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  • FIRST POST
    • Knapper
    • By Knapper 9th Aug 18, 4:57 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Knapper
    The Great Speed Awareness Course Scam
    • #1
    • 9th Aug 18, 4:57 PM
    The Great Speed Awareness Course Scam 9th Aug 18 at 4:57 PM
    So you got caught speeding a little, probably no great shakes, maybe doing anywhere from 31mph to 41mph in a 30mph limit (and yes they ARE pulling up people at 31mph !!!!) and they offered you an NSAC (National Speed Awareness Course).


    Sounds great. No points on your licence, no conviction and thus no insurance premium hike right?


    But what is really going on here . . .


    Let me break it down because like me, you've just become the latest victim of what is a MULTI-MILLION POUND SCAM.


    You see in days gone past you'd get stopped by a good old policeman standing at the side of the road. He's a man (or woman) and has judgement, intelligence and no great desire to penalise you unnecessarily. He would tell you your speed, check if you have a license, MOT, insurance and then depending on what speed you were doing and where it occurred he may, or may not, send you off with a caution. He could exercise judgement and sensible impartiality.


    Roll on a few years and now you have dedicated vans driving around whose sole purpose in life is to catch YOU doing anything from 1mph over the speed limit. You also have cameras everywhere. These cameras and people ARE NOT impartial, they don't exercise judgement, they simply record speed and ruthlessly generate Notices Of Intended Prosecution to those they catch.


    They are part of a huge machine which is the MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS I mentioned.


    You must understand that what they are doing is nothing whatsoever to do with speed reduction or engendering better driving skills in the nation. What they are doing is recruiting course participants for their MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS.

    Every participant on average will pay them £90 for the privilege of attending a 4 hour Speed Awareness Course (NSAC). The more participants they generate the more money the business earns.


    In 2017 there were some 1.2 million attendees of these courses. Do the math. That's over £100 MILLION POUNDS these fat cat private businesses are earning from hapless, easy target motorists.


    So what do people expect when they go on these courses?


    Well read a few reviews on the t'internet and you'll find tales of surprise and wonder. Where people thought they would be told off, patronised and subjected to films of horrific car crashes, there was instead much pleasantness and jolly humour and a bit of quizzing thrown in.


    Unfortunately, if you were one of those people who were surprised after attending an NSAC, then frankly you didn't/don't understand what the hell is going on.


    I will say it again, this is a MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS !
    Do you think such a business, as with any other business, would survive if it patronised it's customers and gave them an uncomfortable time? No of course not.


    So these parasitic companies welcome you with words of understanding.
    "We know you don't want to be here"
    they tell you with pseudo empathy and they give you 4 hours of relaxing presentation, group activity and quizzing.


    Understand that the people presenting do NOT work for these private firms operating this MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS. They are simply subcontracted presenters doing a simple job. They would, if you paid them the same £90 for 4 hours, give you a presentation on anything. Even how to best go to the toilet !!


    In the course I attended there were 24 people. Each paying £90. That's a tidy £2160 for the 4 hour session which equates to £540 per hour !!!!


    That's better than the Prime Minister !


    And for that these shameless parasites wouldn't even put on tea and coffee throughout that 4 hour period !


    Understand that the private companies, of which there are many, don't give a flying ***k about your driving habits. They are not in business to make you a better driver. They are in business to take £90 off as many people as they humanly can as quickly as they can before the entire system changes.


    The people at the top of this food chain are literally raking in £millions.


    Let me be clear though. The independent subcontracted presenters are genuine people. They do care and they mostly have good backgrounds. But that should not let you get distracted from the harsh reality that YOU have simply become the latest victim in what is simply a MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS SCAM. A scam perpetrated by the Police (who are getting about £35 out of every £90 paid) and by the private firms.


    If you simply took the fine and points on your license the money would go straight to the Treasury.


    Not long back the Admiral Group of insurance companies were allegedly starting to ask people during the renewal process whether they had attended Speed Awareness Courses and if so treated it just the same as a speeding ticket, upping your premiums. I was told by the course presenters that 4 weeks ago they changed this tack as they were losing business, presumably as people went to insurance companies that didn't ask that question. The problem is however that the insurance companies are NOT getting their cut from this MULTI-MILLION POUND SCAM so the most likely outcome is that they will ALL pretty soon club together and agree to ask about NSACs during the renewal process. Once they ALL start doing that and the public have nowhere else to turn, THEN this entire scam will crumble because for most people there will be no point at all attending a speed awareness course as your insurance will go up anyway. The only people who would attend then would be people with 6 or 9 points already on their license who would go on a course to prevent getting a driving ban.


