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    • superfishh
    • By superfishh 9th Aug 18, 6:13 PM
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    superfishh
    smart parking no grace period?
    • #1
    • 9th Aug 18, 6:13 PM
    smart parking no grace period? 9th Aug 18 at 6:13 PM
    i need to appeal to POPLA within the next few days. 16mins over stay in 2hr free stay in retail park. reading grace periods in BPA code thought all would be well with my appeal but i see smart parking state 2 hour free stay is calculated from point of entry to exit and they state that on their t&c's in car park, although only one sign with t&c's all the other signs refer to that, any comments help advise would be appreciated
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Aug 18, 6:42 PM
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    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 9th Aug 18, 6:42 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Aug 18, 6:42 PM
    You need to make sure your 2 Grace Periods come to at least a total of 16 minutes between them both. So on entry, 'x' minutes wheeling around the car park searching for a suitable space (if you've a large vehicle emphasise the need to find one wide enough in a car park where they are at a premium), parking the vehicle, getting out of the vehicle, going to find a sign with the details (state what you say above about none of the signs but one had the full t&cs). Having read the sign and agreed its terms, decided to stay.

    Then on leaving, 'y' minutes negotiate the vehicle out of the congested car park then queueing to eventually feed on to the main road to finally exit.

    All above undertaken by 'the driver', no other descriptor (no I, me, myself or my partner or my son/daughter - just 'the driver').

    'x'+'y' = 16 minutes (minimum). A minimum of 10 minutes before and 10 minutes after parking are provided by the BPA Code of Practice.

    Check out exactly what the Code of Practice says about Grace Periods (section 13), because you will be quoting that to POPLA.

    https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/AOS_Code_of_Practice_January_2018.pdf
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 09-08-2018 at 6:45 PM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • superfishh
    • By superfishh 9th Aug 18, 7:02 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    superfishh
    • #3
    • 9th Aug 18, 7:02 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Aug 18, 7:02 PM
    hi, thanks for your reply. in my initial appeal direct to smart parking i pretty much said (regrettably) i was the driver. I think its only right and for the reasons you advised me that a grace period should be applicable here but its the wording in smart parkings t&c's that maximum free stay (not parking) which is calculated from entrance to exit must be adhered to at all times. max stay time they call it not parking, so they have the upper hand with POPLA on this point?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Aug 18, 7:06 PM
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    Umkomaas
    • #4
    • 9th Aug 18, 7:06 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Aug 18, 7:06 PM
    How can you tell it's max stay without first reading the signs, so there's your first 10 minutes taken care of. You can't possibly know that as you drive past the ANPR camera.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • superfishh
    • By superfishh 9th Aug 18, 7:34 PM
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    superfishh
    • #5
    • 9th Aug 18, 7:34 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Aug 18, 7:34 PM
    I have read some successful POPLA appeal's on grace periods where the assessor has commented on checking the signage t&c's when it stated parking time and upheld appeals for 16mins over but ive seen no examples of successful appeals when max stay time is calculated from point of entry to exit

    i was eating at the restaurant there for the 1st time and wasnt aware of entering reg number to exempt me when i was ushered into the restaurant.




    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 9th Aug 18, 7:41 PM
    • 11,225 Posts
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    KeithP
    • #6
    • 9th Aug 18, 7:41 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Aug 18, 7:41 PM
    i was eating at the restaurant there for the 1st time and wasnt aware of entering reg number to exempt me when i was ushered into the restaurant.
    Originally posted by superfishh
    Have you asked the restaurant to arrange for the ticket to be cancelled?

    Remind them that as parking is so expensive if one makes a slight mistake, you'll be unlikely to eat there again as you cannot take that risk. Of course you have warned all your family and friends too.
    .
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 9th Aug 18, 7:43 PM
    • 2,390 Posts
    • 2,918 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    • #7
    • 9th Aug 18, 7:43 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Aug 18, 7:43 PM
    I have read some successful POPLA appeal's on grace periods where the assessor has commented on checking the signage t&c's when it stated parking time and upheld appeals for 16mins over but ive seen no examples of successful appeals when max stay time is calculated from point of entry to exit

    i was eating at the restaurant there for the 1st time and wasnt aware of entering reg number to exempt me when i was ushered into the restaurant.



    Originally posted by superfishh
    so the available method of stating time of arrival was possibly 1/4 mile away from the car park?
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • superfishh
    • By superfishh 9th Aug 18, 7:51 PM
    • 6 Posts
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    superfishh
    • #8
    • 9th Aug 18, 7:51 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Aug 18, 7:51 PM
    yes i asked them they said they cannot help at all, the car park is also shared with Burger king.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Aug 18, 8:02 PM
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    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 9th Aug 18, 8:02 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Aug 18, 8:02 PM
    You seem to be finding too many reasons why this isn't going to work. If you can't believe in yourself to overcome the difficulties you are putting in your way, this is going to be an uphill struggle. I've given you everything I can on Grace Periods.

    If you don't think it's going to work, you're going to have to find other aspects that Smart fall short on. They are one of the easier ones to beat a POPLA.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • superfishh
    • By superfishh 10th Aug 18, 8:26 AM
    • 6 Posts
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    superfishh
    driver
    i pretty much said i was the driver but reading my 1st appeal to smart parking I did not actually specify about the driver so i could now state i was not the driver to POPLA as I had alcohol on this occasion and the driver went shopping on the retail park and she returned after my family meal when i made the call?
    • superfishh
    • By superfishh 10th Aug 18, 8:38 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    superfishh
    also after struggling to park, and then not seeing the only one sign with the t&c's on which was facing a different outlet could i argue a contrat was not formed? thanks for any help
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Aug 18, 9:07 AM
    • 10,963 Posts
    • 10,926 Thanks
    The Deep
    Often it can take you a long time to find a space, sometimes as long as 31 minutes, before you can even read the notice.

    Read this

    https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/03/waiting-for-space-is-not-parking.html

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Aug 18, 9:45 AM
    • 20,522 Posts
    • 32,440 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    i pretty much said i was the driver but reading my 1st appeal to smart parking I did not actually specify about the driver so i could now state i was not the driver to POPLA as I had alcohol on this occasion and the driver went shopping on the retail park and she returned after my family meal when i made the call?
    Originally posted by superfishh
    also after struggling to park, and then not seeing the only one sign with the t&c's on which was facing a different outlet could i argue a contrat was not formed? thanks for any help
    Originally posted by superfishh
    You need to get these and other points you might rely on clearly in your own mind. Dropping random 'thoughts' looking for answers is far too scattergun and random answers may not ultimately fit into the bigger picture.

    Read some other POPLA appeals - the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 and the POPLA Decisions sticky will have links to loads of successful appeals. Go through those as the basis for developing your own and put your draft up here for critique.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
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