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  • FIRST POST
    • sky1234
    • By sky1234 9th Aug 18, 11:04 PM
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    sky1234
    Letter before court action, Euro Parking Services - Uni student, away from home.
    • #1
    • 9th Aug 18, 11:04 PM
    Letter before court action, Euro Parking Services - Uni student, away from home. 9th Aug 18 at 11:04 PM
    I had been away from home for quite some time as I am a full-time uni student. I have had a lot of letters to go through with most just being general stuff.

    I then came across three letters from Euro Parking Services, two of which were parking charge notices and the last one being a letter before court action. They are now asking for 160, when it originally was 60.

    I believe this is unfair as when I was parked, my engine was on and so were my lights. It says the reasoning was "Not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space". The time of issue states 12:53. This particular day was raining very heavily and visibility was also very poor and because of this my lights were on, my lights would never be on in the day time. I also believe I was there for no longer than 5 minutes as I had just went to Tesco to get some Lunch. I genuinely cannot afford 160, again as I am a Full time Uni student.

    I have read the newbies thread: I didn't receive a windscreen PCN, ECP are part of the IPC and are registered with the DVLA. The first letter was sent in Jan, the most recent one (the letter before court action) is dated 7th August but there are no photographic evidence on this letter. It just says where, the charge amount and the most worrying

    "We refer you to the practice direction for pre-action conduct under the civil procedure rules and in particular paragraph 13-16 of the same, which deals with the court's powers to impose sanction for any failure to comply.

    We now require you to pay the full amount within 14 days. Alternatively, please prove an acknowledgment of receipt of this letter and a full written response within 14 days of this letter. Your response should provide your full account of the circumstances that led to the charge being imposed and if it was not you driving, include confirmation as to who the drivers of the vehicles was/were at the time of each incident and a current address for service of each drive that you name.

    Unless you provide us with a satisfactory response, we will instruct our solicitors (Gladstones) to commence proceedings against you without further notice in order to recover the amount due and associated costs."

    Should I ignore this? I have heard of people ignoring these things but I really can't do so as I am too paranoid and received a great shock after opening the letters. Is there anyone that could help me with these? I have not replied to the firm as doing so apparently makes it a contract?
    I don't think the template on the newbies thread would work in this case, hence why I made a new thread.
    Thank you.
    Last edited by sky1234; 09-08-2018 at 11:07 PM.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th Aug 18, 11:17 PM
    • 19,689 Posts
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    Redx
    • #2
    • 9th Aug 18, 11:17 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Aug 18, 11:17 PM
    if it is a formal LBC according to the PaP oct 2017 (and not a letter from a debt collector like DRP or ZZPS etc), then yes construct a rebuttal as explained in post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread

    on a side note

    what you think of as "fair" or not is irrelevant


    sitting with the engine and lights on in "waiting" mode is also not relevant , it is time on site and not parking according to the rules of the private site that generates a charge, these urban myths about being exempt on private land if the engine is running are fiction


    the ability to pay (or not) is also irrelevant when it comes to a court case for an unpaid invoice

    the fact that originally it was 60 and is now 160 is also irrelevant

    all that is relevant is what a judge says in court , so if you lost in court then the original charge (which may have been 100 with a 405 discount for early payment) is relevant , plus about say 75 in court fees and costs etc, so typically about 175 if a judge says so and you lost in your local small claims court

    there are no easy answers to this so stop looking for them


    the claimant is alleging you owe them money, they have the option of taking you to the small claims court within 6 years of the contravention , and a judge will not be interested in your inability to pay due to being skint

    if you IGNORE this letetr then as stated on that leeer its likely that GLADRAGS will issue an MCOL , if you fail to acknowledge and defend the MCOL promptly it will result in a default CCJ against you


    so IGNORE it at your peril, but also assume that GLADRAGS will be issuing a court claim within 4 to 8 weeks or so
    Last edited by Redx; 09-08-2018 at 11:21 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 9th Aug 18, 11:26 PM
    • 9,949 Posts
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    KeithP
    • #3
    • 9th Aug 18, 11:26 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Aug 18, 11:26 PM
    Yes, you are too late to be using the appeal template.

