room not high? and should we be paying 50%..?
    - He says we need to replace 3 'standard' bulbs with 'kitchin/bathroom' grade bulbs? they are LED spotlights.. is there such a thing as kitchin grade bulbs?
    - The vent fell down, its a vent cover not a machine, just needs gluing up, is 150 normal?
    - The door to a patio is warped, so is stiff to open, he claims we must have slammed it - we never opened the door as it opens onto a main road and has spiders outside (arachnaphob). The checkout says they dont know how it could have happened. What can we do about this, anything?

    Carpets 750 (actual quote for 2 rooms) speak to the checkout people or small claims that due to the burns etc a wear tear deduction will not apply as we are now forced to replace this carpet -rather than keep it which was our intention
    Tiling 400 less 25% wear & tear = 300
    Door 250
    Painting 400 less 50% 200
    Lights 3 replacements 75
    Kitchen Vent 150
    Last edited by mr120; 21-11-2018 at 5:10 PM.
Page 2
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 12th Aug 18, 7:06 PM
    • 13,350 Posts
    • 19,228 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    I take it you have read the information in the link given in post #7. It explains betterment. Do you think the definition of betterment has somehow changed since you last posted?

    Why would you need to get quotes when the onus is on the landlord to prove the deductions are reasonable?
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 12th Aug 18, 8:04 PM
    • 3,760 Posts
    • 10,100 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    Is there a reason why you're still communicating rather than submitting your claim to the deposit scheme?
    • mr120
    • By mr120 12th Aug 18, 8:29 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    mr120
    He still hasn't finalised his bill, so can't dispute it yet :S. As soon as he does we will, or am I missing something can I just go and say his estimates via email so far are not agreeable and start the dispute?

    Thanks
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 12th Aug 18, 8:46 PM
    • 3,760 Posts
    • 10,100 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    He still hasn't finalised his bill, so can't dispute it yet :S. As soon as he does we will, or am I missing something can I just go and say his estimates via email so far are not agreeable and start the dispute?

    Thanks
    Originally posted by mr120
    You can just go to the scheme first and claim your full deposit back.

    Stop fannying about you're never going to get anywhere dealing with this joker direct.
    • diggingdude
    • By diggingdude 12th Aug 18, 9:17 PM
    • 456 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    diggingdude
    Remember to make and shame this chancer on relevant social media when you win your claim
    House Deposit - Target 20000 April 2019
    Current Savings - 10225 13121.22 14621.22 16021 1729615171 15971 16983
    • franklee
    • By franklee 12th Aug 18, 10:22 PM
    • 3,761 Posts
    • 4,060 Thanks
    franklee
    I would use the information and arguments from these links to dispute his figures with the landlord initially then raised as a dispute with the scheme the deposit is protected in.

    http://www.propertymark.co.uk/advice-and-guides/landlords/fair-wear-and-tear.aspx

    https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com/resources/files/Product%20Lifespans%20Guide_DIGITAL.PDF

    https://www.mydeposits.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/A-Guide-to-Deposits-Disputes-and-Damages.pdf

    If your deposit isn't in one of the above two schemes then also look at the guides of the one it's in. The guides will all be similar but it may have more impact if you quote the scheme he has used as that's how the arbiters will see things. The guides should be on their website.
    • mr120
    • By mr120 31st Aug 18, 3:41 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    mr120
    So it has finally gone to arbitration.
    Email received from deposit scheme implies I must provide evidence of everything otherwise LL will take full deposit?

    I have digital checkout and tenancy agreements, but only a printed check in, do I send these as is? TBH I was under the impression it is the LL job to provide all the evidence.

    In order to decide how the money should be distributed between you and your landlord or letting agent, the adjudicator assessing your case will need to review the evidence relating to the claim. Please send us your evidence by email to disputes@depositprotection.com or by post to The DPS, The Pavilions, Bridgwater Road, Bristol, BS99 6AA.

    We must either receive evidence or written confirmation that you have no evidence to submit by 14/09/2018. If we do not receive this information, the disputed amount will automatically be paid to the landlord or letting agent in accordance with our Terms and Conditions.

    You can find out more about dispute resolution here.

