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    • Mozzfather
    • By Mozzfather 9th Aug 18, 2:36 PM
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    Mozzfather
    Pension Credit - with house
    • #1
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:36 PM
    Pension Credit - with house 9th Aug 18 at 2:36 PM
    Hi My parents are splitting in the mid 70's. They own a bungalow and my mum wants to sign her half of the the house over to myself and siblings so my father can continue to live in it - as he has restricted mobility. Currently the house is an asset for pension credit but if my mother does this can she access pension credit - or is this seen as deprivation of assets?

    Any advice would be so welcome as we are just trying to find a way to keep dad in the bungalow..

    Many thanks
Page 1
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 9th Aug 18, 2:41 PM
    • 6,277 Posts
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    marliepanda
    • #2
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:41 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:41 PM
    Almost certainly. Is there no way for you to actually buy it off her rather than it being gifted.

    I could MAYBE see her signing it over to your dad, but not to you. CHanged my mind.
    • Mozzfather
    • By Mozzfather 9th Aug 18, 2:50 PM
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    Mozzfather
    • #3
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:50 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:50 PM
    Many thanks....Who would be need to find out from - assume financial adviser is more to do with investments than benefits...
    • Ames
    • By Ames 9th Aug 18, 2:55 PM
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    Ames
    • #4
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:55 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:55 PM
    It's not just an issue for pension credit, it could be seen as deprivation if she needs a care home in the near-ish future, and there could be implications for inheritance tax.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.
    • Mozzfather
    • By Mozzfather 9th Aug 18, 3:01 PM
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    Mozzfather
    • #5
    • 9th Aug 18, 3:01 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Aug 18, 3:01 PM
    Care is unlikely in the next seven years and the amounts are well below inheritance tax (140K for her share - no other assets and 72.00 per week state pension)

    Thanks
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 9th Aug 18, 3:03 PM
    • 5,250 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    • #6
    • 9th Aug 18, 3:03 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Aug 18, 3:03 PM
    There is no need to sign the house over to anybody in order for you father to continue living there. If he is disabled he will in all probability be allowed to stay there and the property can be disregarded for benefit purposes. They need to get advice from Citizens Advice or similar before considering any changes.

    The one thing which is almost certain, signing her interest in the property over to her children would be classed as deprivation of capital and would have a serious effect on any later claim for income related benefits.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 9th Aug 18, 3:11 PM
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    marliepanda
    • #7
    • 9th Aug 18, 3:11 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Aug 18, 3:11 PM
    There is no need to sign the house over to anybody in order for you father to continue living there. If he is disabled he will in all probability be allowed to stay there and the property can be disregarded for benefit purposes. They need to get advice from Citizens Advice or similar before considering any changes.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    This is for a disabled relative, which Im not sure an ex husband would qualify as...
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 9th Aug 18, 3:14 PM
    • 29,604 Posts
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    Mojisola
    • #8
    • 9th Aug 18, 3:14 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Aug 18, 3:14 PM
    Care is unlikely in the next seven years and the amounts are well below inheritance tax (140K for her share - no other assets and 72.00 per week state pension)
    Originally posted by Mozzfather
    There is no seven year rule for deprivation - only for inheritance tax.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 9th Aug 18, 3:48 PM
    • 5,250 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    • #9
    • 9th Aug 18, 3:48 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Aug 18, 3:48 PM
    This is for a disabled relative, which Im not sure an ex husband would qualify as...
    Originally posted by marliepanda

    That's why I said to get advice. They are still currently married and separation, even permanent, doesn't necessarily always lead to divorce.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 9th Aug 18, 4:01 PM
    • 2,377 Posts
    • 2,760 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    Re entitlement to PC look at:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/687298/pension-credit-detailed-guide-pc10s.pdf
    P30 on deals with Capital disregards.


    Re "signing over"
    I presume they are tenants in common? Legal advice may be advisable.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 9th Aug 18, 4:18 PM
    • 26,107 Posts
    • 15,465 Thanks
    xylophone
    Do your parents own the bungalow as joint tenants or as tenants in common?

    Either way your father has the right to live in his home.

    Even were your parents to divorce I imagine that in view of his disability any settlement would give him the right to stay there.

    Remember the situation with regard to their wills if tenants-in-common.

    https://www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk/making-a-will/wills-and-tenants-in-common/

    https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs48_pension_credit_fcs.pdf
    • Mozzfather
    • By Mozzfather 9th Aug 18, 8:45 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    Mozzfather
    They are joint owners..
    • venison
    • By venison 9th Aug 18, 9:31 PM
    • 2,283 Posts
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    venison
    They need legal advice, nothing less.
    Former Board Guide
    • Mozzfather
    • By Mozzfather 10th Aug 18, 8:31 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Mozzfather
    I have asked a solicitor - he advised legal adviser
    I have asked a legal adviser - he advised solicitor.
    The legalities of transferring the ownership of the house is straightforward and amicable.

    The question is:- Will pension credit treat my mothers action as deprivation of assets?

    Do they ask about previous homes/assets in the same way the LA would for care provision. This is all I need to know and I am not sure a solicitor or a financial adviser would know the answer...
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 10th Aug 18, 8:56 AM
    • 5,250 Posts
    • 5,800 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    The question is:- Will pension credit treat my mothers action as deprivation of assets?

    Do they ask about previous homes/assets in the same way the LA would for care provision. This is all I need to know and I am not sure a solicitor or a financial adviser would know the answer...
    Originally posted by Mozzfather

    It's highly probable that transferring the property to yourself and your siblings would be treated as deprivation of capital. Nobody can say any more than that. I appreciate that you are asking specifically about Pension Credits but you need to look to the long term also. If you mother did need care provision in the future this action would almost certainly come back to bite her.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 10th Aug 18, 9:29 AM
    • 11,731 Posts
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    pmlindyloo
    Since your mother and father are joint tenants then your mother cannot transfer her share of the property to anyone else. In order to do so the ownership of the house would have to be changed to tenants in common in equal shares - has the solicitor not explained this?

    Th transference to tenants in common and then transferring to children would be perceived as deprivation of capital as your mother would be depriving herself of her capital by passing it to her children.

    Having said that, for Pension Credit purposes usually a jointly owned property is treated as 50/50 for capital purposes but can be disregarded for a period of time if that person is seeking legal advice about getting that capital - for instance by selling the property or forcing a sale where one party does not agree.

    But there is some flexibility here if the other person doesn't want to sell because of some specific reasons.

    That is why people are telling you to seek legal advice. A court could order that your father stays in the property until his death, for example. He could be forced to sell through a court order as well.

    There are different options here.

    What does your father want to do? Could he sell up and get sheltered accommodation or something similar? Have you spoken to the council about accommodation for your dad if he sells up? Where is your mother going to live?

    Put simply, your mother would be depriving herself of capital if she gave it away to her children. With that capital she would not need benefits. That is the argument.

    But the DWP do meet situations like this all the time , I am sure. You could write to Pension Credit, explain the situation and ask for some advice. A decision maker would then make a decision. Yes, your mum could claim PC with dad remaining in the property, no she couldn't unless she showed evidence of a court order etc etc.

    If the decision was positive and in writing then your mum could not be liable for deprivation of capital.

    More detail here:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/690030/dmgch84.pdf

    scroll down to 84697 and 84701
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