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  • FIRST POST
    • JosephK
    • By JosephK 9th Aug 18, 12:28 PM
    • 32Posts
    • 14Thanks
    JosephK
    Help with deposit - Bank of Mum & Dad v Money Laundering
    • #1
    • 9th Aug 18, 12:28 PM
    Help with deposit - Bank of Mum & Dad v Money Laundering 9th Aug 18 at 12:28 PM
    Son & daughter-in-law buying 1st house and, as Bank of Mum & Dad do, we're giving some money towards deposit (not a big amount in this instance). Nothing different to what we've done before for our other son and for uni and weddings.

    However, on this occasion, we seem to be having to jump through hoops proving who we are, whether we have the money, where it came from, etc. What is the point, after all if the money was the proceeds of a bank robbery, I'm hardly going to say that on some paperwork I fill in.

    Maybe this is just a vent, but if I choose to spend my money how I choose so long as it's not illegal, why the faff - never had it before.
Page 1
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 9th Aug 18, 12:30 PM
    • 10,998 Posts
    • 14,488 Thanks
    hazyjo
    • #2
    • 9th Aug 18, 12:30 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Aug 18, 12:30 PM
    Updated money laundering regulations. It's much tighter than it ever was before. Your solicitor has no choice or the buck may stops with him if you were found to be laundering money and he'd not checked.
    2018 wins: Single Malt Whisky; theatre tickets; festival tickets; year of gin(!); shoes
    • Skippy13
    • By Skippy13 9th Aug 18, 12:37 PM
    • 143 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Skippy13
    • #3
    • 9th Aug 18, 12:37 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Aug 18, 12:37 PM
    Different circumstances but I was told by a conveyancer that I would need a letter from the donor confirming where the money had come from when we were looking to extend our lease and clear the mortgage. That was after I'd specifically told them it was an inheritance...


    In the end we sorted out the mortgage ourselves and neither bank asked where the money was coming from.
    • CarbonImage
    • By CarbonImage 9th Aug 18, 1:02 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    CarbonImage
    • #4
    • 9th Aug 18, 1:02 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Aug 18, 1:02 PM
    Afraid this is how it works these days. My parents gifted me part of my deposit and were very upset about all the information they had to provide - bank statements, signed letters, copies of passports with countersignature, etc. etc. Unfortunately though it's a legal requirement.

    If you genuinely have nothing to hide and you're happy to give the money, then your son and daughter in-law will really appreciate you going the extra 5 yards to get it over the line I'm sure.
    Mortgage
    [Jun 2017: 164,995 ] [Jun 2018: 161,238.46]
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 9th Aug 18, 2:02 PM
    • 8,811 Posts
    • 9,318 Thanks
    davidmcn
    • #5
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:02 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:02 PM
    if I choose to spend my money how I choose so long as it's not illegal, why the faff
    Originally posted by JosephK
    That's fine, but they need to be satisfied that it is your money. Just because it's gone through your account doesn't mean it's really yours.
    • JuicyJesus
    • By JuicyJesus 9th Aug 18, 2:09 PM
    • 3,307 Posts
    • 3,652 Thanks
    JuicyJesus
    • #6
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:09 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:09 PM
    Just as a point of fact, the point of questioning and asking for evidence for AML isn't to get people to disclose that they're a bank robber or drug dealer - as you rightfully say, nobody is going to do that. What the aim is to do is to substantiate the trail of money and ensure that the source of funds itself isn't suspicious - for instance, if your account has lots of large transctions in and out to different places, and you then send the money for the deposit, that could be the trail being obscured. Or if the entire source of funds was cash deposits at bank branches around the country, or other similarly untraceable transactions, that would be suspicious.

    The requirements are stringent precisely because what money laundering is isn't outwardly saying you robbed your local Post Office, it's obscuring the trail of money that's come from robbing your local Post Office, or selling drugs, or selling weapons, or other illegal actions. There seems to be a reaction to these checks by people that those carrying them out are suspicious of them or accusing them of something untoward, when in reality routine checks like this are (usually) more about confirming that everything is OK and above board than it is about any concrete suspicion.
    urs sinserly,
    ~~joosy jeezus~~
    • JosephK
    • By JosephK 9th Aug 18, 2:13 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    JosephK
    • #7
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:13 PM
    Help with deposit - Bank of Mum & Dad v Money Laundering
    • #7
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:13 PM
    Aye, and arguably just because I say it's mine doesn't mean it is mine. The manner in which Money Laundering regs are being applied turns on its head one of the basic principles of English law. You are now deemed guilty until you can prove yourself innocent
    • parkrunner
    • By parkrunner 9th Aug 18, 2:25 PM
    • 1,466 Posts
    • 2,377 Thanks
    parkrunner
    • #8
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:25 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:25 PM
    Aye, and arguably just because I say it's mine doesn't mean it is mine. The manner in which Money Laundering regs are being applied turns on its head one of the basic principles of English law. You are now deemed guilty until you can prove yourself innocent
    Originally posted by JosephK

    Which part of English Law is being turned on it's head?
    • JuicyJesus
    • By JuicyJesus 9th Aug 18, 2:30 PM
    • 3,307 Posts
    • 3,652 Thanks
    JuicyJesus
    • #9
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:30 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Aug 18, 2:30 PM
    Aye, and arguably just because I say it's mine doesn't mean it is mine. The manner in which Money Laundering regs are being applied turns on its head one of the basic principles of English law. You are now deemed guilty until you can prove yourself innocent
    Originally posted by JosephK
    Nope, you're still innocent, and there's no assumption that you're "guilty" until there's actually some reason to think that there's a suspicion of "guilt". You are simply providing documentation to validate what you're saying about your source of funds. That's all it is.

