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  • FIRST POST
    • Cliddy
    • By Cliddy 9th Aug 18, 5:07 PM
    • 186Posts
    • 18Thanks
    Cliddy
    A good cheap investment manager ?
    • #1
    • 9th Aug 18, 5:07 PM
    A good cheap investment manager ? 9th Aug 18 at 5:07 PM
    I've currently got a small to medium isa portfolio with fidelity. Because I'm fed up with them I want to look elsewhere for a manager. But have a couple of questions.

    I have no issue changing banks, utilities, insurance etc etc. but am a bit reluctant to risk the ISAs with a dodgy changeover.

    It would need to be reletively low cost fees.

    Also what happens if the new provider doesn't offer a particular scheme I've got , let's say for instance Fidelity China?

    Any advice appreciated.
Page 1
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 9th Aug 18, 5:18 PM
    • 8,242 Posts
    • 9,258 Thanks
    eskbanker
    • #2
    • 9th Aug 18, 5:18 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Aug 18, 5:18 PM
    A good cheap investment manager ?
    Originally posted by Cliddy
    Do you want a good one or a cheap one? I think from your post that you're looking for platforms rather than investment managers, in which case you can review options and costs at sites like:

    http://monevator.com/find-the-best-online-broker/
    http://www.comparefundplatforms.com/
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5583030

    Also what happens if the new provider doesn't offer a particular scheme I've got , let's say for instance Fidelity China?
    Originally posted by Cliddy
    You could try to persuade them to offer it, or leave it where it currently is (assuming you wouldn't be splitting current year ISA money, which is a no-no), or sell it and buy into something they do offer. At the risk of stating the obvious, the best thing to do is to research which platforms support your chosen investments in advance....
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 9th Aug 18, 5:48 PM
    • 95,423 Posts
    • 63,077 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #3
    • 9th Aug 18, 5:48 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Aug 18, 5:48 PM
    A good cheap investment manager ?
    Cheap or good?

    What do you mean by investment manager? Are you referring to someone that makes the investment selection for you or acts just as an administrator for your own decisions?

    Also what happens if the new provider doesn't offer a particular scheme I've got , let's say for instance Fidelity China?
    You wouldn't use an investment platform that doesn't offer the investments you want. It would be like buying a pedal bike and then moaning afterwards that there is no space to put the 3 other people that travel with you.

    The focus should be on what you need first. Then cost. Not the other way around.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Cliddy
    • By Cliddy 9th Aug 18, 6:22 PM
    • 186 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Cliddy
    • #4
    • 9th Aug 18, 6:22 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Aug 18, 6:22 PM
    Yes, sorry I wasn't clear. I was referring to a different platform not individual investment advice.

    I have about 25 ish different funds out of what is probably a choice of thousands.
    I was under the impression that not all platforms necessarily dealt with all the same number/types of funds.
    So when my ISA portfolio is transferred over from fidelity to company X, what happens when there is a mismatch, surely I can't just ask them to deal with a fund they have previously not dealt with ?
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 9th Aug 18, 6:30 PM
    • 95,423 Posts
    • 63,077 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #5
    • 9th Aug 18, 6:30 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Aug 18, 6:30 PM
    I was under the impression that not all platforms necessarily dealt with all the same number/types of funds.
    Whole of market wrap platforms have virtually the lot. 30,000 odd investment options.

    A small number still remain as just fund supermarkets but they are becoming fewer in number as time goes on. Most of them have converted or are converting to whole of market wrap platforms.

    So when my ISA portfolio is transferred over from fidelity to company X, what happens when there is a mismatch, surely I can't just ask them to deal with a fund they have previously not dealt with ?
    It wouldnt get to that stage.

    if you did a cash transfer, then you have to tell them the fund you want to purchase before you transfer. if it was not available, you would know before the transfer is started.

    if you did an in-specie transfer (or re-registration as it is sometimes known) then a fund supermarket would check it first. A whole of market wrap platform would just accept it.

