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  • FIRST POST
    • new1234
    • By new1234 9th Aug 18, 12:52 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 20Thanks
    new1234
    Dishonest parking charge UPKC
    • #1
    • 9th Aug 18, 12:52 PM
    Dishonest parking charge UPKC 9th Aug 18 at 12:52 PM
    Hi,

    I don't even know where to start with this one but i am really running out of patience and about to have a mental breakdown

    I have been trying to sort this out for the last 2 days and I already know that I have made some mistakes now that I gdiscover your forum and and gone through the newbies post.

    2 days ago I received a letter from Debt recovery Plus demanding payment for unpaid parking charge from UK Parking Control Ltd

    This letter came as a shock as to this date UKPC have failed to notify me that I received a Parking Charge Notice and that I owe them any money.
    The letter from debt collectors says they have tried to contact me previously however they were unable to get a response and now they used their tracking service to establish my new address.

    The parking charge date is 21/03/2018, I moved out of my house in June 2018, in that period of time I had no correspondence from UKPC, I am between house moves now, living in temporary accommodation ( house sell fell through, long story) and will be in my new house hopefully within the next 4 weeks.

    yes I changed the address but this doesn't change the fact that i haven't had any letters from them for 3 months.
    I also spoke to DVLA on 2 occasions and they confirmed that I do not need to change my address on the driving licence in the mean time.

    I have called Debt recovery Plus ( now I know I shouldn't have done ), they told me there is nothing I can do and that I overstayed at the car park for almost 24 hrs!! this is a pure lie, the car was possibly at the same car park ( shop ) 2 consecutive days on separate occasions but it was not left there for almost 2 days, looks like they are faking the parking charges again.

    Then I called the UKPC, i just called the number on their website and it took my though to their sales department, the guy gave me the right number but told me they are only open till 1pm ( and it was after 4pm ), surprise!

    Anyway, today I tried to ring them again - all I get is 'service is closed'. I cant find anything other number for them.
    I have also found some articles and info on this forum that UKPC have been previously suspended by DVLA for faking parking charges, I called DVLA they weren't much help in this instance and told me to seek legal advice from CAB and report the company to the police if I believe that UKPCs actions are a fraud.

    I called BPA who confirmed they were suspended but they are not suspended anymore.
    I called CAB - going to go to a drop in center tomorrow although your forum advises not to but honestly i dont know what to do anymore.

    I spoke to the police - they cant help as this is a civil matter, BMPS no longer exists.

    In the meantime i spoke to Debt Recovery Plus again and requested the photo evidence which they did not want to forward to me, after arguing with them they finally sent it to my email.
    Then within 10 mins I got a phone call from them saying they are now getting their solicitors involved ( even though the letter says i can pay within 2 weeks)

    Now I know how private parking companies work, that you can appeal with a template etc but this is different as I haven't had anything from them before and the parking charge is dishonest.
    The shop is down the road from my house, it was almost 6 months ago, I have no receipts, nothing to confirm I wasnt there overnight. in the morning of the 21st of March I did however go to drop my mum at the airport so there will be a record of me doing that somewhere I would imagine maybe cctv but I don't want to go down that line, I have got enough stress atm as it is and this threatening letter and phone call just took it to another level.

    Please hlep
Page 2
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Aug 18, 9:37 AM
    • 10,986 Posts
    • 10,953 Thanks
    The Deep
    Never phone a scammer, judges need paper trails.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • new1234
    • By new1234 10th Aug 18, 10:10 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    new1234
    I really hope it wont get to the stage of this going in front of the 'judges' i would be a nervous wreck by then!
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 10th Aug 18, 10:10 AM
    • 4,129 Posts
    • 4,996 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    No, they wont send the info via email
    They will accept a request over email, however will send a real letter.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 10th Aug 18, 10:10 AM
    • 37,999 Posts
    • 22,101 Thanks
    Quentin
    Never phone a scammer, judges need paper trails.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    DVLA won't like you calling them that!!
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 10th Aug 18, 10:14 AM
    • 37,999 Posts
    • 22,101 Thanks
    Quentin
    I really hope it wont get to the stage of this going in front of the 'judges' i would be a nervous wreck by then!
    Originally posted by new1234
    Firstly if it comes to that it will only be one judge.

