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  • FIRST POST
    • Knapper
    • By Knapper 9th Aug 18, 4:57 PM
    • 18Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Knapper
    The Great Speed Awareness Course Scam
    • #1
    • 9th Aug 18, 4:57 PM
    The Great Speed Awareness Course Scam 9th Aug 18 at 4:57 PM
    So you got caught speeding a little, probably no great shakes, maybe doing anywhere from 31mph to 41mph in a 30mph limit (and yes they ARE pulling up people at 31mph !!!!) and they offered you an NSAC (National Speed Awareness Course).


    Sounds great. No points on your licence, no conviction and thus no insurance premium hike right?


    But what is really going on here . . .


    Let me break it down because like me, you've just become the latest victim of what is a MULTI-MILLION POUND SCAM.


    You see in days gone past you'd get stopped by a good old policeman standing at the side of the road. He's a man (or woman) and has judgement, intelligence and no great desire to penalise you unnecessarily. He would tell you your speed, check if you have a license, MOT, insurance and then depending on what speed you were doing and where it occurred he may, or may not, send you off with a caution. He could exercise judgement and sensible impartiality.


    Roll on a few years and now you have dedicated vans driving around whose sole purpose in life is to catch YOU doing anything from 1mph over the speed limit. You also have cameras everywhere. These cameras and people ARE NOT impartial, they don't exercise judgement, they simply record speed and ruthlessly generate Notices Of Intended Prosecution to those they catch.


    They are part of a huge machine which is the MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS I mentioned.


    You must understand that what they are doing is nothing whatsoever to do with speed reduction or engendering better driving skills in the nation. What they are doing is recruiting course participants for their MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS.

    Every participant on average will pay them £90 for the privilege of attending a 4 hour Speed Awareness Course (NSAC). The more participants they generate the more money the business earns.


    In 2017 there were some 1.2 million attendees of these courses. Do the math. That's over £100 MILLION POUNDS these fat cat private businesses are earning from hapless, easy target motorists.


    So what do people expect when they go on these courses?


    Well read a few reviews on the t'internet and you'll find tales of surprise and wonder. Where people thought they would be told off, patronised and subjected to films of horrific car crashes, there was instead much pleasantness and jolly humour and a bit of quizzing thrown in.


    Unfortunately, if you were one of those people who were surprised after attending an NSAC, then frankly you didn't/don't understand what the hell is going on.


    I will say it again, this is a MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS !
    Do you think such a business, as with any other business, would survive if it patronised it's customers and gave them an uncomfortable time? No of course not.


    So these parasitic companies welcome you with words of understanding.
    "We know you don't want to be here"
    they tell you with pseudo empathy and they give you 4 hours of relaxing presentation, group activity and quizzing.


    Understand that the people presenting do NOT work for these private firms operating this MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS. They are simply subcontracted presenters doing a simple job. They would, if you paid them the same £90 for 4 hours, give you a presentation on anything. Even how to best go to the toilet !!


    In the course I attended there were 24 people. Each paying £90. That's a tidy £2160 for the 4 hour session which equates to £540 per hour !!!!


    That's better than the Prime Minister !


    And for that these shameless parasites wouldn't even put on tea and coffee throughout that 4 hour period !


    Understand that the private companies, of which there are many, don't give a flying ***k about your driving habits. They are not in business to make you a better driver. They are in business to take £90 off as many people as they humanly can as quickly as they can before the entire system changes.


    The people at the top of this food chain are literally raking in £millions.


    Let me be clear though. The independent subcontracted presenters are genuine people. They do care and they mostly have good backgrounds. But that should not let you get distracted from the harsh reality that YOU have simply become the latest victim in what is simply a MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS SCAM. A scam perpetrated by the Police (who are getting about £35 out of every £90 paid) and by the private firms.


    If you simply took the fine and points on your license the money would go straight to the Treasury.


    Not long back the Admiral Group of insurance companies were allegedly starting to ask people during the renewal process whether they had attended Speed Awareness Courses and if so treated it just the same as a speeding ticket, upping your premiums. I was told by the course presenters that 4 weeks ago they changed this tack as they were losing business, presumably as people went to insurance companies that didn't ask that question. The problem is however that the insurance companies are NOT getting their cut from this MULTI-MILLION POUND SCAM so the most likely outcome is that they will ALL pretty soon club together and agree to ask about NSACs during the renewal process. Once they ALL start doing that and the public have nowhere else to turn, THEN this entire scam will crumble because for most people there will be no point at all attending a speed awareness course as your insurance will go up anyway. The only people who would attend then would be people with 6 or 9 points already on their license who would go on a course to prevent getting a driving ban.


