Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • mr120
    • By mr120 10th Aug 18, 1:31 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 9Thanks
    mr120
    End of Tenancy - 1800 bill.. please provide advice?
    • #1
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:31 PM
    End of Tenancy - 1800 bill.. please provide advice? 10th Aug 18 at 1:31 PM
    Hello,

    UPDATE:

    OK, thought I'd reply now the process finally finished!..! Huge delays at DPS.

    So the LL claim was for 1143.50 ( damage 733.50 | redecoration 410 )
    I agreed to 85 before adjudication ( damage 35 | redecoration 50 ).

    DPS decision 68 ( damage 15 | redecoration 53 )

    So I feel good about this, only paying an additional 68 instead of the LL requested 1143.50 (minus my agreed 85) and so will be getting a large amount of the deposit back.
    Now I just have to hope the LL is just happy to move on from this, after 2 or more months waiting.


    We ended a 5 year tenancy with a large bill after never missing payments and spending 500 on cleaning!


    - We singed a small mark on a carpet, we will happily help pay for replacement, but he is saying we can claim no deduction for wear and tear (5 year tenancy), is this true?
    - He says the tiler says the tile cant be replaced on its own and needs to be all replaced, we small scratched one black floor tile (not crack) - these are real tiles with groute between them, can he ask for us to pay for everything to be retiled?
    - The paint is a single coat white unwashable, I am ok to help pay to repaint, but is 400 for a 2.3m x 2.6m room not high? and should we be paying 50%..?
    - He says we need to replace 3 'standard' bulbs with 'kitchin/bathroom' grade bulbs? they are LED spotlights.. is there such a thing as kitchin grade bulbs?
    - The vent fell down, its a vent cover not a machine, just needs gluing up, is 150 normal?
    - The door to a patio is warped, so is stiff to open, he claims we must have slammed it - we never opened the door as it opens onto a main road and has spiders outside (arachnaphob). The checkout says they dont know how it could have happened. What can we do about this, anything?

    Carpets 750 (actual quote for 2 rooms) speak to the checkout people or small claims that due to the burns etc a wear tear deduction will not apply as we are now forced to replace this carpet -rather than keep it which was our intention
    Tiling 400 less 25% wear & tear = 300
    Door 250
    Painting 400 less 50% 200
    Lights 3 replacements 75
    Kitchen Vent 150
    Last edited by mr120; 21-11-2018 at 5:10 PM.
Page 1
    • elsien
    • By elsien 10th Aug 18, 1:34 PM
    • 17,762 Posts
    • 45,040 Thanks
    elsien
    • #2
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:34 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:34 PM
    He's trying to pull a fast one. Put a dispute in to whichever scheme is holding the deposit.
    Do you have a full inventory with photos when you checked in and out?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • mr120
    • By mr120 10th Aug 18, 1:38 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    mr120
    • #3
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:38 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:38 PM
    We do have photo inventory and checkout.
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 10th Aug 18, 1:48 PM
    • 1,005 Posts
    • 1,225 Thanks
    need an answer
    • #4
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:48 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:48 PM
    Dispute with the relevant deposit agency,not the LL or the agent but the scheme holding your deposit.


    You will be asked to supply supporting information to validate your claim as will the LL and from there the deposit holder will adjudicate whether the amounts claimed are fair.
    in S 41 T 64 F 66
    out S 60 T 69 F 78
    2017 -32
    • mr120
    • By mr120 10th Aug 18, 1:50 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    mr120
    • #5
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:50 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:50 PM
    Thanks for the current replies. I appreciate I need to go through the deposit adjudicator, im just trying to work out if some of the things he is asking are even real.. such as 'kitchen grade' lights, and that because its a singe it cannot have 5 years deducted from its lifespan in replacement costs.
    • Grezz24
    • By Grezz24 10th Aug 18, 1:52 PM
    • 189 Posts
    • 234 Thanks
    Grezz24
    • #6
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:52 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:52 PM
    another landlord trying to pull a fast one with their tenants deposit. I know there are landlords out there but they seem few and far between!
    • elsien
    • By elsien 10th Aug 18, 1:57 PM
    • 17,762 Posts
    • 45,040 Thanks
    elsien
    • #7
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:57 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:57 PM
    Have you seen this?

