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  • FIRST POST
    • Knapper
    • By Knapper 9th Aug 18, 4:57 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Knapper
    The Great Speed Awareness Course Scam
    • #1
    • 9th Aug 18, 4:57 PM
    The Great Speed Awareness Course Scam 9th Aug 18 at 4:57 PM
    So you got caught speeding a little, probably no great shakes, maybe doing anywhere from 31mph to 41mph in a 30mph limit (and yes they ARE pulling up people at 31mph !!!!) and they offered you an NSAC (National Speed Awareness Course).


    Sounds great. No points on your licence, no conviction and thus no insurance premium hike right?


    But what is really going on here . . .


    Let me break it down because like me, you've just become the latest victim of what is a MULTI-MILLION POUND SCAM.


    You see in days gone past you'd get stopped by a good old policeman standing at the side of the road. He's a man (or woman) and has judgement, intelligence and no great desire to penalise you unnecessarily. He would tell you your speed, check if you have a license, MOT, insurance and then depending on what speed you were doing and where it occurred he may, or may not, send you off with a caution. He could exercise judgement and sensible impartiality.


    Roll on a few years and now you have dedicated vans driving around whose sole purpose in life is to catch YOU doing anything from 1mph over the speed limit. You also have cameras everywhere. These cameras and people ARE NOT impartial, they don't exercise judgement, they simply record speed and ruthlessly generate Notices Of Intended Prosecution to those they catch.


    They are part of a huge machine which is the MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS I mentioned.


    You must understand that what they are doing is nothing whatsoever to do with speed reduction or engendering better driving skills in the nation. What they are doing is recruiting course participants for their MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS.

    Every participant on average will pay them £90 for the privilege of attending a 4 hour Speed Awareness Course (NSAC). The more participants they generate the more money the business earns.


    In 2017 there were some 1.2 million attendees of these courses. Do the math. That's over £100 MILLION POUNDS these fat cat private businesses are earning from hapless, easy target motorists.


    So what do people expect when they go on these courses?


    Well read a few reviews on the t'internet and you'll find tales of surprise and wonder. Where people thought they would be told off, patronised and subjected to films of horrific car crashes, there was instead much pleasantness and jolly humour and a bit of quizzing thrown in.


    Unfortunately, if you were one of those people who were surprised after attending an NSAC, then frankly you didn't/don't understand what the hell is going on.


    I will say it again, this is a MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS !
    Do you think such a business, as with any other business, would survive if it patronised it's customers and gave them an uncomfortable time? No of course not.


    So these parasitic companies welcome you with words of understanding.
    "We know you don't want to be here"
    they tell you with pseudo empathy and they give you 4 hours of relaxing presentation, group activity and quizzing.


    Understand that the people presenting do NOT work for these private firms operating this MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS. They are simply subcontracted presenters doing a simple job. They would, if you paid them the same £90 for 4 hours, give you a presentation on anything. Even how to best go to the toilet !!


    In the course I attended there were 24 people. Each paying £90. That's a tidy £2160 for the 4 hour session which equates to £540 per hour !!!!


    That's better than the Prime Minister !


    And for that these shameless parasites wouldn't even put on tea and coffee throughout that 4 hour period !


    Understand that the private companies, of which there are many, don't give a flying ***k about your driving habits. They are not in business to make you a better driver. They are in business to take £90 off as many people as they humanly can as quickly as they can before the entire system changes.


    The people at the top of this food chain are literally raking in £millions.


    Let me be clear though. The independent subcontracted presenters are genuine people. They do care and they mostly have good backgrounds. But that should not let you get distracted from the harsh reality that YOU have simply become the latest victim in what is simply a MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS SCAM. A scam perpetrated by the Police (who are getting about £35 out of every £90 paid) and by the private firms.


    If you simply took the fine and points on your license the money would go straight to the Treasury.