    The future seems obvious to me. This MULTI-MILLION POUND SCAM has a very finite life span which is doubtless why they are going hell for leather right now to generate as many £90 paying course candidates as they can. The courses are literally fully booked for weeks and months already.


    Right now, the choice is simple. You get offered the course, you take the course because it's not going to affect your insurance premium.


    However pleasant and sickly nice that course is though, understand one thing, you've been totally scammed and made a hapless target by fat cat private firms operating in league with the police to generate £millions.


    If they cared about your driving skills and behaviours one iota they'd be offering free or very cheap courses to ALL the public at ALL times.


    But they don't . . . .


    It's all about the money !
    Last edited by Knapper; 09-08-2018 at 9:03 PM.
Page 3
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 10th Aug 18, 3:41 PM
    • 3,216 Posts
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    foxy-stoat
    Lets hope UK Carparks dont come up with their own version of the speed awareness course "how to park properly awareness course" - no doubt another "scam" for not being able to park within lines or come back to their car 10 minutes late and faced with a parking ticket.
    • Merlin139
    • By Merlin139 10th Aug 18, 3:59 PM
    • 5,424 Posts
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    Merlin139
    30 years ago while living in Germany I was pulled over by the German Police on 2 occasions for speeding in excess of the limit on the Restricted part of the Autobahn. I was offered the choice of DM300 (£100 at the time) fine and a receipt. Additional paperwork would also follow, or DM100 without a receipt. No points but it was an obvious Scam.

    I was speeding and I paid for being caught. From that point I decided that if I was going to speed in German I would make sure that I did it on an unrestricted part of the Autobahn.

    Back in the UK in the past I have driven many times far in excess of the Motorway speed limit but if I do I keep my eyes peeled forward and behind. Make sure I am very observant at motorway junctions and if caught pay the fine and accept the points.

    I have also attended the said SAC on 2 occasions. Missed a 3rd chance by 3 weeks.
    3.975 kWp PV SolarEdge System South Facing 10% Shading Installed 21 May 2014 Located in Mid East Yorkshire.
    • Merlin139
    • By Merlin139 10th Aug 18, 4:00 PM
    • 5,424 Posts
    • 20,878 Thanks
    Merlin139
    Lets hope UK Carparks dont come up with their own version of the speed awareness course "how to park properly awareness course" - no doubt another "scam" for not being able to park within lines or come back to their car 10 minutes late and faced with a parking ticket.
    Originally posted by foxy-stoat
    You need to teach people to drive properly first before you can teach them to park!
    3.975 kWp PV SolarEdge System South Facing 10% Shading Installed 21 May 2014 Located in Mid East Yorkshire.
    • Stoke
    • By Stoke 10th Aug 18, 5:11 PM
    • 2,979 Posts
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    Stoke
    What about the risk to others,i am sure the children or ol people crossing the road will forgive you
    Originally posted by Ganga
    I don't speed through crossings and if you had read my post, I actually said some places need reducing. For example, I know of a street near where I used to live which leads to a school. The road to the school is 20, but the street it comes off is actually a 40 and kids often walk down that road to get to the street that leads to their school. Hence you've got kids running in the road and crossing it and cars going past at 45.... even 50 (because everyone except you speeds).

    Ultimately, I do 70 on long single carriageway roads in the middle of nowhere that can safely accommodate vehicles doing 80, that are still technically 60 because NSL.... not town centres mate.
    • Ganga
    • By Ganga 10th Aug 18, 5:45 PM
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    Ganga
    I don't speed through crossings and if you had read my post, I actually said some places need reducing. For example, I know of a street near where I used to live which leads to a school. The road to the school is 20, but the street it comes off is actually a 40 and kids often walk down that road to get to the street that leads to their school. Hence you've got kids running in the road and crossing it and cars going past at 45.... even 50 (because everyone except you speeds).