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=67759912&postcount=3

    Read what it says about fair wear and tear, and betterment.

    If you've been in for 5 years and it's never been painted then if it's normal day to day marks on the walls that should be factored in as part of the ongoing costs between tenancies and I wouldn't be expecting to pay anything towards that.
    Last edited by elsien; 10-08-2018 at 2:02 PM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • need an answer
    • By need an answer 10th Aug 18, 1:58 PM
    • 1,005 Posts
    • 1,225 Thanks
    need an answer
    • #8
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:58 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:58 PM
    Thanks for the current replies. I appreciate I need to go through the deposit adjudicator, im just trying to work out if some of the things he is asking are even real.. such as 'kitchen grade' lights, and that because its a singe it cannot have 5 years deducted from its lifespan in replacement costs.
    Originally posted by mr120
    my point is its not up to you to work out what is real that's what the process of making a claim will establish using a set of criteria that has been used many times before.

    Wear and tear can become a very subjective and indeed emotive issue when discussed between LL and tenant.That layer is removed when it comes down to a deposit adjudication and things become much more factual,so submit your evidence via photos etc and follow that process.

    Its really not worth trying to second guess anything via forums everyone will have a differing opinion and we cant see your evidence or that of the LL.

    In answer to your question over a "kitchen grade light",what was fitted and described in the check in inventory?

    Bulbs are generally regarded as the tenant responsibility and as such when you leave the property you should have the same grade bulb in as was originally documented.

    You can be charged to replace back to check in inventory standard if you have changed the bulbs for anything different.

    out of interest you mention a carpet and a burn...but the original that you quote says "carpets " and burns...is there a reason for 2 carpets to be replaced and what size are these burn mark/s...are they in an obvious place (say the middle of the carpet) or less obvious in an alcove or at an edge?

    Just curious.
    Last edited by need an answer; 10-08-2018 at 2:13 PM.
    in S 41 T 64 F 66
    out S 60 T 69 F 78
    2017 -32
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 10th Aug 18, 2:18 PM
    • 1,815 Posts
    • 671 Thanks
    sevenhills
    • #9
    • 10th Aug 18, 2:18 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Aug 18, 2:18 PM
    He says the tiler says the tile cant be replaced on its own and needs to be all replaced, we small scratched one black floor tile (not crack) - these are real tiles with groute between them, can he ask for us to pay for everything to be retiled?
    Originally posted by mr120

    If they can get a replacement tile, I don't see why it alone cannot be replaced.
    It could be difficult, if it is in a corner.

    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 10th Aug 18, 2:56 PM
    • 1,839 Posts
    • 1,601 Thanks
    Carrot007
    - We singed a small mark on a carpet, we will happily help pay for replacement, but he is saying we can claim no deduction for wear and tear (5 year tenancy), is this true?
    Originally posted by mr120

    Utter nonsense. it it was a bottom of the range carpet I would say it's now done and you owe nothing. Other than that maybe 50% or less.




    - He says the tiler says the tile cant be replaced on its own and needs to be all replaced, we small scratched one black floor tile (not crack) - these are real tiles with groute between them, can he ask for us to pay for everything to be retiled?
    Originally posted by mr120

    Myabe the tiler did. However he needs a better tiler. Even if the tiles are no longer available (more likely) he needs to find something acceptable and not replace all. Unless he wants to, but he can charge you for that one and the labour (probably half as much as replaceing everything in laboutr). I did one in my old kitchen. And that was with maybe 1mm bad gaps at one side! It's not hard and I don't have a clue! (Drill in centre after applying masking tape) Crack it and pull up from centre, very simple, sounds like he has a bodger that does not know how to vlook on youtube)





    - The paint is a single coat white unwashable, I am ok to help pay to repaint, but is 400 for a 2.3m x 2.6m room not high? and should we be paying 50%..?
    Originally posted by mr120

    Maybe in central London that would be reasonable? I'd say maybe 50 depending on how old it was and how much it cost (it sounds cheapo 50 may be too high).




