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  • FIRST POST
    • thejupiterwizard
    • By thejupiterwizard 7th Aug 18, 7:28 PM
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    thejupiterwizard
    Grievance Procedure - Please Help
    • #1
    • 7th Aug 18, 7:28 PM
    Grievance Procedure - Please Help 7th Aug 18 at 7:28 PM
    My wife has recently filed a grievance against her employer in regards to maternity discrimination.

    She was invited to a hearing and the Director had done no investigation and it was just a rehash of her grievance. She received an email some weeks later saying they didn't believe any wrongdoing took place. She then appealed this decision in writing (asking for copies of the investigation notes and the company policy they were following). Another Director was to carry out this meeting. Again she attended as this Director had none of the investigation notes and again it was just a rehash of the initial grievance. She adjourned the appeal asking again that this information be provided. However, some weeks later she received another email saying that he agreed with the investigation findings and the grievance was over (still the information hasn't been provided).

    Surely this isn't legal? How can an appeal be closed whilst adjourned?

    Any responses greatly appreciated, especially from those with a good knowledge of employment law.
    Last edited by thejupiterwizard; 07-08-2018 at 8:06 PM. Reason: Additions
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Page 1
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 8th Aug 18, 6:51 AM
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    FBaby
    • #2
    • 8th Aug 18, 6:51 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Aug 18, 6:51 AM
    She needs to read the grievance policy but in most cases, appeal of grievances are to consider when an error to follow the correct procedure has been made in dealing with the grievance, not to give a second chance to go over the same things that have gone on during the grievance.
    • thejupiterwizard
    • By thejupiterwizard 8th Aug 18, 8:33 AM
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    thejupiterwizard
    • #3
    • 8th Aug 18, 8:33 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Aug 18, 8:33 AM
    She needs to read the grievance policy but in most cases, appeal of grievances are to consider when an error to follow the correct procedure has been made in dealing with the grievance, not to give a second chance to go over the same things that have gone on during the grievance.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    They have faied to provide a copy of the grievance policy. I'm dubious that they even have a policy.
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    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 8th Aug 18, 8:47 AM
    • 1,262 Posts
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    nicechap
    • #4
    • 8th Aug 18, 8:47 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Aug 18, 8:47 AM
    My wife has recently filed a grievance against her employer in regards to maternity discrimination.

    She was invited to a hearing and the Director had done no investigation and it was just a rehash of her grievance. She received an email some weeks later saying they didn't believe any wrongdoing took place. She then appealed this decision in writing (asking for copies of the investigation notes and the company policy they were following). Another Director was to carry out this meeting. Again she attended as this Director had none of the investigation notes and again it was just a rehash of the initial grievance. She adjourned the appeal asking again that this information be provided. However, some weeks later she received another email saying that he agreed with the investigation findings and the grievance was over (still the information hasn't been provided).

    Surely this isn't legal? How can an appeal be closed whilst adjourned?

    Any responses greatly appreciated, especially from those with a good knowledge of employment law.
    Originally posted by thejupiterwizard
    With respect, we are getting a third hand account of events.

    Is your wife not in a union? They would be best placed to have accompanied her to the hearing(s) and support her in her grievance.

    There is no single definition of a grievance procedure. It sounds that you (or is it your wife?) don’t like the outcome. What do you (sorry, your wife) plan to do? Accept the outcome? Resign? Lobby for change for the future?
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
    • thejupiterwizard
    • By thejupiterwizard 8th Aug 18, 10:07 AM
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    thejupiterwizard
    • #5
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:07 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:07 AM
    With respect, we are getting a third hand account of events.

    Is your wife not in a union? They would be best placed to have accompanied her to the hearing(s) and support her in her grievance.

    There is no single definition of a grievance procedure. It sounds that you (or is it your wife?) don’t like the outcome. What do you (sorry, your wife) plan to do? Accept the outcome? Resign? Lobby for change for the future?
    Originally posted by nicechap
    No she isn't in a Union, unfortunately. We've filed with ACAS and we'll see how that goes. Although with the tribunal system as it is, could be a very long wait.
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    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 8th Aug 18, 10:34 AM
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    nicechap
    • #6
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:34 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:34 AM
    No she isn't in a Union, unfortunately. We've filed with ACAS and we'll see how that goes. Although with the tribunal system as it is, could be a very long wait.
    Originally posted by thejupiterwizard
    What do you expect ACAS to be able to do regarding a maternity discrimination grievance which has been completed?

    What was the nature of the maternity discrimination?
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 8th Aug 18, 11:31 AM
    • 5,086 Posts
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    sangie595
    • #7
    • 8th Aug 18, 11:31 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Aug 18, 11:31 AM
    What do you expect ACAS to be able to do regarding a maternity discrimination grievance which has been completed?