    Of course, refusing to provide such documentation is quite odd and does just draw attention to yourself as someone with something to hide.

    And, of course, this has nothing to do with innocence or guilt, given this is a documentary exercise rather than a criminal investigation and court case.
    urs sinserly,
    ~~joosy jeezus~~
    • lookstraightahead
    • By lookstraightahead 9th Aug 18, 2:45 PM
    • 476 Posts
    • 447 Thanks
    lookstraightahead
    We have to all prove things in all kinds of ways. My daughter gets hacked off that she has to prove her age when buying alcohol.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 9th Aug 18, 2:48 PM
    • 33,283 Posts
    • 20,101 Thanks
    getmore4less
    There should be no need for AML checks between UK banks as the source bank should have done the necessary checks on the money going in.

    If you get it far enough in advance, spend it, convert earnings to savings no need for checks on a chunk of the money.
    • JuicyJesus
    • By JuicyJesus 9th Aug 18, 2:54 PM
    • 3,307 Posts
    • 3,652 Thanks
    JuicyJesus
    There should be no need for AML checks between UK banks as the source bank should have done the necessary checks on the money going in.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    We've been over this before on this forum, and this contention was as much b*llocks then as it is now.

    Were what you were saying correct, that would mean that no money could ever be laundered, ever, in the United Kingdom. That's nonsense. Not least because banks do not check literally every single transaction going into a bank account, and the whole point of money laundering is to try and make transactions with illegitimate origins look normal and thus not suspicious. Were what you saying even remotely true, it would demand that banks be far, far, far more intrusive and overbearing than they currently are.

    I would strongly suggest you do some research into the concept of placement, layering and integration because you don't seem to understand what money laundering is.
    Last edited by JuicyJesus; 09-08-2018 at 3:01 PM.
    urs sinserly,
    ~~joosy jeezus~~
    • cjdavies
    • By cjdavies 9th Aug 18, 3:53 PM
    • 3,583 Posts
    • 3,888 Thanks
    cjdavies
    If you don't like it don't gift it!!
    • mrginge
    • By mrginge 9th Aug 18, 4:21 PM
    • 4,673 Posts
    • 8,868 Thanks
    mrginge
    I would rather we try and catch money launderers rather than not bother because we don!!!8217;t want to upset a few people.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 9th Aug 18, 4:42 PM
    • 22,563 Posts
    • 11,187 Thanks
    lisyloo
    I agree with you but aren't they looking in the wrong place?
    Criminals launder money through cash based business e.g. take aways



    Hassling people using high st bank accounts seems to be strange as drug dealers aren't going to use their local branch of nat west.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 9th Aug 18, 4:47 PM
    • 8,811 Posts
    • 9,318 Thanks
    davidmcn
    I agree with you but aren't they looking in the wrong place?
    Criminals launder money through cash based business e.g. take aways

    Hassling people using high st bank accounts seems to be strange as drug dealers aren't going to use their local branch of nat west.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    No, but they might give their cash to someone with a cleaner reputation, who deposits it into their bank, and then sends it to their solicitors, who then use it to buy a house in their child's name, etc etc. All the layers help to hide where the funds really came from.

    Yes, it's all extra hassle for the rest of us, but there is logic in why these checks are being made.
    • ManAtHome
    • By ManAtHome 9th Aug 18, 5:55 PM
    • 8,182 Posts
    • 5,312 Thanks
    ManAtHome
    Hassling people using high st bank accounts seems to be strange as drug dealers aren't going to use their local branch of nat west.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    Well maybe not Nat West... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-banks-russia-money-laundering-hsbc-barclays-coutts-65-billion-rbs-royal-bank-of-scotland-queen-a7640861.html
    • mrginge
    • By mrginge 9th Aug 18, 6:24 PM
    • 4,673 Posts
    • 8,868 Thanks
    mrginge
    I agree with you but aren't they looking in the wrong place?
    Criminals launder money through cash based business e.g. take aways



    Hassling people using high st bank accounts seems to be strange as drug dealers aren't going to use their local branch of nat west.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    Life would be a lot easier if the money launderers agreed to just launder money through cash based businesses.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 9th Aug 18, 6:44 PM
    • 2,886 Posts
    • 2,866 Thanks
    steampowered
    There should be no need for AML checks between UK banks as the source bank should have done the necessary checks on the money going in.

    If you get it far enough in advance, spend it, convert earnings to savings no need for checks on a chunk of the money.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Imagine if every time you transferred money into a bank account, AML checks were required ...

    It makes perfect sense to do AML checks at the point of large purchases.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 9th Aug 18, 8:42 PM
    • 33,283 Posts
    • 20,101 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Imagine if every time you transferred money into a bank account, AML checks were required ...

    It makes perfect sense to do AML checks at the point of large purchases.
    Originally posted by steampowered
    How far back do the checks on money source have to go?
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