    - He says we need to replace 3 'standard' bulbs with 'kitchin/bathroom' grade bulbs? they are LED spotlights.. is there such a thing as kitchin grade bulbs?
    Originally posted by mr120

    No such thing. The housing is what needs to be waterproof (in the bathroom anyway). What are they. Gu10's? If Halogen then you should ower nothing as they die every 3 months. I have used LED's from ASDA for the last 3 years and none have dies. Maybe 5 for 2.




    - The vent fell down, its a vent cover not a machine, just needs gluing up, is 150 normal?
    Originally posted by mr120

    Vent plate cover? No it should not be glued. Screwed in properly. If it was glued his issue and you should owe nothing. If it can be fixed properly maybe 20. Probably same if need a new one!





    - The door to a patio is warped, so is stiff to open, he claims we must have slammed it - we never opened the door as it opens onto a main road and has spiders outside (arachnaphob). The checkout says they dont know how it could have happened. What can we do about this, anything?
    Originally posted by mr120

    He needs better evidence of what occured! UPVC? If so slamming cannot warp. Heat however can. South facing? And boo, spiders are you friends in the house. They deal with the nasties for you!




    Carpets 750 (actual quote for 2 rooms) speak to the checkout people or small claims that due to the burns etc a wear tear deduction will not apply as we are now forced to replace this carpet -rather than keep it which was our intention
    Originally posted by mr120

    Deductions for use always apply. He can charge for burns but not betterment and can leave it there for the next people if he does not want to change it. No one is forcing him.




    Is the prices duplicates?
    • ric1982
    • By ric1982 10th Aug 18, 3:07 PM
    • 190 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    ric1982
    What is the expected age of the carpet? Was it brand new when you moved in? If it is now 10 years old for e.g. then you could argue that it needs to be replaced by now isn't it?!
    • mr120
    • By mr120 10th Aug 18, 4:26 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    mr120
    @carrot007:

    Thanks for the reply - Yeah the patio door is UPVC, and yeah it was south facing I believe - good to know that it could have been the heat then! As we really didn't understand how it happened.
    When this goes to TDS, will they have understanding of things like UPVC cant be warped by slamming, it is most likely heat warp or will I need to use an expert to state this to TDS?

    What do you mean 'are the prices duplicates'?

    @ric1982 I believe we moved into a new build, so at this point i estimate ~5 - 5.5 years old
    Last edited by mr120; 10-08-2018 at 4:43 PM.
    • ric1982
    • By ric1982 10th Aug 18, 5:34 PM
    • 190 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    ric1982
    I would ask them proof of carpet's age. Because from that you can determine how much betterment you/they can claim.
    • saver_ali
    • By saver_ali 10th Aug 18, 8:02 PM
    • 48 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    saver_ali
    I have every sympathy with you! We have an almost identical situation with my son's landlord from a student let. They have refused to use the DPS resolution services, so we will have to go to court. I'm not hijacking your post (I will start my own thread when the time is right) but I will be following this with interest. Good luck!
    • Trixsie1989
    • By Trixsie1989 10th Aug 18, 8:36 PM
    • 485 Posts
    • 501 Thanks
    Trixsie1989
    How much is your actual deposit?
    The deposit adjudicator can only award upto the amount of the deposit anyway so he'll come unstuck there with costing. But it is very likely that they would side with you and award him nothing. The law lies in favour of tenants and the landlord has to prove Everything implicitly before they get a penny. It takes ages to go through the deposit people but well worth it when you get your money back
    Debt free finally
    First house purchase ... 2018
    • Trixsie1989
    • By Trixsie1989 10th Aug 18, 8:37 PM
    • 485 Posts
    • 501 Thanks
    Trixsie1989
    I have every sympathy with you! We have an almost identical situation with my son's landlord from a student let. They have refused to use the DPS resolution services, so we will have to go to court. I'm not hijacking your post (I will start my own thread when the time is right) but I will be following this with interest. Good luck!
    Originally posted by saver_ali
    Didn't think you could refuse to use the resolution services? Surely that looks bad on the landlord?
    Debt free finally
    First house purchase ... 2018
    • elsien
    • By elsien 10th Aug 18, 8:50 PM
    • 17,762 Posts
    • 45,040 Thanks
    elsien
    Apparently you can.
    Previous thread here.
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5601593
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • wesleyad
    • By wesleyad 11th Aug 18, 12:29 AM
    • 353 Posts
    • 293 Thanks
    wesleyad
    Didn't think you could refuse to use the resolution services? Surely that looks bad on the landlord?
    Originally posted by Trixsie1989
    Yes you can, we had a LL try it on us. Obviously going to court is a big step so they try to bully you by not accepting the ADR. We said bring it on, at which point they gave in and awarded entire amount back. From what we've heard the courts will basically throw it out for taking the !!!!. There's absolutely no reason I can think of for not going through ADR except to try and bully the tenant.