    The future seems obvious to me. This MULTI-MILLION POUND SCAM has a very finite life span which is doubtless why they are going hell for leather right now to generate as many £90 paying course candidates as they can. The courses are literally fully booked for weeks and months already.


    Right now, the choice is simple. You get offered the course, you take the course because it's not going to affect your insurance premium.


    However pleasant and sickly nice that course is though, understand one thing, you've been totally scammed and made a hapless target by fat cat private firms operating in league with the police to generate £millions.


    If they cared about your driving skills and behaviours one iota they'd be offering free or very cheap courses to ALL the public at ALL times.


    But they don't . . . .


    It's all about the money !
    Last edited by Knapper; 09-08-2018 at 9:03 PM.
Page 2
    • Knapper
    • By Knapper 9th Aug 18, 9:32 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Knapper
    If these courses can stop 1 person from causing a road related incident then its worth it? Right?
    Originally posted by campbell19925


    There's the rub. Road related incidents are not caused by speeding. They are always caused by poor drivers or pedestrians unable to drive properly or assess conditions and pay attention.


    If a dumb pedestrian or cyclist or motorbike rider is going to step or ride out in front of a moving car then an accident is going to happen. The notion that driving slower would help, is frankly an unending bit of kidology because clearly 20mph would then be better than 30mph and 10mph would be better than 20mph and then 5mph and so on. So are we all to drive at 5mph everywhere ?


    Nope it's a nonsense.


    Speed does NOT kill. Not now, not ever.


    Neither does the speed of a bullet kill.


    What kills is a person firing a bullet at another person.


    What causes accidents and fatalities is people not being in control of their vehicle or paying attention or 100 other similar reasons, but the speed is not one of them. Speed might affect the severity of the outcome but it's not the cause and if anyone actually cared about reducing the number of accidents the money and effort would go towards educating both pedestrians and drivers in their respective environments. Focussing on speed is frankly just stupid. The old codger who can barely see and who can't turn his neck when reversing is far more a road accident risk than a capable driver doing 5mph over the limit.


    The NSACs about half way through play this incredibly lame piece of video with Tiff Needell. It is utterly ludicrous. They put a cardboard cut-out just at the outer edge of a car's braking/stopping distance for 30mph and then demonstrate driving at 30mph and braking and sure enough the car stops just short of the cut-out. Tiff then ramps the car up to 35mph but DOES NOT move the cut-out. So now the cut-out is within the 35mph stopping distance. Guess what? Tiff hits the cut-out. Shock !


    This goes on. He increases his speed and each time the cut-out stays located within the original 30mph stopping distance and of course he hits the cut-out with increasing force.
    The whole thing is utterly ludicrous. What they are doing is a bit of kidology, trying to show people how fast you are going before you stop. At the end of the day, if you are going to place a cut-out within the car's stopping distance then of course the car is going to hit the cut-out. The speed is irrelevant.
    The solution, if they really cared about finding one, lies in making changes to ensure that cut-out, or rather pedestrian, is NOT in front of a moving car in the first place.


    I noticed too that the course opened with a whole bunch of statistics about the number of road casualties nationwide each year broken down by severity. They made no attempt whatsoever to explain the nature of those crashes and what the causes were, whether drivers or pedestrians, mobile phone users, drink drivers and so on. But people are sat on a Speed Awareness Course so the psychological trick floats through the air that this must all be a result of speeding, which of course is totally not true. Much of the course ran along a similar line, psychological nonsense that really didn't stack up at all.


    In the end it was a 4 hour spiel, death by powerpoint with joviality thrown in where possible to keep the saps happy.