    Ultimately, I do 70 on long single carriageway roads in the middle of nowhere that can safely accommodate vehicles doing 80, that are still technically 60 because NSL.... not town centres mate.
    Originally posted by Stoke
    No not everyone speeds,i keep within the speed limit and passed my test in 1967 and have never had any points on my licence and before you say i do not do the mileage i was employed as a mobile engineer so WHITE VAN MAN albeit with a tool boxbut did thousands of miles every week.I do agree with you that speed limits want dropping outside schools etc.
    ITS NOT EASY TO GET EVERYTHING WRONG ,I HAVE TO WORK HARD TO DO IT!
    • ben501
    • By ben501 10th Aug 18, 6:30 PM
    • 439 Posts
    • 718 Thanks
    ben501
    What about the risk to others,i am sure the children or ol people crossing the road will forgive you
    Originally posted by Ganga
    I'm with Stoke on this one. I've only had the pleasure of going on a course once. It was on a dual carriageway, about 8.30 on a lovely sunny Saturday morning that I was caught. Along the mile or so stretch of road there are a couple of turnings (roads leading off), and a few houses, all set well back. The kind of road that would generally have at least a 40, maybe 50mph limit. But this road has a school entrance on it, so is lumbered with a 30mph limit.
    I'm quite willing to admit I was breaking the law, and there's no point going on about the 'cash cow' since I'm sure it's been done to death, but I'd refute any accusation of dangerous driving, or increased risk to others. In the unlikely event of a pedestrian suddenly appearing, or an already visible pedestrian suddenly altering course to cross the road, I'd have plenty of time and distance to stop if necessary.

    I miss the days when we were allowed to think and use our own judgement. The trouble these days is the more we are told what to do, the less many people seem to use their own judgement, so we end up having more rules thrown at us, so we think even less... It's only going to get worse.

    I do sometimes wonder what the police themselves make of it. I remember talking to an officer once. It was over 20 years ago, and I don't remember why I was talking to the police (I'd had a few encounters with them and didn't think much of them as I recall), but I do remember him saying he was more concerned with dangerous driving, and less so the speeding. If, in his opinion, you were driving safely at 45mph, even though it was a 30mph limit, he wouldn't even stop you. Among the drivers he disliked most were the ones who had been driving at a little over the limit, and as soon as they saw him in the rear view, dropped to about 25mph.
    • Guerillatoker
    • By Guerillatoker 10th Aug 18, 7:12 PM
    • 139 Posts
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    Guerillatoker
    I think everyone's sarcastic responses are made without realising this is their tax money being piled into a private enterprise. Its just like those "help to work" agencies that launder money supposed to help people get into employment but just stick people on a computer for 7 hours a day.
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 11th Aug 18, 8:42 AM
    • 4,151 Posts
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    Johno100
    No not everyone speeds,i keep within the speed limit and passed my test in 1967 and have never had any points on my licence and before you say i do not do the mileage i was employed as a mobile engineer so WHITE VAN MAN albeit with a tool boxbut did thousands of miles every week.I do agree with you that speed limits want dropping outside schools etc.
    Originally posted by Ganga
    You mean you've never been caught?

    As someone once said to me "speeding is like masturbation, 90% of people do it, the other 10% are lying".

    And yes lower speed limits outside some schools but why 24/7? A couple of hours in the morning and a couple in the afternoon for 190 days a year is all that is needed.
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 11th Aug 18, 9:04 AM
    • 4,151 Posts
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    Johno100
    I think everyone's sarcastic responses are made without realising this is their tax money being piled into a private enterprise. Its just like those "help to work" agencies that launder money supposed to help people get into employment but just stick people on a computer for 7 hours a day.
    Originally posted by Guerillatoker
    No, not really. Those caught pay to attend the course out of their pockets, a proportion of that goes to the course operators and any surplus goes to the Safety Camera Partnership to pay for the cameras and the vans to keep the circle going.

    So I'm not sure where you are getting "tax money being piled into a private enterprise" from? Unless you are suggesting the course organisers are charging more than the fee paid by the participants to attend and the balance is being made up by public funds?

    While figures are somewhat hard to come by, this answer from West Mercia Police to a FOI request would indicate that of an £88 fee the course operator receives £49, so just over half, to run the course.

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/speed_awareness_course_7
    • Guerillatoker
    • By Guerillatoker 11th Aug 18, 11:18 AM
    • 139 Posts
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    Guerillatoker
    No, not really. Those caught pay to attend the course out of their pockets, a proportion of that goes to the course operators and any surplus goes to the Safety Camera Partnership to pay for the cameras and the vans to keep the circle going.

    So I'm not sure where you are getting "tax money being piled into a private enterprise" from? Unless you are suggesting the course organisers are charging more than the fee paid by the participants to attend and the balance is being made up by public funds?

    While figures are somewhat hard to come by, this answer from West Mercia Police to a FOI request would indicate that of an £88 fee the course operator receives £49, so just over half, to run the course.

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/speed_awareness_course_7
    Originally posted by Johno100
    The vans and the cameras are produced, maintained and often operated by private companies.