    Nowadays, I would likely eliminate fund supermarket only from my research unless you are sticking to really basic investments. If you are someone that builds their own portfolio of funds (which it sounds like) then make sure its a whole of market wrap platform.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • lpgm
    • By lpgm 9th Aug 18, 6:45 PM
    • 248 Posts
    • 145 Thanks
    lpgm
    • #6
    • 9th Aug 18, 6:45 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Aug 18, 6:45 PM
    I have about 25 ish different funds
    Originally posted by Cliddy
    That's a lot. You could take this opportunity to trim your portfolio down.
    • Cliddy
    • By Cliddy 9th Aug 18, 6:48 PM
    • 186 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Cliddy
    • #7
    • 9th Aug 18, 6:48 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Aug 18, 6:48 PM
    Whole of market wrap platforms have virtually the lot. 30,000 odd investment options.

    A small number still remain as just fund supermarkets but they are becoming fewer in number as time goes on. Most of them have converted or are converting to whole of market wrap platforms.


    It wouldnt get to that stage.

    if you did a cash transfer, then you have to tell them the fund you want to purchase before you transfer. if it was not available, you would know before the transfer is started.

    if you did an in-specie transfer (or re-registration as it is sometimes known) then a fund supermarket would check it first. A whole of market wrap platform would just accept it.

    Nowadays, I would likely eliminate fund supermarket only from my research unless you are sticking to really basic investments. If you are someone that builds their own portfolio of funds (which it sounds like) then make sure its a whole of market wrap platform.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    Many thanks some good advice. Particularly how the funds could be transferred.
    I realise that I could cash in the ISAs (ensuring they stayed within an ISA envelope) then repurchase within the new platform. That to me sounds like the easiest (laziest) way! And perhaps manipulate/tune my holdings at the time
    • Cliddy
    • By Cliddy 9th Aug 18, 6:58 PM
    • 186 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Cliddy
    • #8
    • 9th Aug 18, 6:58 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Aug 18, 6:58 PM
    That's a lot. You could take this opportunity to trim your portfolio down.
    Originally posted by lpgm
    That's an interesting comment. I'm more than willing to learn. By the way, a certain tone can come over in these forums, so rest assured my following points are not intended to be critical.

    Why do you feel it's a lot? Surely the number is determined by the amount you have to invest, your risks levels etc etc.
    If I had 10 it's likely to be 1 fund if I had 1mill then it would be more than 25 ??
    My funds are scattered around the world (probably wildly), surely just a limited number of global funds is eggs in 1 basket.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 9th Aug 18, 7:06 PM
    • 8,242 Posts
    • 9,258 Thanks
    eskbanker
    • #9
    • 9th Aug 18, 7:06 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Aug 18, 7:06 PM
    Why do you feel it's a lot? Surely the number is determined by the amount you have to invest, your risks levels etc etc.
    If I had 10 it's likely to be 1 fund if I had 1mill then it would be more than 25 ??
    Originally posted by Cliddy
    You said you had a small to medium portfolio, whereas 25 would be an unusually large number for a pot that's below six figures, given the difficulties of keeping it balanced and the costs of buying and maintaining a portfolio of 25 funds, as well as the fundamental issue of identifying the right mix to cover all the relevant bases in that way.

    My funds are scattered around the world (probably wildly), surely just a limited number of global funds is eggs in 1 basket.
    Originally posted by Cliddy
    The whole point of a global multi-asset fund is to spread the eggs across many baskets!
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 9th Aug 18, 7:25 PM
    • 3,399 Posts
    • 2,734 Thanks
    Alexland
    Why do you feel it's a lot? Surely the number is determined by the amount you have to invest, your risks levels etc etc. If I had 10 it's likely to be 1 fund if I had 1mill then it would be more than 25 ??
    Originally posted by Cliddy
    With multi asset funds it is possible to cover all reasonable risk levels with a single fund solution. The only reason I spit my accounts and fund managers is for a greater proportion of FSCS protection but I have a couple of six-figure accounts holding a single fund each.

    Alex
    • OldMusicGuy
    • By OldMusicGuy 9th Aug 18, 7:29 PM
    • 591 Posts
    • 1,233 Thanks
    OldMusicGuy
    Why do you feel it's a lot? Surely the number is determined by the amount you have to invest, your risks levels etc etc.
    If I had 10 it's likely to be 1 fund if I had 1mill then it would be more than 25 ??
    My funds are scattered around the world (probably wildly), surely just a limited number of global funds is eggs in 1 basket.
    Originally posted by Cliddy
    The number of funds should be determined by your long term investment objectives and your approach to investing. There's no magic "rule of thumb". If you are using single sector funds, you will need to diversify more than if you are using funds of funds.