    What was the nature of the maternity discrimination?
    Originally posted by nicechap
    ^^^ This^^^

    You are asking for advice on a "theoretical position". That is inevitably not going to get you any advice worth having. An employer doesn't need to have a grievance policy, just to deal with it. They don't need have an investigation. And they don't need to provide notes for something. You are complaining about things they don't have to do, and I'm assuming doing so based on your own experience of what your own employer(s) would do. So toy are asking us for advice on things they don't have too do, and that is just so much "theory".

    The actual issue is, I assume, whether discrimination took place. The employer says it didn't... That was their finding, and in giving you that finding, having considered her arguments, and allowed an appeal and upheld the decision, they have conformed with the legal requirement. Now that doesn't mean that discrimination took place, nor that it didn't. We couldn't possibly guess. But a grievance was had, an appeal was had. The fact you didn't like the way it was "had" is irrelevant to anything!
    • thejupiterwizard
    • By thejupiterwizard 9th Aug 18, 8:17 PM
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    thejupiterwizard
    • #8
    • 9th Aug 18, 8:17 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Aug 18, 8:17 PM
    ^^^ This^^^

    You are asking for advice on a "theoretical position". That is inevitably not going to get you any advice worth having. An employer doesn't need to have a grievance policy, just to deal with it. They don't need have an investigation. And they don't need to provide notes for something. You are complaining about things they don't have to do, and I'm assuming doing so based on your own experience of what your own employer(s) would do. So toy are asking us for advice on things they don't have too do, and that is just so much "theory".

    The actual issue is, I assume, whether discrimination took place. The employer says it didn't... That was their finding, and in giving you that finding, having considered her arguments, and allowed an appeal and upheld the decision, they have conformed with the legal requirement. Now that doesn't mean that discrimination took place, nor that it didn't. We couldn't possibly guess. But a grievance was had, an appeal was had. The fact you didn't like the way it was "had" is irrelevant to anything!
    Originally posted by sangie595
    She was denied the opportunity of applying for a Promotion to a job she had been promised (in past appraisal documents), she was not informed of any changes in the business whilst on Maternity leave, the job was not adverstised internally/externally and the person appointed happened to be an in-law. My wifes contract clearly states that any grievance would follow the grievances policy they have. Surely asking to see that document isn't unreasonable? The Director also agreed to provide these documents, which was clearly stated in the minutes sent to my wife (from said Director) before the Appeal was adjourned.

    My main question was how can an appeal be completed whilst adjourned? If it can, then the law is an !!!!

    Lobbying for change was a suggestion. I've since contacted both my MP and a candidate for the next election, who just happens to be Barrister who has fought such cases
    "Some debts are fun when you are acquiring them, but none are fun when you set about retiring them." - Ogden Nash

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    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Aug 18, 8:44 PM
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    sangie595
    • #9
    • 9th Aug 18, 8:44 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Aug 18, 8:44 PM
    She was denied the opportunity of applying for a Promotion to a job she had been promised I very much doubt that there was any legally binding promise. Was there? (in past appraisal documents), she was not informed of any changes in the business whilst on Maternity leave ? There's no legal requirement to do so. What was she expecting?, the job was not adverstised internally/externally It doesn't have to be.and the person appointed happened to be an in-law And that's perfectly lawful. My wifes contract clearly states that any grievance would follow the grievances policy they have. Surely asking to see that document isn't unreasonable? The Director also agreed to provide these documents, which was clearly stated in the minutes sent to my wife (from said Director) before the Appeal was adjourned.

    My main question was how can an appeal be completed whilst adjourned? If it can, then the law is an !!!! The law has nothing to do with it! Ann emptier is obligated to manage a grievance. They aren't obligated to conduct it in any way whatsoever

    Lobbying for change was a suggestion. I've since contacted both my MP and a candidate for the next election, who just happens to be Barrister who has fought such cases
    Originally posted by thejupiterwizard
    What cases? I'm sorry but the fact is that she submitted a grievance saying that she didn't get a petition that she wasn't legally entitled to, that the employer didn't advertise it even though they didn't have to, and they didn't tell her about this even though they didn't have to. You're going to struggle with demonstrating that she was discriminated against if that's all you've got.

    There's a difference in employment between legally fair and "fair". It might not be fair, but everything you've described here is legally fair. I see no discrimination.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 10th Aug 18, 7:52 AM
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    FBaby
    There's a difference in employment between legally fair and "fair". It might not be fair, but everything you've described here is legally fair. I see no discrimination.
    This quote should be made to be a sticky.

    Hard to swallow, but the reality of life, unfortunately one that most people fail to grasp.
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 10th Aug 18, 9:29 AM
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    nicechap
    OP, before you get into too much of a tizz about whether the grievance process was sufficient or not, have a read through these 2 threads, one might even have been started by your wife as essentially same problem, not getting a verbally promised promotion.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5717050

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5857485
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
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