    And nothing like a crown court you see on TV! More akin to an office meeting

    Definitely nothing to make you a wreck!!
    • new1234
    • By new1234 10th Aug 18, 10:27 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    new1234
    oh that's good, I also noticed something on the pictures the Debt Recovery Plus sent me that clearly indicates that the parking charge is fake but not sure if I can post on this forum in case they come on here and read the posts as well
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Aug 18, 11:19 AM
    • 20,577 Posts
    • 32,496 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    oh that's good, I also noticed something on the pictures the Debt Recovery Plus sent me that clearly indicates that the parking charge is fake but not sure if I can post on this forum in case they come on here and read the posts as well
    Originally posted by new1234
    Redact any identifiers, either electronically with software like 'Paint' or a belt and braces job by sticking pieces of PostIt here and there to hide the bits you wish to keep from prying eyes.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • new1234
    • By new1234 10th Aug 18, 11:37 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    new1234
    I wasn't going to post any pictures on here but basically they have 4 pictures: 1 is of my car going in, 2nd is of my car going out both with date and time, then the 3rd and 4th are just pics of my reg plates, 2 different pictures but both show the front ( white ) reg plate which you would think one should be white and the other one should be yellow.... not sure if this legally proves anything but for me its only an indication how false they actually are!!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Aug 18, 11:47 AM
    • 20,577 Posts
    • 32,496 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I wasn't going to post any pictures on here but basically they have 4 pictures: 1 is of my car going in, 2nd is of my car going out both with date and time, then the 3rd and 4th are just pics of my reg plates, 2 different pictures but both show the front ( white ) reg plate which you would think one should be white and the other one should be yellow.... not sure if this legally proves anything but for me its only an indication how false they actually are!!
    Originally posted by new1234
    They are standard ANPR shots. The close ups of the registration plate are just representations, with your VRM (captured by the camera) superimposed. Highly frustrating, but no get-out-of-jail-card. All PPCs using ANPR produce exactly the same.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 10-08-2018 at 11:49 AM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 10th Aug 18, 11:54 AM
    • 2,446 Posts
    • 4,072 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    Don't panic about this.

    But you need to understand the modus operandi of companies like this one.

    They will hound you for payment, sending letters talking about CCJs and how your credit will be destroyed. Remember that phone call you got saying "we're passing this to the solicitor now"? They heard the panic in your voice and they are trying to bully and scare you into paying. Block their number now to avoid them calling you again.

    Even where you have a good defence, they just keep going. They hope that you will get scared and give up and pay. Most will eventually issue a court claim against you. They hope that at that stage your panic levels will increase and you will pay up (many people do). They have 6 years within which to do this. If you move in the meantime, they make no effort to establish if your address is up to date and often people have these court claims go to default judgment without even knowing. So now you know, keep updating your address to them and keep the evidence you've done so. Also set up postal redirect and keep evidence you did so.

    Some parking companies hound you all the way, but stop short of going to court. You can look up how often your PPC goes to court by looking them up on the BMPA website.

    If you get a court claim, you have a good defence, and we will all help you through it.

    To focus your mind, do a bit of evidence gathering now, and when you get the next letter write to them to tell them why you say the charge is invalid. They will ignore you. When (if) you eventually get a claim then your defence will be what's in the letter.


    Your detective work to be done now:
    Try to work out if you went to the car park on two days running and roughly when that might have been.
    If you have an iPhone unless the feature is turned off, google maps tracks your movements. I'm not a techie so not sure how to find that information, but others on here know.
    Other options for showing where you were: you may have been at work with your car (get HR or your boss to confirm you were), you may have been visiting a friend or relative (have you got any texts or emails which would confirm this? At worst get a letter from them confirming you were visiting). You say you took your mum to the airport (don't worry about CCTV, you probably have texts to/from your mum - eg "are you on your way son/daughter, my flight leaves at x", "I'll be there in 5 minutes mum, just leaving now" - and your mum will have confirmation of her flight - gather all of that together now).


    If you did go there twice, this is what we call double dipping, where the cameras record you arriving on the first visit and leaving on the second, which leads to the assumption that your car remained there throughout. You must tell them this is what has happened, provide some evidence of where you were (with your car) and tell them to check their records which will show you leaving and then returning the following day.


    If you have evidence you think shows their photos are doctored, then tell them and why you believe this.


    The letter will go something like this:


    Dear Sirs


    I refer to parking charge xxxxx.


    There is no charge due from me to you. Please instruct your debt collection agents to stop contacting me and remove my data from your system and cease processing it. If you ignore this, you will be in breach of the Data Protection Act, which is a serious matter.