    That letter is not a compliant LBC.

    A compliant LBC will give you 30 days to respond.

    Perhaps you should respond with one of the sample robust LBC responses from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

    Pick one and adjust it to your circumstances.
    .
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Aug 18, 11:38 PM
    • 19,848 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    • #4
    • 9th Aug 18, 11:38 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Aug 18, 11:38 PM
    my engine was on and so were my lights.
    Why isn't that 'parking'?

    I also believe I was there for no longer than 5 minutes as I had just went to Tesco to get some Lunch.
    A tad contradictory to your previous statement (unless you leave the car running while you go into Tesco?).

    I genuinely cannot afford 160, again as I am a Full time Uni student.
    Irrelevant, I'm afraid.

    ECP are part of the IPC
    No they're not.

    Euro Parking Services
    But they are.

    Which one - vitally important. One will possibly to take you to court, the other one, unlikely.

    http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/Euro_Parking_Services.html

    http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/Euro_Car_Parks.html

    Should I ignore this?
    You can do if you want to run the risk of a default judgment against you and a life changing trashing of your credit rating for 6 years at a time in your life when you may be looking for such things as a mortgage loan.

    I have not replied to the firm as doing so apparently makes it a contract?
    I hope your research work in your chosen academic studies delivers better results than this nonsense. Where did that come from?

    I don't think the template on the newbies thread would work in this case, hence why I made a new thread.
    Post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky is specifically designed to deal with the entire court process - from the Letter Before Court Action/Claim to the actual court hearing - written by experts in the field, including practising solicitors.

    It doesn't look like your research skills have been to the fore so far.

    Deal with that LBC as per post #2 of the sticky.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • sky1234
    • By sky1234 10th Aug 18, 1:43 AM
    • 5 Posts
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    sky1234
    • #5
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:43 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:43 AM
    Thank you for your responses and your advice. I had just seen these letters not long ago in the evening and just had a quick browse of everything and started asking people I know for help, but yes "umkomaas" I should have researched better rather than asking people. It is not ECP, not sure why I wrote that, it is definitely Euro Parking Services.
    To be honest, I just don't want the worry of going to court as this company seems like the type that do so (according to parkingappeals.info) and i've also never been to court either...
    My question is, would they even consider reducing the amount of 160 as I had genuinely not seen the letters up until now?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Aug 18, 8:13 AM
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    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 10th Aug 18, 8:13 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Aug 18, 8:13 AM
    My question is, would they even consider reducing the amount of 160 as I had genuinely not seen the letters up until now?
    They'll want every drop of blood I'm afraid.

    To be honest, I just don't want the worry of going to court as this company seems like the type that do so (according to parkingappeals.info) and i've also never been to court either...
    Other than pay them what they want (and no one here advises that), there is nothing you can do to avoid this becoming a court case if EPS (thanks for confirming the correct name) decide that is the route they are going to take in their attempt to part you from your money.

    But this isn't a criminal court - no wigs, gowns or jury, just the Judge in a business suit, you and an EPS rep sitting around a table to thrash it all out. Even if you lose at court, the cost to you would be little more (possibly even less) than their current demand.

    Of course you will need to develop a strong defence, but that help is available here on the forum - and we have great success in court where individuals take the full advice available here and apply it during their journey through to the hearing. If it does get to court, see it as a learning experience, while fighting the pariahs trying to snatch your money.

    You're in the position of wait to see what they next do, but you're caught in the spider's web I'm afraid, and the only likely escape is if a Judge pulls you out of it.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Aug 18, 9:21 AM
    • 10,254 Posts
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    The Deep
    • #7
    • 10th Aug 18, 9:21 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Aug 18, 9:21 AM
    To be honest, I just don't want the worry of going to court as this company seems like the type that do so (according to parkingappeals.info) and i've also never been to court either...

    A County Court case is no big deal, it ia a commercial dispute with a judge as the adjudicator. Everyone should go to court, either as claimant or defendant, at least once in their life.