    The sadness of it all is that there was an opportunity there to focus AWAY from the issue of speed and more towards being an all round better driver, how to better assess conditions, how to anticipate, what to anticipate, what changes to make in different situations and so on. That is what is really needed.
    • treboeth
    • By treboeth 9th Aug 18, 10:00 PM
    • 1,126 Posts
    • 1,275 Thanks
    treboeth
    There's the rub. Road related incidents are not caused by speeding. They are always caused by poor drivers or pedestrians unable to drive properly or assess conditions and pay attention.
    Originally posted by Knapper
    Stopped reading after this

    If you have a problem with the SAC`start a petition or speak to your local MP(it won`t get you anywhere but will keep you off the internet for a couple of days).
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 9th Aug 18, 10:07 PM
    • 2,046 Posts
    • 1,245 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    There's the rub. Road related incidents are not caused by speeding. They are always caused by poor drivers or pedestrians unable to drive properly or assess conditions and pay attention.


    If a dumb pedestrian or cyclist or motorbike rider is going to step or ride out in front of a moving car then an accident is going to happen. The notion that driving slower would help, is frankly an unending bit of kidology because clearly 20mph would then be better than 30mph and 10mph would be better than 20mph and then 5mph and so on. So are we all to drive at 5mph everywhere ?


    Nope it's a nonsense.


    Speed does NOT kill. Not now, not ever.


    Neither does the speed of a bullet kill.



    What kills is a person firing a bullet at another person.


    What causes accidents and fatalities is people not being in control of their vehicle or paying attention or 100 other similar reasons, but the speed is not one of them. Speed might affect the severity of the outcome but it's not the cause and if anyone actually cared about reducing the number of accidents the money and effort would go towards educating both pedestrians and drivers in their respective environments. Focussing on speed is frankly just stupid. The old codger who can barely see and who can't turn his neck when reversing is far more a road accident risk than a capable driver doing 5mph over the limit.


    The NSACs about half way through play this incredibly lame piece of video with Tiff Needell. It is utterly ludicrous. They put a cardboard cut-out just at the outer edge of a car's braking/stopping distance for 30mph and then demonstrate driving at 30mph and braking and sure enough the car stops just short of the cut-out. Tiff then ramps the car up to 35mph but DOES NOT move the cut-out. So now the cut-out is within the 35mph stopping distance. Guess what? Tiff hits the cut-out. Shock !


    This goes on. He increases his speed and each time the cut-out stays located within the original 30mph stopping distance and of course he hits the cut-out with increasing force.
    The whole thing is utterly ludicrous. What they are doing is a bit of kidology, trying to show people how fast you are going before you stop. At the end of the day, if you are going to place a cut-out within the car's stopping distance then of course the car is going to hit the cut-out. The speed is irrelevant.
    The solution, if they really cared about finding one, lies in making changes to ensure that cut-out, or rather pedestrian, is NOT in front of a moving car in the first place.


    I noticed too that the course opened with a whole bunch of statistics about the number of road casualties nationwide each year broken down by severity. They made no attempt whatsoever to explain the nature of those crashes and what the causes were, whether drivers or pedestrians, mobile phone users, drink drivers and so on. But people are sat on a Speed Awareness Course so the psychological trick floats through the air that this must all be a result of speeding, which of course is totally not true. Much of the course ran along a similar line, psychological nonsense that really didn't stack up at all.


    In the end it was a 4 hour spiel, death by powerpoint with joviality thrown in where possible to keep the saps happy.


    The sadness of it all is that there was an opportunity there to focus AWAY from the issue of speed and more towards being an all round better driver, how to better assess conditions, how to anticipate, what to anticipate, what changes to make in different situations and so on. That is what is really needed.
    Originally posted by Knapper
    Go on then show us and example of an unfired round still in the chamber killing someone or a stationary vehicle striking and killing a pedestrian.
    Hi there! We’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Guerillatoker
    • By Guerillatoker 9th Aug 18, 10:45 PM
    • 141 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    Guerillatoker
    Go on then show us and example of an unfired round still in the chamber killing someone or a stationary vehicle striking and killing a pedestrian.
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    There was that famous geezer who crushed himself on his drive with his parked car.