    Not long back the Admiral Group of insurance companies were allegedly starting to ask people during the renewal process whether they had attended Speed Awareness Courses and if so treated it just the same as a speeding ticket, upping your premiums. I was told by the course presenters that 4 weeks ago they changed this tack as they were losing business, presumably as people went to insurance companies that didn't ask that question. The problem is however that the insurance companies are NOT getting their cut from this MULTI-MILLION POUND SCAM so the most likely outcome is that they will ALL pretty soon club together and agree to ask about NSACs during the renewal process. Once they ALL start doing that and the public have nowhere else to turn, THEN this entire scam will crumble because for most people there will be no point at all attending a speed awareness course as your insurance will go up anyway. The only people who would attend then would be people with 6 or 9 points already on their license who would go on a course to prevent getting a driving ban.


    The future seems obvious to me. This MULTI-MILLION POUND SCAM has a very finite life span which is doubtless why they are going hell for leather right now to generate as many £90 paying course candidates as they can. The courses are literally fully booked for weeks and months already.


    Right now, the choice is simple. You get offered the course, you take the course because it's not going to affect your insurance premium.


    However pleasant and sickly nice that course is though, understand one thing, you've been totally scammed and made a hapless target by fat cat private firms operating in league with the police to generate £millions.


    If they cared about your driving skills and behaviours one iota they'd be offering free or very cheap courses to ALL the public at ALL times.


    But they don't . . . .


    It's all about the money !
    Last edited by Knapper; 09-08-2018 at 9:03 PM.
Page 5
    • cjdavies
    • By cjdavies 12th Aug 18, 12:13 PM
    • 3,449 Posts
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    cjdavies
    So you got caught speeding a little, probably no great shakes, maybe doing anywhere from 31mph to 41mph in a 30mph limit (and yes they ARE pulling up people at 31mph !!!!) and they offered you an NSAC (National Speed Awareness Course).


    Sounds great. No points on your licence, no conviction and thus no insurance premium hike right?


    But what is really going on here . . .


    Let me break it down because like me, you've just become the latest victim of what is a MULTI-MILLION POUND SCAM.
    Originally posted by Knapper
    Stopped reading after that, stick to speed limit and everything after you posted after that does not apply
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 12th Aug 18, 12:29 PM
    • 3,868 Posts
    • 4,558 Thanks
    Johno100
    If pedestrians are not deterred by the risk of death or injury, why would they be deterred by a £100 fine?
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Again that isn't the basis we set fines and other punishments on in this country. Sounds like you're advocating the Saudi system of chopping the hand's off thieves.

    And no, I wasn't aware that jaywalking was a crime in NI. But it will be a sad day when we take NI as our model of a civilised society.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    While I'm the first to agree that NI is the most backward part of the British Isles it doesn't mean they're automatically wrong about everything.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 12th Aug 18, 1:33 PM
    • 3,189 Posts
    • 1,985 Thanks
    Car 54
    Again that isn't the basis we set fines and other punishments on in this country. Sounds like you're advocating the Saudi system of chopping the hand's off thieves.
    Originally posted by Johno100
    That sounds like a very twisted piece of logic.


    On what basis do we set fines? The hope of deterence must play a large part.


    I'm not in favour of the Saudi system, but I do advocate stiffer penalties for users of spurious apostrophes.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Aug 18, 3:27 PM
    • 17,129 Posts
    • 10,264 Thanks
    motorguy
    Shock news!!! Businesses Aim to Make Money!!!

    Shocking revelations emerged today that businesses in the UK are run to make a profit. This comes hot on the heels of an earlier leak that some even "mark up" the products they supply.

    Some consumers are outraged that these parasites don't give away their products and services at cost or, preferably, at a loss.

    One anonymous, self confessed facist, replied "Scam scam scam cowboy scam ripoff scam!" when asked about the marking up of products, while sources close to another said he believed charging for education of people caught breaking the law was a "MULTI MILLION POUND SCAM" after he was, himself, caught breaking the law.

    Meanwhile, the rest of the world waits eagerly for new legislation banning the inappropriate use of the word "scam". A recent U-gove poll found that the majority (52%) of those asked thought that disemboweling with a blunt dictionary would be a fair starting point for sentencing.
    Originally posted by Joe Horner
    This post surprises me because i thought speed cameras and the enforcement of law wasnt actually a business?
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Aug 18, 3:30 PM
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    motorguy
    If you break the law you have to be prepared for the consequences if you get caught.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 12th Aug 18, 4:11 PM
    • 3,189 Posts
    • 1,985 Thanks
    Car 54
    This post surprises me because i thought speed cameras and the enforcement of law wasnt actually a business?
    Originally posted by motorguy

    You're right. But the offer of a course is not enforcement of the law. That would result in a fixed penalty or court appearance.