    OP just go to the deposit service. Keep everything factual. Try to back up with evidence (photos etc). Don't say stuff like "they didn't fix a leaky tap for 3 months etc" just keep it all relevant to the deductions.
    • stator
    • By stator 11th Aug 18, 12:46 AM
    • 6,645 Posts
    • 4,494 Thanks
    stator
    Dispute the whole deduction and let the deposit protection scheme work out what is fair.

    Don't try and negotiate with landlords or agents, they are all scammers.
    Just dispute it all.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • mr120
    • By mr120 12th Aug 18, 5:40 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    mr120
    After receiving a new email from LL I have a few quick questions:

    - Is it my responsibility to find a better quote for painting and tiling if we don't want to pay his estimates or is that all on him to do (400 each before wear and tear) / something arbitration will just handle?
    - Is his point about carpet being fully on us still bogus?
    Still sounds like we will take it all to arbitration.

    His latest response to my email, his responses in red:

    - Please do get invoices, but do bear in mind the replacements must be same quality and value as the originals or the deduction must account for the original value and quality.
    Totally agree and this what we are doing and in everyones interest to keep the price as low as possible
    - Regarding carpets, this may be betterment? So we wont be paying the full amount but a % based on estimated life (usually 5-10 years for carpets) - actual life (~5 years).
    I am only going what I have been advised by lawyer and the Inventory comapny - who state that when you are forced to replace the carpet (rather than leave it for an additional 5-7 yrs Then you can claim the full amount - talk to the inventory company
    - The lights are the correct lights, the difference between a standard spotlight and a bathroom spotlight is the fixture voltage not the bulb.
    Repair man Letting agent sent round said that bathroom and Kitchen bulbs a) need protector in place and are a set specification . Current ones need replacing as cant be let as against the standard
    - With research, scratches on the tiles would not require us to pay for them all to be replaced, only the 1 or 2 that ended up scratched + 50% of labour costs.
    Give me the details of a tiler who can do this please - as the expert sent round said it was not possible to remove 2 tiles in the center
    - Painting the room is fine but that evaluation sounds very high for a small room in a few coats of non-washable white paint.
    Again just going by the verbal quote ( of the person the letting agent sent round) - DO you have another firm you would prefer me to use, as still waiting for written quote
    We do want to help out as we understand that we caused some damage through regular use - but your estimates seem very high.
    As I said just going by verbal estimates at this stage and will take off wear % as advised by letting agent/ inventory company who know what is fair to claim

    We will have more idea when the quotes come in but honestly still felt that my original offer (of 1k which is now off the table) was overly optimistic - but lets wait till I have these. Yet as I said please email the details of any firm who will come over to repalce two centrally located tiles and I'll get them over

    (We accidentally forgot to cancel our standing order so he had 1000 extra from us which he held ransom saying he will return half if we accept his offer of taking 1000 bill) - till his lawyer told him to return it quickly..)
    Last edited by mr120; 12-08-2018 at 5:45 PM.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,112Posts Today

6,626Users online

Martin's Twitter