    Sure, it moved, but it was the car holding itself stationary against the wall that killed him.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 10th Aug 18, 1:00 AM
    • 1,905 Posts
    • 1,296 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Although there is an opportunity for attendees too. You're going to be meeting lawbreakers of the opposite sex who may be quite fanciable and clearly not bound by moral norms, so a bit of wa-hey may be possible.
    Originally posted by westernpromise
    What if they are Audi drivers?
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 10th Aug 18, 1:02 AM
    • 1,905 Posts
    • 1,296 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    so you got caught speeding a little, probably no great shakes, maybe doing anywhere from 31mph to 41mph in a 30mph limit (and yes they are pulling up people at 31mph !!!!) and they offered you an nsac (national speed awareness course).


    !
    Originally posted by knapper
    tl:dr............

    There's the rub. Road related incidents are not caused by speeding. They are always caused by poor drivers or pedestrians unable to drive properly or assess conditions and pay attention.


    .
    Originally posted by Knapper
    tl:dr (again)
    Last edited by Mercdriver; 10-08-2018 at 1:05 AM.
    • Bigphil1474
    • By Bigphil1474 10th Aug 18, 8:21 AM
    • 851 Posts
    • 362 Thanks
    Bigphil1474
    Did someone mention conspiracy nonsense. If so, spot on. The speed you get done for isn't the speed on your speedo - everyone knows that, right? Everyone I know who has got a speeding ticket or had the course opportunity, was doing 36 in a 30. Classic. Far as I know, all static cameras are the same, and allow a margin of error along the lines of 10%+2. Road traffic policing officers have portable devices, or in car cameras, which will be more accurate, so they can do you for less, but probably don't unless they have reason to do so e.g. someone killed on that bit of road a few weeks ago, police go down and set up a speed trap to get motorists to slow down.
    The reality is, lots of people who get done for speeding seem to want to blame anyone except themselves. It's not smug to point out the blindingly obvious about not speeding - it's pretty much amongst the best money saving advice for drivers.
    I've never been caught speeding because I don't speed in a thirty, but I'm quite happy to go down the motorway anywhere between 60-90 depending on whether I need to save money on fuel, or need to get somewhere quick. Take the risk, pay the fine, or pay for the course. Plus the fine or course costs the driver pretty much the same anyway? so isn't the rant about where the money goes, not that drivers are being scammed?
    • Knapper
    • By Knapper 10th Aug 18, 10:03 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Knapper
    Plus the fine or course costs the driver pretty much the same anyway? so isn't the rant about where the money goes, not that drivers are being scammed?
    by BigPhil

    Not so much where the money goes, but rather the whole fake precept that the scam is founded on, i.e. that this is somehow all about teaching people to be better drivers and reducing accidents.


    It IS a simply a scam wrapped up in the cosy blanket of pretence that they care about changing driver's behaviours. Perhaps some years ago someone genuinely thought it was all a good idea, but clearly the fat cats realised that this was a fantastic money spinning opportunity, backed up by the police and authorities and began to milk it for all it was worth.


    So now you have sub-contracted detector vans roaming the streets whose sole intention is not to catch people speeding in order to rectify their behaviour, but rather to catch people speeding in order to then exploit them for a £90 hit, effectively blackmailing them onto a course which will generate over £500 per HOUR for them. It's an obscene amount of money generation.


    As I say though, their time is limited as the insurance companies are not getting their cut of this lucrative action. Once the insurance companies club together and start penalising those who have attended NSACs (so they can rake in more money in premiums) then NSAC business model collapses and these fat cat private businesses will dry up overnight.
    • westernpromise
    • By westernpromise 10th Aug 18, 10:06 AM
    • 4,255 Posts
    • 5,521 Thanks
    westernpromise
    What if they are Audi drivers?
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    The B.O. would warn you.
    Buying a house, if you believe the market has a way to fall, or if you are paying sill asking prices ( like some sheeple ) or if you are buying in London, is now a massive financial gamble!!!!! - June 8, 2012 by TheCountOfNowhere
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 10th Aug 18, 10:06 AM
    • 1,962 Posts
    • 10,312 Thanks
    NBLondon
    At the end of the day, if you are going to place a cut-out within the car's stopping distance then of course the car is going to hit the cut-out. The speed is irrelevant.
    The solution, if they really cared about finding one, lies in making changes to ensure that cut-out, or rather pedestrian, is NOT in front of a moving car in the first place.
    Originally posted by Knapper
    Clearly you weren't paying attention... the point of that demo is to show how much longer the stopping distance is at 35 than at 30 and so on because many people don't leave enough. Not to mention those who think they are better drivers than Tiff...