    In any event, enforcement of punishment under the law can indeed be a business, e.g. privatised prisons.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Aug 18, 4:13 PM
    • 17,129 Posts
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    motorguy
    You're right. But the offer of a course is not enforcement of the law. That would result in a fixed penalty or court appearance.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Correct, however i was querying Joe Horners "Shock news!!! Businesses Aim to Make Money!!!

    Shocking revelations emerged today that businesses in the UK are run to make a profit. This comes hot on the heels of an earlier leak that some even "mark up" the products they supply."
    Last edited by motorguy; 12-08-2018 at 4:18 PM.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 12th Aug 18, 5:00 PM
    • 4,454 Posts
    • 3,936 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    Correct, however i was querying Joe Horners "Shock news!!! Businesses Aim to Make Money!!!

    Shocking revelations emerged today that businesses in the UK are run to make a profit. This comes hot on the heels of an earlier leak that some even "mark up" the products they supply."
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Of course the companies who run the courses are businesses. They're the ones you pay the fees to and they aim to make a profit.

    How you get to be referred to them is a separate matter, but you always have the option of not accepting the referral and being dealt with by the not-for-profit justice system.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Aug 18, 5:26 PM
    • 17,129 Posts
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    motorguy
    Of course the companies who run the courses are businesses. They're the ones you pay the fees to and they aim to make a profit.

    How you get to be referred to them is a separate matter, but you always have the option of not accepting the referral and being dealt with by the not-for-profit justice system.
    Originally posted by Joe Horner
    Agreed.

    I've no particular issue with it. I thought the insinuation of the O/P was that the whole thing was a money making scam as opposed to the companies running it taking a bit of profit.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 12th Aug 18, 5:38 PM
    • 4,454 Posts
    • 3,936 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    I thought the insinuation of the O/P was that the whole thing was a money making scam as opposed to the companies running it taking a bit of profit.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    I think that is what he meant. I was trying to make the point that profit (and therefore potential for "scam") only comes into the equation after you've (a) broken the law, (b) been caught, and (c) voluntarily decided not to be dealt with by the normal justice system.

    Given (a) (b) and (c) above, it's not really surprising that someone makes some money out of you NOT getting points and a fine and, hopefully, learning not to get caught again!
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Aug 18, 5:49 PM
    • 17,129 Posts
    • 10,264 Thanks
    motorguy
    I think that is what he meant. I was trying to make the point that profit (and therefore potential for "scam") only comes into the equation after you've (a) broken the law, (b) been caught, and (c) voluntarily decided not to be dealt with by the normal justice system.

    Given (a) (b) and (c) above, it's not really surprising that someone makes some money out of you NOT getting points and a fine and, hopefully, learning not to get caught again!
    Originally posted by Joe Horner
    Indeed.....
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 12th Aug 18, 6:34 PM
    • 3,189 Posts
    • 1,985 Thanks
    Car 54
    I think that is what he meant. I was trying to make the point that profit (and therefore potential for "scam") only comes into the equation after you've (a) broken the law, (b) been caught, and (c) voluntarily decided not to be dealt with by the normal justice system.

    Given (a) (b) and (c) above, it's not really surprising that someone makes some money out of you NOT getting points and a fine and, hopefully, learning not to get caught again!
    Originally posted by Joe Horner

    Agreed. And as for the "scam", I'd be surprised if you could find any other 4-hour courses (regardless of subject) for as little as £90, unless subsidised.
    • Deastons
    • By Deastons 13th Aug 18, 8:47 AM
    • 264 Posts
    • 148 Thanks
    Deastons
    Recently got my first NIP (well it hasn't arrived yet but hirer has had it) for doing 48mph in a 40mph road at 1:30am on what is practically country road whilst on my way home from work, so I can relate.
    Originally posted by Guerillatoker
    I hear this sort of argument so often. Recently a friend of mine was done for doing 70mph in a 50 zone through temporary roadworks during the early hours. He was genuinely shocked because there was no work actually going on at the time.