    You have now been co-opted into the game that they play, it is s scam and they use lies, threats, and intimidation to line their pockets, but their claim is usually based on e chimera, that you breached a contract and damaged them. Let a judge decide whether this is true or not.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • sky1234
    • By sky1234 10th Aug 18, 10:42 AM
    • 5 Posts
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    sky1234
    • #8
    • 10th Aug 18, 10:42 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Aug 18, 10:42 AM
    Thank you for your replies.
    If it does get taken to court, I wouldn't have a clue to say apart from saying that I was away and read the letters late. Their was really bad visibility and I genuinely could not see the parked bays at the time as it was raining else I wouldn't have had my lights on.
    How sure are you that the payment would only be a little more or a little less than 160 as it says on the letter "upon the commencement of legal proceedings, the amount we will claim will increase due to court costs, solicitor's costs and statutory interest."
    If I do lose, does it then become a CCJ, if not at what stage does it?
    Thanks again.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Aug 18, 10:48 AM
    • 10,254 Posts
    • 10,145 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #9
    • 10th Aug 18, 10:48 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Aug 18, 10:48 AM
    If I do lose, does it then become a CCJ, if not at what stage does it?
    Thanks again.


    This is a question which you should be able to answer by using a search engine. Also, you will find on this board several example of a defence. Simply adapt what others have previously written. It is not rocket science.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Aug 18, 10:59 AM
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    Umkomaas
    If it does get taken to court, I wouldn't have a clue to say
    Of course you don't right now, but if you want to save yourself 160, you'll have to start researching and learning how to prepare yourself for it.

    How sure are you that the payment would only be a little more or a little less than 160
    As sure as anyone could be in five and half years of advising here. They will try to add other things like 25 court filing fee, 25 court hearing fee and 50 solicitor costs (sols costs only if they can prove payment). It's the 60 they've added to the 100 you attack in court. There's no justification for it, you have to get them to prove how they've got there.

    But the main objective is to beat them at court, then you'll pay 0 - and you might get some small costs back from them. But it's an uncertain world once you get into the field of litigation.

    If I do lose, does it then become a CCJ, if not at what stage does it?
    Only if you don't pay what the Judge orders by the deadline he/she gives. Learn how it all works here:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5849106
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • sky1234
    • By sky1234 10th Aug 18, 1:32 PM
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    • 0 Thanks
    sky1234
    I understand now, thanks again. Your replies are making me feel a bit more at ease. I do feel that extra 60 is very unjustified as it gives no reason at all for why they have increased the charge.

    So a compliant letter before court would give 30 days notice, this just says that I should pay the full amount within 14 days or a written response thus meaning this isn't a LBC at all despite it saying "Letter before court action" at the top.
    Should my next step be to respond to them? If so what template would be best to send?

    I have also took a look at the pictures of my vehicle again and it seems as though someone went outside and took a photo of my vehicle, I can tell because it seems like someone has used flash and there is reflection of it on my bumper and the rear lights that were on. This should back up my claim of their being rain and poor visibility at 12:50pm in the afternoon, right?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Aug 18, 1:42 PM
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    • 31,343 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    So a compliant letter before court would give 30 days notice, this just says that I should pay the full amount within 14 days or a written response thus meaning this isn't a LBC at all despite it saying "Letter before court action" at the top.
    Should my next step be to respond to them? If so what template would be best to send?
    If it says 'Letter Before Court Action' you treat it exactly as that; it needs a formal response. Whether it complies with the PAP needs to be challenged in the response.

    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/debt-pap.pdf

    Anyway, no more random questions please, as everything you need to know about the whole court procedure - from the LBC (where you are now) right through to the actual hearing - is contained in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2, written by court experts including parts (and some templates) by practising solicitors.

    Please spend plenty of time understanding all of it, because the more knowledge you gain from your study of it, the more likely you will fight this charge off.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 10th Aug 18, 1:51 PM
    • 9,949 Posts
    • 10,253 Thanks
    KeithP
    This video may help:
    .
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