    The £49 per person, per course, to the course operator is still money that could have gone to the police force or the exchequer. I'm sure if you look into the course operators it will be rife with cronyism, like private security.
    Last edited by Guerillatoker; 11-08-2018 at 11:35 AM.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Aug 18, 11:50 AM
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    AndyMc.....
    No not everyone speeds,i keep within the speed limit and passed my test in 1967 and have never had any points on my licence and before you say i do not do the mileage i was employed as a mobile engineer so WHITE VAN MAN albeit with a tool boxbut did thousands of miles every week.I do agree with you that speed limits want dropping outside schools etc.
    Originally posted by Ganga
    You mean in 51 years you've never been caught.
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    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Aug 18, 11:52 AM
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    AndyMc.....
    The vans and the cameras are produced, maintained and often operated by private companies.

    The £49 per person, per course, to the course operator is still money that could have gone to the police force or the exchequer. I'm sure if you look into the course operators it will be rife with cronyism, like private security.
    Originally posted by Guerillatoker
    The only way the police make money from speeders is by way of the course. They see no money from FPN's or court convictions.
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    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 11th Aug 18, 11:59 AM
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    Johno100
    The vans and the cameras are produced, maintained and often operated by private companies.
    Originally posted by Guerillatoker
    Where are you getting that idea from? Safety Camera Partnerships are local multi-agency partnerships between local government, the police and sometimes the Highways Agency.

    The £49 per person, per course, to the course operator is still money that could have gone to the police force or the exchequer.
    Originally posted by Guerillatoker
    Partly correct re the exchequer and as I said earlier in this thread if people opted for the fine and points rather than a course then they'd go out of business. And there'd also likely be a huge drop in the number of operational static cameras and vans because cash strapped police and local authorities wouldn't have the money to run them without getting the surplus money from the courses.

    I'm sure if you look into the course operators it will be rife with cronyism, like private security.
    Originally posted by Guerillatoker
    You may or may not be correct, all I'd say is I've yet to come across a course operator where the controlling interest (director(s) or partners) of the business aren't ex-coppers.
    Last edited by Johno100; 11-08-2018 at 12:02 PM.
    • Ganga
    • By Ganga 11th Aug 18, 12:24 PM
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    Ganga
    You mean you've never been caught?

    As someone once said to me "speeding is like masturbation, 90% of people do it, the other 10% are lying".

    And yes lower speed limits outside some schools but why 24/7? A couple of hours in the morning and a couple in the afternoon for 190 days a year is all that is needed.
    Originally posted by Johno100


    And how are you going to make that work? are you going to put up a huge sign with the speed limit on and the times and dates?
    What about the kids who do " after school activities " also some kids go in early for Breakfast Club.
    The reason for making it 24/7 and 365 days a year is then the idiots who break the speed limits past schools can not claim " I thought the school was closed/kids allready in etc. "
    Does slowing down for a couple of hundred yards make that much difference to your life?no people who speed do it all the time.
    ITS NOT EASY TO GET EVERYTHING WRONG ,I HAVE TO WORK HARD TO DO IT!
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 11th Aug 18, 12:37 PM
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    Mercdriver
    [/B][/U][/COLOR]
    And how are you going to make that work? are you going to put up a huge sign with the speed limit on and the times and dates?
    What about the kids who do " after school activities " also some kids go in early for Breakfast Club.
    The reason for making it 24/7 and 365 days a year is then the idiots who break the speed limits past schools can not claim " I thought the school was closed/kids allready in etc. "
    Does slowing down for a couple of hundred yards make that much difference to your life?no people who speed do it all the time.
    Originally posted by Ganga
    Lower speed limits at certain times already exists. Have you not seen 20mph when lights are flashing - the 20mph is in a red circle so not advisory. Some schools near me have them
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Aug 18, 12:44 PM
    • 2,569 Posts
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    AndyMc.....
    Lower speed limits at certain times already exists. Have you not seen 20mph when lights are flashing - the 20mph is in a red circle so not advisory. Some schools near me have them
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    Same here, so it's really not that difficult.
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    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 11th Aug 18, 1:03 PM
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    Johno100
    And how are you going to make that work? are you going to put up a huge sign with the speed limit on and the times and dates?
    Originally posted by Ganga
    Think you need to get out more.

    • Knapper
    • By Knapper 11th Aug 18, 2:03 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Knapper
    Clearly you weren't paying attention... the point of that demo is to show how much longer the stopping distance is at 35 than at 30 and so on because many people don't leave enough. Not to mention those who think they are better drivers than Tiff...
    Originally posted by NBLondon

    No you're wrong. The point of that video is to demonstrate how much actual speed your car has at the tail end of your braking distance. It demonstrates that if you go 32mph and brake then when you reach the point where you would have stopped if you were travelling at 30mph, you are, at that point still travelling a surprising number of mph.