    For example, I have over 500K invested in three passive funds of funds. I am using the cheapest possible investment manager (me). That suits my investment strategy and objectives but my strategy is probably very different to yours, as I have just retired while I assume you still have some way to go.

    You seem to be suffering from the mistakes that many inexperienced investors make of randomly picking funds on a scattergun approach without thinking about your long term objectives and also understanding what all the different fund types and investment options are on a modern pension platform. I did the same btw. It's taken me about 5 years of learning, reading and participating in this forum to get to a point where I am comfortable with my strategy.

    You might want to take a look at my response on this thread (post 3): https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5879644
    Last edited by OldMusicGuy; 09-08-2018 at 7:36 PM.
    • talexuser
    • By talexuser 9th Aug 18, 7:44 PM
    • 2,490 Posts
    • 1,979 Thanks
    talexuser
    My number of funds are determined by not having much more than 50k in a single fund or house, the exception is Vanguard where there is more than 50k in several world area ETFs because I'm not certain that remaining active choices are worth their fees.
    • lpgm
    • By lpgm 9th Aug 18, 7:49 PM
    • 248 Posts
    • 145 Thanks
    lpgm
    My funds are scattered around the world (probably wildly), surely just a limited number of global funds is eggs in 1 basket.
    Originally posted by Cliddy
    If you've got loads of random active funds, there's a danger they start to cancel each other out, and you end up just tracking the markets. Can you plot your total portfolio performance on Fidelity? If you can, plot it against a global tracker fund and see how you're doing.
    • OldMusicGuy
    • By OldMusicGuy 9th Aug 18, 7:51 PM
    • 591 Posts
    • 1,233 Thanks
    OldMusicGuy
    My number of funds are determined by not having much more than 50k in a single fund or house, the exception is Vanguard where there is more than 50k in several world area ETFs because I'm not certain that remaining active choices are worth their fees.
    Originally posted by talexuser
    Just for the OP's benefit, I assume this is because current FSCS cover is 50K per investment house (I believe this is going up to 85K)? Personally, I am not bothered about this risk because my funds are held in the biggest, most reputable companies. But I know some forum members are concerned about this, and that's fair enough. So again an example of how your own strategy will impact your fund holdings.
    • Cliddy
    • By Cliddy 9th Aug 18, 8:14 PM
    • 186 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Cliddy
    Many thanks for a lot of constructive responses.

    By the way in response to one comment, I am also retired. Which will probably shock you even more with my comments!!!

    I'm still confused about the idea of only having 1 (ish) global find.
    Because I have various globals, I can see that they all have different performance results over the period that I have held them.
    Perhaps that means that I should transfer the funds from the lesser performers into the best ???
    But surely by that logic there would only be one fund anyone would go for based on survival of the fittest.
    I would suggest that if I asked you all what is the best global fund, I would get numerous responses.??
    And if I was to react to that, I would again have numerous funds!!!
    • Prism
    • By Prism 9th Aug 18, 8:24 PM
    • 508 Posts
    • 423 Thanks
    Prism
    I have three global funds which are all different from each other. The idea is to choose funds that serve a purpose rather than one that has performed well recently or a bunch of similar ones
    • masonic
    • By masonic 9th Aug 18, 8:32 PM
    • 9,989 Posts
    • 7,231 Thanks
    masonic
    I'm still confused about the idea of only having 1 (ish) global find.
    Because I have various globals, I can see that they all have different performance results over the period that I have held them.
    Perhaps that means that I should transfer the funds from the lesser performers into the best ???
    But surely by that logic there would only be one fund anyone would go for based on survival of the fittest.
    I would suggest that if I asked you all what is the best global fund, I would get numerous responses.??
    And if I was to react to that, I would again have numerous funds!!!
    Originally posted by Cliddy
    It seems that you fundamentally misunderstand what others have written.

    As you increase the number of funds you hold, your performance tends towards the average market performance, but minus the management fees you are paying each fund manager. But you can get average market returns at much lower cost and complexity if that's what you want.