    But mirror the various excuses for speeding and anger at speed camera vans and the lack of discretion of fixed speed cameras with a post I saw the other day on my local Facebook page. Someone's cat had been killed by a speeding driver and the comments were many. Lots of people saying how awful speeding is, calling for traffic calming and a 20mph limit through their village. "It's just a matter of time before someone's child gets killed."

    But when I drive at 20mph, most other drivers get frustrated, drive right up my bum and then overtake.

    The problem is that people don't care how their speeding (or generally poor driving) affects others, but they want action when other people's speeding affects them. And all the people on that Facebook post getting angry at people speeding through their village probably get in their car and come speeding through mine. Through the night it's very normal to see cars coming through our village at 50+mph.

    It's like NIMBYism.

    The biggest scam is the speed awareness course. It's a joke and should be scrapped. Speeding is illegal and should be punished by a hefty fine.
    Last edited by Deastons; 13-08-2018 at 9:06 AM.
    • Deastons
    • By Deastons 13th Aug 18, 8:52 AM
    • 264 Posts
    • 148 Thanks
    Deastons
    30 years ago while living in Germany I was pulled over by the German Police on 2 occasions for speeding in excess of the limit on the Restricted part of the Autobahn. I was offered the choice of DM300 (£100 at the time) fine and a receipt. Additional paperwork would also follow, or DM100 without a receipt. No points but it was an obvious Scam.
    Originally posted by Merlin139
    It's not a scam, it was a mutually beneficial agreement. The driver saves DM200 and they earn a bit of pocket money.
    • Deastons
    • By Deastons 13th Aug 18, 8:57 AM
    • 264 Posts
    • 148 Thanks
    Deastons
    I got one of these for doing 36 in a 30. The cruise control didn't work downhill. I was OK with it though as this was in 2013 and the last brush I had with traffic laws was 26 years previously. So it goes.
    Originally posted by westernpromise
    My cruise control doesn't work downhill either. For those occasions I use the brake which causes the vehicle to slow down and therefore not break the speed limit.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 13th Aug 18, 9:06 AM
    • 17,129 Posts
    • 10,264 Thanks
    motorguy
    I hear this sort of argument so often. Recently a friend of mine was done for doing 70mph in a 50 zone through temporary roadworks during the early hours. He was genuinely shocked because there was no work actually going on at the time.

    But mirror the various excuses for speeding and anger at speed camera vans and the lack of discretion of fixed speed cameras with a post I saw the other day on my local Facebook page. Someone's cat had been killed by a speeding driver and the comments were many. Lots of people saying how awful speeding is, calling for traffic calming and a 20mph limit through their village. "It's just a matter of time before someone's child gets killed."

    But when I drive at 20mph, most other drivers get frustrated, drive right up my bum and then overtake.

    The problem is that people don't care how their speeding affects others, but they want action when other people's speeding affects them. And all the people on that Facebook post getting angry at people speeding through their village probably get in their car and come speeding through mine. Through the night it's very normal to see cars coming through our village at 50+mph.

    It's like NIMBYism.

    The biggest scam is the speed awareness course. It's a joke and should be scrapped. Speeding is illegal and should be punished by a hefty fine.
    Originally posted by Deastons
    Usually by the people who bumble along at 40mph in a 60 then still do 40mph in a 30 or 20....