    To help prepare for your submission, here are some examples of the type of evidence you should consider providing, including a full, signed and legally compliant tenancy agreement:

    Check-in inventory and schedule of condition
    Check-out inventory and schedule of condition
    Vacating instructions
    A copy of agents Terms of Business (if applicable)
    Estimates, invoices and/ or receipts
    Statement of rent accounts
    Correspondence regarding the dispute
    Photographs, video or any other visual evidence
    Housing Benefit correspondence and documentation
    Any other evidence you would like the adjudicator to consider
    • G_M
    • By G_M 31st Aug 18, 3:57 PM
    • 46,155 Posts
    • 55,848 Thanks
    G_M
    You don't have to submit any evidence. The onus is on the landlord to prove his proposed deductions are justified.


    But assuming he submits some kind of evidence to support his claim, it will obviously be to your advantage if you have also submitted evidence.


    The adjudicator will look at the evidence (if any) submitted by both sides, and reach a conclusion.


    If you submit nothing, the landlord's evidence will seem stronger.
    • mr120
    • By mr120 31st Aug 18, 4:10 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    mr120
    Thanks for the reply.

    So i just submit tenancy agreement, checkin and checkout docs.
    I have nothing else. I guess it just seems confusing as I assume the landlord must provide both these otherwise deductions cant be evaluated any way.
    Either way, I'll submit those 3 and hope that's enough, I guess it makes sure the LL doesnt provide falsified checkin/outs etc.

    Edit: The check-in is printed, would me scanning each page and compiling it into a pdf for digital submission be valid proof still?
    Last edited by mr120; 31-08-2018 at 4:12 PM. Reason: Extra question added
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 31st Aug 18, 5:12 PM
    • 5,813 Posts
    • 6,033 Thanks
    Comms69
    Hello,
    We ended a 5 year tenancy with a large bill after never missing payments and spending 500 on cleaning!


    - We singed a small mark on a carpet, we will happily help pay for replacement, but he is saying we can claim no deduction for wear and tear (5 year tenancy), is this true?
    - He says the tiler says the tile cant be replaced on its own and needs to be all replaced, we small scratched one black floor tile (not crack) - these are real tiles with groute between them, can he ask for us to pay for everything to be retiled?
    - The paint is a single coat white unwashable, I am ok to help pay to repaint, but is 400 for a 2.3m x 2.6m room not high? and should we be paying 50%..?
    - He says we need to replace 3 'standard' bulbs with 'kitchin/bathroom' grade bulbs? they are LED spotlights.. is there such a thing as kitchin grade bulbs?
    - The vent fell down, its a vent cover not a machine, just needs gluing up, is 150 normal?
    - The door to a patio is warped, so is stiff to open, he claims we must have slammed it - we never opened the door as it opens onto a main road and has spiders outside (arachnaphob). The checkout says they dont know how it could have happened. What can we do about this, anything?

    Carpets 750 (actual quote for 2 rooms) speak to the checkout people or small claims that due to the burns etc a wear tear deduction will not apply as we are now forced to replace this carpet -rather than keep it which was our intention
    Tiling 400 less 25% wear & tear = 300
    Door 250
    Painting 400 less 50% 200
    Lights 3 replacements 75
    Kitchen Vent 150
    Originally posted by mr120
    No. This is a load of cobblers.


    50 for the stain, 80 for the tile. Job done. (and frankly that's if you're feeling generous)
    • Rosemary7391
    • By Rosemary7391 31st Aug 18, 5:37 PM
    • 2,499 Posts
    • 4,258 Thanks
    Rosemary7391

    Edit: The check-in is printed, would me scanning each page and compiling it into a pdf for digital submission be valid proof still?
    Originally posted by mr120

    I should think that would be fine
    Slinkies 2018 Challenge - 0/80lb lost
    • tlc678910
    • By tlc678910 1st Sep 18, 2:34 AM
    • 748 Posts
    • 1,175 Thanks
    tlc678910
    I think when the statement says if you don't submit any evidence or let them know that you have none the landlord will be awarded full damages they mean that by doing this you don't dispute or defend the claim.

    While sending your evidence i would also write a letter to accompany it saying that you do dispute the claim and on what grounds (for the different items) e.g. just for example - not checked the specifics of your arguments.

    e.g. Claim for carpet wear in living room. Landlord wants x. You will see in check in inventory that carpeted in poor condition and I argue after the wear and tear of my tenancy it has a value of zero.
    cracked tiles. I do not dispute that two tiles have been damaged but I do dispute the cost to make good which landlord claims is x. I think it is y.