    Either you aim for average market return as cheaply as possible, or you focus in on specific funds which you believe will outperform the average market return by a greater margin than the fees they charge, or which better represent your own personal objectives in terms of style and/or composition.

    No sensible investor would hold every fund that received positive commentary on a site like this.
    • OldMusicGuy
    • By OldMusicGuy 9th Aug 18, 8:49 PM
    • 591 Posts
    • 1,233 Thanks
    OldMusicGuy
    By the way in response to one comment, I am also retired. Which will probably shock you even more with my comments!!!
    Originally posted by Cliddy
    OK I am a bit surprised but that's good to know. It will impact your investment strategy, which you need to think clearly about. Are these ISAs just a bit of extra cash that you have or are they an important part of your retirement funds? Do you plan to use the money soon, perhaps to fund the gap to SP age, or are you holding them for long term growth? You need a plan before you can decide what are the most appropriate funds for your purposes.

    Perhaps that means that I should transfer the funds from the lesser performers into the best ???
    Originally posted by Cliddy
    Very bad idea and classic newbie mistake. Chasing funds based on how they did in the past. How do you know that a fund that "did well" last year will outperform others over however long you are going to hold the funds? You don't. Sophisticated investment managers and IFAs might have a better idea than most, and that's why you pay them.

    You need to make sure you have a mix of funds that meets your objectives. My objectives are simple: low cost, passive funds that minimize volatility and give me a return that matches or slightly beats inflation. I don't need growth but I want to reduce the impact of market downturns. That's why I chose the funds I did. You need to be able to articulate what you are trying to achieve to help you identify the most suitable funds.
    • Cliddy
    • By Cliddy 9th Aug 18, 9:18 PM
    • 186 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Cliddy
    OK I am a bit surprised but that's good to know. It will impact your investment strategy, which you need to think clearly about. Are these ISAs just a bit of extra cash that you have or are they an important part of your retirement funds? Do you plan to use the money soon, perhaps to fund the gap to SP age, or are you holding them for long term growth? You need a plan before you can decide what are the most appropriate funds for your purposes.


    Very bad idea and classic newbie mistake. Chasing funds based on how they did in the past. How do you know that a fund that "did well" last year will outperform others over however long you are going to hold the funds? You don't. Sophisticated investment managers and IFAs might have a better idea than most, and that's why you pay them.

    You need to make sure you have a mix of funds that meets your objectives. My objectives are simple: low cost, passive funds that minimize volatility and give me a return that matches or slightly beats inflation. I don't need growth but I want to reduce the impact of market downturns. That's why I chose the funds I did. You need to be able to articulate what you are trying to achieve to help you identify the most suitable funds.
    Originally posted by OldMusicGuy
    Thanks for this. I'm fully retired, company pension and SP. No debts. So money is for luxuries, travel and health type emergencies etc. So definitely not very long term.
    I suppose I too would be looking for secure growth, able to see through global upsets (Trump) and not expecting unreasonable returns.
    The problem is my current portfolio developed over the last 10 years or so has produced good returns based on my requirements above.
    So I ask myself why change. BUT ...... they were selected by me, so something must be wrong !!!
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 9th Aug 18, 9:41 PM
    • 11,069 Posts
    • 12,760 Thanks
    AnotherJoe

    Why do you feel it's a lot? Surely the number is determined by the amount you have to invest, your risks levels etc etc.
    If I had 10 it's likely to be 1 fund if I had 1mill then it would be more than 25 ??
    My funds are scattered around the world (probably wildly), surely just a limited number of global funds is eggs in 1 basket.
    Originally posted by Cliddy
    My answer. If you've got 25 funds ina small to medium sized investment, let's say under 100k, then the odds are you've created your own personal but more expensive global tracker.

    The other thing that comes up here often is that people have tiny amounts in some funds, let's say again in the context of your (my guess) 100k, under 1k, eg less than 1%, which is a bit pointless.

    And finally as others have posted, if you bought those with a strategy in mind and are keeping them all at 4% that's quite a lot of work, possibly with buy sell cost as well.

    If you are feeling bold, post them here.
    Last edited by AnotherJoe; 09-08-2018 at 9:45 PM.
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