    The reason there is no charge due is because I did not overstay at the carpark, although I accept that I did visit it on x date [and if you went on the second day] and on y date, between the following times:
    x date: arrived at about x, left at about x
    y date: arrived at about x, left at about x


    Either your ANPR system has incorrectly functioned (for which ANPR systems are notorious) and has not registered my car leaving on x date and arriving on y date, or you have failed to read and assess its data properly.


    I can produce evidence that I was elsewhere and with my car between x o'clock on x date and x o'clock on y date, when you claim my car was parked in the car park. This is in the form of:
    - Google maps data showing where I was on the two days in question
    - Text messages/emails passing between me and my mother which show that on y date (when you claim my car was in the car park) I was driving my mother from her home in xxx to xxx airport to catch a flight which left at [time].
    - confirmation from my employers that I was at work between x and y on the dates in question (I commute to work in my car)
    - anything else you have to show you were elsewhere, eg bank statement entries of you spending money elsewhere.


    I am not going to pay this trumped up charge. If you believe you have a claim, then do not spend months and years writing me threatening letters, I invite you to just go ahead and issue a claim so that I can defend it.


    If you do continue to write to me, either yourselves or via agents or solicitors, then this will be harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act and it will be a breach of my rights under the Data Protection Act. Please be under no illusion that if you continue to pursue me then I reserve all my rights under this legislation to make a claim against you for damages and injunctive relief.




    Yours faithfully
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • new1234
    • By new1234 10th Aug 18, 1:08 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    new1234
    Thanks for this.

    Unfortunately I was on leave both days as my mum was visiting, i'm trying my hardest to remember what happened and going to go through my social media messages etc.

    Should i mention in this letter that I will go to the papers if they don't stop threatening me( there was an article about them in April 2018 about the DVLA suspension and them faking parking charges etc)
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 10th Aug 18, 1:22 PM
    • 4,129 Posts
    • 4,996 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Use your phone, it might show where you were.

    They really, really wont care about publicity threats.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 10th Aug 18, 1:47 PM
    • 9,661 Posts
    • 12,730 Thanks
    beamerguy

    Should i mention in this letter that I will go to the papers if they don't stop threatening me( there was an article about them in April 2018 about the DVLA suspension and them faking parking charges etc)
    Originally posted by new1234
    If this goes to court and of course you will win, that is the time
    to go to the press. They love stories about the scammer UKPC
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • new1234
    • By new1234 13th Aug 18, 9:55 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    new1234
    Hi,

    Just a quick question - are you saying I should wait for another letter from them and then send it? or should I send it to UKPC now? Debt recovery+ have my new address but UKPC havent... so just wondering if I should maybe send it now and put my new address on there?

    Thanks
    • new1234
    • By new1234 13th Aug 18, 11:06 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    new1234
    Also just found a full timeline from both days when i was apparently parked at the shop and it shows i was there for a short period of time 2 consecutive days, it also shows all the other shops I've been to and my trip to the airport!!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Aug 18, 11:08 AM
    • 20,577 Posts
    • 32,496 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Loc123 is a practising solicitor, so I would heed what she is saying.

    Any court proceedings will emanate from UKPC, not DRP, so they need to be made aware of any new address. But don't just put your new address at the top of your letter and hope they spot it, make it very clear somewhere in the body of the letter that there is a change of address and any future correspondence from UKPC or any of their agents must be sent to the new address.

    Send your letter with a free Certificate of Posting from your Post Office counter as with this, the letter is deemed by law to have been delivered by the second working day after posting.

    Do not use (or pay for!) 'Signed For' (previously known as 'Recorded' or 'Registered') or 'Special Delivery' as some PPCs refuse to accept such, then they can prove the letter has not been received.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 13-08-2018 at 11:10 AM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • new1234
    • By new1234 13th Aug 18, 11:17 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    new1234
    Thank you, and I am ok to put my full name on the letter as well? should I send it now or await further correspondence from them?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Aug 18, 11:22 AM
    • 20,577 Posts
    • 32,496 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I am ok to put my full name on the letter as well?
    Why would you hide that? Have I missed something here?
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • new1234
    • By new1234 13th Aug 18, 11:33 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    new1234
    No, I am just making sure I am doing everything by the book so they cant catch me out.

    Thank you so much for your advice everyone
    • Castle
    • By Castle 13th Aug 18, 11:53 AM
    • 2,102 Posts
    • 2,822 Thanks
    Castle
    Also just found a full timeline from both days when i was apparently parked at the shop and it shows i was there for a short period of time 2 consecutive days, it also shows all the other shops I've been to and my trip to the airport!!
    Originally posted by new1234
    Speak with the Airport, they may have CCTV showing your vehicle.
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