    I stick the car on cruise control whenever possible if i'm in a 40, 30 or 20 or stick the speed limiter on just because its so easy to stray over the speed limit and its easy pickings for speed cameras.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 13th Aug 18, 9:29 AM
    • 1,984 Posts
    • 10,371 Thanks
    NBLondon
    I drive down a dual-carriageway most days which has 2 lanes each side and a big central reservation. It has huge wide grass verges each side and then pavements. Despite this it is labelled as a 40mph limit. Why? because there's some ancient bridleway that existed before they built the carriage-way and so there exists the remotest possibility that one day someone on a horse might try to cross it. I've lived in my city all my life, over 50 years. Not once have I witnessed a horse cross that road, nor a pedestrian for that matter. It's a ludicrous speed limit and frankly 99% of cars that traverse that stretch of road do 50mph-60mph. It is quite safe to do so.
    Originally posted by Knapper
    There's a stretch like that near me - half of it has no turnoffs and no houses and would be perfectly safe at 50 (and so some people drive it 55-60); the other half has houses along it with a parallel access road. So 50 on the open bit; 40 by the housing and then 30 at the end when it gets more built up makes sense. It used to be 50 all the way and then was dropped - presumably in reaction to an accident. Did anyone assess whether speed was the key factor in the accident? Doubt it...
    [Sarcasm]Luckily we have the safety camera vans there occasionally to catch people who are speeding. A shame they do it on clear parts of the road where people are tempted to go a little faster, but never seen on the 'dangerous' parts of the road that were the reason the speed limit was lowered. So any drivers who decide to speed along the parts where accidents are more likely, are unlikely to get caught unless they're involved in an accident themselves.[/Sarcasm]
    Originally posted by ben501
    That does seem to be the case sometimes... Wonder if the Elf'n'Safety rules mean the van has to be parked well away from any known accident blackspots?
    Womble #7 - Running Total £9.92 $2.49 €5.31 S//0.10 (that's supposed to be 10 Ukrainian kopiyki but the site is refusing to display the symbol) Bds$0.10 A$0.10 NZ$0.55 C$0.89 S$0.20 zl0.02 (Polish grosze) LB0.22 (Bulgarian stotinka) ISKr 5 DKr 0.50 CHF 0.50 R0.10 (Rand not Rupees) KD0.05 (Kuwaiti fils)
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 13th Aug 18, 10:12 AM
    • 10,476 Posts
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    Cornucopia
    Where is this wondrous land of enthusiastic speed enforcement? Certainly not anywhere near here. The main A2-M2 motorway route has no speed cameras from Dartford all the way to past Faversham (a distance of 40 miles of prime speed freak apprehension opportunity).

    There is a mobile camera location on the A249 dual carriageway, but I've probably seen a van there no more than 3 times over the space of 5 years.

    I think what I'd prefer to see is either only enforcing very extreme cases (say >35% over the speed limit, so 95 in a 70, 67 in a 50), or minor punishment for small transgressions, and much heavier punishment for large ones. The reasoning being that whilst "Speed Kills" is just wrong in every conceivable way, it is the case that the very fast speed freaks set a bad example to impressionable people and are generally using the roads in an anti-social way.

    I'd also like to see automated enforcement (or indeed any enforcement) of other driving offences such as tailgating, mobile phone use, poor lane discipline, etc. etc.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 13-08-2018 at 10:16 AM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

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    • Deastons
    • By Deastons 13th Aug 18, 10:25 AM
    • 264 Posts
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    Deastons
    "Speed Kills" is just wrong in every conceivable way
    Originally posted by Cornucopia
    Hitting a pedestrian/cyclist at 20mph is very unlikely to kill them.

    Hitting a pedestrian/cyclist at 60mph is almost certainly going to kill them (or, at the very least, leave them with life-changing injuries).

    So how is "speed kills" wrong in this example?
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 13th Aug 18, 11:38 AM
    • 10,476 Posts
    • 10,631 Thanks
    Cornucopia
    Hitting a pedestrian/cyclist at 20mph is very unlikely to kill them.

    Hitting a pedestrian/cyclist at 60mph is almost certainly going to kill them (or, at the very least, leave them with life-changing injuries).

    So how is "speed kills" wrong in this example?
    Originally posted by Deastons
    "Speed kills" is a sentiment that has been oversimplified beyond useful, accurate understanding. A more appropriate soundbite might be something like "Carelessness Kills" - that would cover a much greater proportion of bad driving and of accidents.

    The challenge is to get over to the Public the requirement for diligent, sociable driving habits. That involves a huge range of things of which choosing an appropriate speed for the conditions is one element. (In other words, the consideration isn't even "speed", but appropriate speed for which the road limit may or may not be a good guide).
    I'm a Board Guide on the Phones & TV, Techie Stuff, In My Home,
    The Money Savers Arms and Food Shopping boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views (especially those on the UK TV Licence) are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.

    Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
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