    The OP is right in one or two sentences... Speed on it's own doesn't automatically kill. Inappropriate speed for the conditions or speed beyond the capability of the driver/vehicle combo can and sometimes does. Inattention is a big factor too.

    And the course I took a few years ago was run by the AA and delivered by an advanced driving instructor of 30 years standing so did offer some good points on anticipation and observation. It probably did improve my driving a bit by reminding me of things or bad habits I've acquired. And the cost to me was less than the fine - even with the 40p for awful machine coffee
    Womble #7 - Running Total £9.92 $2.49 €5.31 S//0.10 (that's supposed to be 10 Ukrainian kopiyki but the site is refusing to display the symbol) Bds$0.10 A$0.10 NZ$0.55 C$0.89 S$0.20 zl0.02 (Polish grosze) LB0.22 (Bulgarian stotinka) ISKr 5 DKr 0.50 CHF 0.50 R0.10 (Rand not Rupees) KD0.05 (Kuwaiti fils)
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 10th Aug 18, 10:15 AM
    • 3,135 Posts
    • 4,215 Thanks
    George Michael
    Not so much where the money goes, but rather the whole fake precept that the scam is founded on, i.e. that this is somehow all about teaching people to be better drivers and reducing accidents.
    Originally posted by Knapper
    Writing as someone who went on a SAC about 18 months ago, (36mph in a 30 limit, my fault entirely and no arguments about getting caught) I would disagree with the above comment.

    Since I attended the course, I would say that I am more aware of the exact speed I am doing and I consider getting caught and doing the course as a wake up call and consider myself lucky to only have had to pay £75 and spend a few hours in a classroom.
    • MEM62
    • By MEM62 10th Aug 18, 11:04 AM
    • 1,654 Posts
    • 1,266 Thanks
    MEM62
    This post wins this months' prize for repeating a single phrase ('MULTI-MILLION POUND BUSINESS') more than any other. I guess the OP didn't think we get it first time round.

    It is widely known that speed cameras have been cynically used to raise revenue since they became widespread in the 1980's. This is hardly new news.

    Unfortunately, the increased conviction figures were also used as an excuse by successive governments to reduce the number of dedicated Traffic Officers on our roads. A regrettable situation as a camera will not catch more serious offenders such as dangerous drivers or drink drivers - but apparently that's OK (or not in my view) because we catch lots of speeding drivers. It is a mystery to me why the Chief Constables of the various Police authorities allow this situation.

    As for the courses themselves, these do often have some good content and do encourage drivers to be more aware. You could say that they follow the mantra of educate rather than prosecute but any attendee's wallet is still lighter to the tune of £90. Let's hope that in most cases it is £90 well spent.
    Last edited by MEM62; 10-08-2018 at 11:08 AM.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 10th Aug 18, 1:05 PM
    • 12,704 Posts
    • 11,395 Thanks
    jimjames
    Don't break the law and you won't get scammed.
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    Exactly. The easiest scam or ripoff to avoid.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • Stoke
    • By Stoke 10th Aug 18, 1:22 PM
    • 2,502 Posts
    • 1,936 Thanks
    Stoke
    I've done a course before. Was caught speeding after having a row with my missus in the car and getting stressed.

    Was I angry? Yes.
    Was I f'ing and blinding at the van? Yes.
    Was it their fault I was speeding? No.

    At the end of the day, do I still speed? Yes. It's a risk I take and I know I take. You live with the consequences at the end of the day. If you get caught, your fault. The courses do help some people. I personally found mine to be useful in as far as it taught some very good driving tips. I just feel the speed limits in this country need reassessing as they are out of date..... some need upping and some need reducing in fact.
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 10th Aug 18, 2:06 PM
    • 7,634 Posts
    • 6,998 Thanks
    Herzlos
    So, OP, did you learn anything from the course?
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 10th Aug 18, 2:33 PM
    • 1,905 Posts
    • 1,296 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    So, OP, did you learn anything from the course?
    Originally posted by Herzlos
    Seemingly to write whole diatribal rants
    • Ganga
    • By Ganga 10th Aug 18, 3:30 PM
    • 1,164 Posts
    • 597 Thanks
    Ganga
    I've done a course before. Was caught speeding after having a row with my missus in the car and getting stressed.