    Basically I would walk them through your arguments and sign post them to any relevant evidence such as the inventories or photos.
    Good luck and let us know how you get on.
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 1st Sep 18, 6:45 AM
    • 5,721 Posts
    • 8,025 Thanks
    deannatrois
    What the dispute service has listed is minimum standard evidence. As already stated, it is helpful for you to also state that the damage to patio door is not likely to be due to slamming is (there any crack damage to patio doors?), the carpet and tiles were in poor condition when you moved in and old, you lived there for five years and none of the items were new when you moved in so you should not have to pay for new replacements now. You can say one tile can be replaced etc etc. The condition of the carpet at time of move in and fact you lived there five years on top of that indicates the carpet is at the end of its useful life and you should not have to replace.

    Decorating is betterment as you lived there five years.
    • bouicca21
    • By bouicca21 1st Sep 18, 9:34 AM
    • 4,087 Posts
    • 6,523 Thanks
    bouicca21
    If you have photos upload those too. When I wet through the deposit scheme I uploaded every last piece of evidence I had. You get one chance, make the best of it.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 1st Sep 18, 9:48 AM
    • 26,107 Posts
    • 70,523 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    Please make sure you're actually disputing this and not just agreeing to compromise as your previous correspondence indicates. You have already been paying for wear and tear in your rent. Your landlord really is taking the proverbial. I'm sure if you want the write your statement out, then the guys here will read and help you with any amendments.

    Just a detail from me on the lights.

    It's something called the IP rating of a light fitting that is important. In a bathroom it's about how protective the casing of the light fitting is to water splashes. The higher the number, the more protective it is.

    You're right that the bulb has nothing to do with it. (Nor the voltage as you told the LL)

    It sounds like even the repair man is trying it on. There are things called 'IP rating zones' and you'll find a drawing of them online. In a kitchen, the taps are so far from the ceiling that you don't need a higher rating, a normal fitting is fine. Even in a bathroom they don't all need to be higher rated and in some bathrooms none need to be.

    More than a bit boring, but I never let these things to chance. The more you can explain to refute their claims, whilst remaining completely on point, the more chance you have of winning. It is not the bulb and the light fitting is entirely the LLs responsibility.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • mr120
    • By mr120 1st Sep 18, 1:51 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    mr120
    The claimed amounts, descriptions the LL used when claiming using DPS were different to those in the original email I put in the OP; for example he took out the warped door price/damage.
    Can he add those back in for the dispute(providing his evidence) and should I provide notes in the statement for all the original things, or just those claimed upon through DPS?

    Thanks for all the advice, i'll be sure to make a detailed report.
    Regarding more evidence, unfortunately the only evidence I have is check in and out, as we were no longer living there when deductions were made.
    • bouicca21
    • By bouicca21 1st Sep 18, 2:37 PM
    • 4,087 Posts
    • 6,523 Thanks
    bouicca21
    I'd detail and refute the original claim with evidence. He might reinstate that claim and even if he doesn't it's evidence of exaggeration.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 3rd Sep 18, 2:20 AM
    • 1,011 Posts
    • 892 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    Ohhh...........my builder explained that the bulb above / near my shower.....was a upgraded design. The bulb is the same as I have changed it. I honestly don't think they are much more in cost. The design is very similar to the others but is different.
    • mr120
    • By mr120 21st Nov 18, 5:05 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    mr120
    OK, thought I'd reply now the process finally finished!..! Huge delays at DPS.

    So the LL claim was for 1143.50 ( damage 733.50 | redecoration 410 )
    I agreed to 85 before adjudication ( damage 35 | redecoration 50 ).

    DPS decision 68 ( damage 15 | redecoration 53 )

    So I feel good about this, only paying an additional 68 instead of the LL requested 1143.50 (minus my agreed 85) and so will be getting a large amount of the deposit back.
    Now I just have to hope the LL is just happy to move on from this, after 2 or more months waiting.
    • lookstraightahead
    • By lookstraightahead 21st Nov 18, 5:23 PM
    • 621 Posts
    • 600 Thanks
    lookstraightahead
    Congratulations! Very pleased to hear it. I was on the receiving end a few years ago as a tenant but I paid up so this makes me feel better too.
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