    And whilst that bit of maths and physics is interesting, it remains completely irrelevant because if a person, child or otherwise is going to run in front of a moving car WITHIN that car's braking distance, whatever the speed, then the person is going to get hit. Simple as.


    For any of this kidology to make any sense or be relevant one has to make a case to suggest that statistically speaking people tend to walk/run out in front of cars WITHIN their braking distance a certain % of the time. I saw absolutely no attempt by the video or the course presenters to make any such case.


    So we are left with just the basic facts which we all know anyway.


    Put a person in front of a travelling car within its braking distance and the person will be hit. Doesn't matter what speed the car is travelling, 30mph, 35mph, 50mph, 100mph. If the person steps out within the car's braking distance an accident will happen.


    The response to that situation and to any high number of related statistics is NOT to make everyone travel at 5mph to give huge braking distance. The response should be to do something to prevent kids/pedestrians from stepping out within a car's braking distance in the first place.


    So that's pedestrian/child education. Strong teaching of crossing roads, anticipation, judgement of car speeds, stuff like the Green Cross Code they taught in the 70s/80s.


    It could also be the installation of lots more metal railings to make it difficult for pedestrians to cross the roads in busy areas except by using proper pedestrian crossings.


    It could also be the manufacture of more reflective clothing which kids should be encouraged to wear at night.


    There's a whole raft of measures that could be thought up before you get to the lame money spinning idea of penalising motorists from doing 35 in a 30 limit.


    I'd hazard a guess, in fact I'd wager a lot of money that your average kid could NOT judge the difference between a car travelling at 30mph and 35 mph. So to the kid, the speed makes no difference. What matters is that they take the appropriate measures to cross a road safely. Wait for all cars to pass, don't stand behind cars and other obstructions, look out for motorbikes and cycles and so on.


    If the pedestrians don't have the required education to cross a road then it doesn't matter how fast you are going.


    This said, I fully appreciate that a car screaming through a 30mph built-up area doing 60mph is irresponsible. And there are times when doing 30mph is equally a poor choice and 20mph would be more appropriate. All comes down to driving judgement.


    As with others' comments in this thread I 100% don't deem my speeding event to have been the least bit dangerous. I was on an empty 30pmh road with an incline. Good pavements both sides of the road, 7.15 in the morning, good visibility. No other cars, not a pedestrian to be seen. Just a private firm detector van clocking people for the purpose of generating revenue.
    I drive the same road every day and drive it the same way. Only difference is I now look out for the detector van. That's not a good thing. It means my driving is now distracted every day around that point as I look out for speed vans.
    • TooManyPoints
    • By TooManyPoints 11th Aug 18, 2:10 PM
    • 141 Posts
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    TooManyPoints
    The £49 per person, per course, to the course operator is still money that could have gone to the police force or the exchequer.
    Anybody feeling strongly about that can simply decline the course and accept the fixed penalty. He then pays all his £100 in to the General Fund (and gets three points). If they are really public spirited they can decline that as well and pay about twice as much in court. You pays your money and takes your choice.

    Its a shame some responses were taken as sarcastic. Mine was probably one of them. Sorry about that but when somebody suggests motorists are being scammed because they are given the opportunity to avoid a criminal prosecution by paying a fee that is about half the minimum that a court would impose, I can only laugh.
    • Knapper
    • By Knapper 11th Aug 18, 2:12 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Knapper
    No, not really. Those caught pay to attend the course out of their pockets, a proportion of that goes to the course operators and any surplus goes to the Safety Camera Partnership to pay for the cameras and the vans to keep the circle going.

    So I'm not sure where you are getting "tax money being piled into a private enterprise" from? Unless you are suggesting the course organisers are charging more than the fee paid by the participants to attend and the balance is being made up by public funds?
    Originally posted by Johno100


    The average course cost is about £90 of which the POLICE get about £35 I believe.


    As the other poster stated, if you took the fine instead then the money would into the Treasury, all of it. Thus it would be reinvested in public services.


    The lion's share of the money is going into these private firms that have sprung up all over the country, unsurprisingly because a £500 per HOUR or more earning rate is extremely attractive.


    That lion's share is not going back to the public. It's going into the private firm fat cat's pockets.


    The police are happy with the situation because the government have cut their budgets over the years so having a nice money generating scam that produces anywhere from £35m to £50m a year for them is clearly something they are going to support and perpetuate.


    Note that running around the streets of Britain catching drink drivers and drug drivers, whilst being hugely important and beneficial to us all, DOES NOT generate £35m to £50m for the police coffers. Motorists remain a soft and easy target for massive money generation. It really is just about the money.
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