    Was I angry? Yes.
    Was I f'ing and blinding at the van? Yes.
    Was it their fault I was speeding? No.

    At the end of the day, do I still speed? Yes. It's a risk I take and I know I take. You live with the consequences at the end of the day. If you get caught, your fault. The courses do help some people. I personally found mine to be useful in as far as it taught some very good driving tips. I just feel the speed limits in this country need reassessing as they are out of date..... some need upping and some need reducing in fact.
    Originally posted by Stoke
    What about the risk to others,i am sure the children or ol people crossing the road will forgive you
    ITS NOT EASY TO GET EVERYTHING WRONG ,I HAVE TO WORK HARD TO DO IT!
    • redux
    • By redux 10th Aug 18, 3:30 PM
    • 18,376 Posts
    • 24,425 Thanks
    redux
    So, OP, did you learn anything from the course?
    Originally posted by Herzlos
    The number of fatal road accidents in the UK has been halving every 20 years.

    Apart from cars and roads being built to better safety standards, and despite more cars on the roads, whatever the authorities are doing to educate drivers seems to be working.
    • TooManyPoints
    • By TooManyPoints 10th Aug 18, 3:35 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 74 Thanks
    TooManyPoints
    These cameras and people ARE NOT impartial,!!!8230;
    .

    And then:

    ...they simply record speed and ruthlessly generate Notices Of Intended Prosecution to those they catch.
    If they were not impartial they would prosecute some people whom they catch and not others, based on their partiality. According to you all drivers that they catch are sent NIPs so the system must be impartial.

    The guideline threshold for action in a 30 mph limit is 35. The experts at pepipoo.com advise on thousands of speeding cases every year, and (despite lots of anecdotes) they have yet to see hard evidence of any action below that speed. Do you have any such evidence?
    Indeed. I have seen one or two mentions on here, and elsewhere, of drivers alleging they have had action taken for driving 1mph over the limit. I have had quite a lot of dealings with people charged with speeding and I have yet to see a properly supported example of a driver having action taken against him for driving at 1mph over the limitt. In fact I dontt think I can recall any examples of a driver having action taken against him for driving below below the ACPO guidelines. This is the current CPS guidance for prosecuting Road Traffic offences and in particular the guidance on enforcement:

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/road-traffic-offences-guidance-fixed-penalty-notices

    In particular:

    These are guidelines only and a police officer has discretion to act outside of them providing he acts fairly, consistently and proportionately.

    Note that it a police officer using his discretion to initiate action outside the guidelines (by taking action at a lower speed than suggested) must act consistently. Any office taking a one-off decision to take action at 31mph could face an enquiry for his inconsistency and any making it a regular habit would face the same enquiry for acting contrary to the guidelines.

    So, back to your rant, it is quite easy to avoid falling victim to this MULTI MILLION POUND SCAM;. All you need to do is drive without exceeding the speed limits. In fact, I would be fairly sure that you would not become a victim if you kept below (Limit + 10% + 2mph). If you cannot avoid that, you still have no need to be scammed. You have three perfectly acceptable alternatives. You can:

    - Take a Fixed Penalty of £100 and receive three points

    - Or you can take the matter to court where pleading guilty (the least sensible alternative of all if you have no viable defence) will see you face an income related fine of up to 66% of your weekly net income, a 10% surcharge, £85 costs and either a ban or up to six points.

    - Or go the whole hog and defend the matter on the basis that you face being scammed where the cost of failure for most people would be upwards of a Grand.

    Why on Earth should anyone in their right mind fall for a scam which would cost them around ninety quid and half a day off work when they can readily avoid it by shelling out a thousand pounds or more? I'm quite with you. I cannot imagine why so many people fall for it and I think we must be eternally grateful to you for pointing out this MULTI MILLION POUND SCAM.

    Last edited by TooManyPoints; 10-08-2018 at 3:49 PM.
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 10th Aug 18, 3:39 PM
    • 3,381 Posts
    • 2,472 Thanks
    Tarambor
    The number of fatal road accidents in the UK has been halving every 20 years.
    Originally posted by redux
    And speeding is only a contributory factor in just 6% of all accidents.
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