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  • FIRST POST
    • FIRSTTIMER
    • By FIRSTTIMER 7th Aug 18, 5:33 PM
    • 414Posts
    • 63Thanks
    FIRSTTIMER
    Can you use a CETV from an old pension to buy additional pension...
    • #1
    • 7th Aug 18, 5:33 PM
    Can you use a CETV from an old pension to buy additional pension... 7th Aug 18 at 5:33 PM
    In either the TPS/UPSS Schemes, if youíve missed the boat of transferring in with 12 months of joining these schemes? Could the CETV purchase additonal pension instead.
Page 1
    • FIRSTTIMER
    • By FIRSTTIMER 8th Aug 18, 8:22 AM
    • 414 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    FIRSTTIMER
    • #2
    • 8th Aug 18, 8:22 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Aug 18, 8:22 AM
    Anyone any advice on this? As I!!!8217;ve missed the cut off date to transfer in - can I buy additional pension instead and use the small amount left over and put it into a SIPP? Is this within the rules?
    • Dox
    • By Dox 8th Aug 18, 9:00 AM
    • 1,018 Posts
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    Dox
    • #3
    • 8th Aug 18, 9:00 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Aug 18, 9:00 AM
    Your question isn't clear. Perhaps ask the administrators of TPS/UPSS - give them a ring and you can then explain what you mean.
    • LHW99
    • By LHW99 8th Aug 18, 9:00 AM
    • 1,580 Posts
    • 1,451 Thanks
    LHW99
    • #4
    • 8th Aug 18, 9:00 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Aug 18, 9:00 AM
    What exactly do you mean to do? Have you already transferred the old FS CETV to some DC scheme? or are you wanting to transfer directly out of the FS?
    If the former, you wouldn't be able to take anything out as cash before age 55, and after that if you took more than the TFLS you would be restricted to £4k gross pension contribution going forward.
    If the latter, presumably its the same situation as "transfer in to the TPS"
    (not that I'm any expert)
    • FIRSTTIMER
    • By FIRSTTIMER 8th Aug 18, 10:09 AM
    • 414 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    FIRSTTIMER
    • #5
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:09 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:09 AM
    Basically,

    You can only transfer in an old pension into a government pension within the first 12 months of service - as Iíve missed that. Can i use the transfer value to purchase one of the flexibilityís instead such as buying additional pension?

    Thanks.
    • Asghar
    • By Asghar 8th Aug 18, 11:02 AM
    • 216 Posts
    • 142 Thanks
    Asghar
    • #6
    • 8th Aug 18, 11:02 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Aug 18, 11:02 AM
    Basically,
    You can only transfer in an old pension into a government pension within the first 12 months of service - as Iíve missed that. Can i use the transfer value to purchase one of the flexibilityís instead such as buying additional pension?
    Thanks.
    Originally posted by FIRSTTIMER
    What government pension?
    The only government pension is the state pension and you cannot transfer into it. It is a benefit which you receive when you retire and the amount paid depends on the number of qualifying years of National Insurance contributions you have made.
    • Dox
    • By Dox 8th Aug 18, 11:30 AM
    • 1,018 Posts
    • 795 Thanks
    Dox
    • #7
    • 8th Aug 18, 11:30 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Aug 18, 11:30 AM
    Basically,

    You can only transfer in an old pension into a government pension within the first 12 months of service - as Iíve missed that. Can i use the transfer value to purchase one of the flexibilityís instead such as buying additional pension?

    Thanks.
    Originally posted by FIRSTTIMER
    You can transfer a CETV to any registered pension scheme (including a SIPP, which will give you flexibility in terms of how you draw the benefits) which will accept it.

    If the CETV is £30,000 of more, the trustees of your old scheme will need proof that you have received (although not necessarily followed) advice from a properly qualified and regulated individual.
    • LHW99
    • By LHW99 8th Aug 18, 12:08 PM
    • 1,580 Posts
    • 1,451 Thanks
    LHW99
    • #8
    • 8th Aug 18, 12:08 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Aug 18, 12:08 PM
    And as Dox said:
    Perhaps ask the administrators of TPS/UPSS - give them a ring and you can then explain what you mean.
    It would be up to the receiving scheme whether they would accept it, and you would presumably need to make it clear that you are not talking about the main scheme, but one of the other options.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 8th Aug 18, 12:33 PM
    • 27,657 Posts
    • 16,613 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #9
    • 8th Aug 18, 12:33 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Aug 18, 12:33 PM
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74621421#post74621421

    Post 9 - assuming this is the same pension, you had been advised to leave it deferred in the old scheme?
    • FIRSTTIMER
    • By FIRSTTIMER 8th Aug 18, 1:31 PM
    • 414 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    FIRSTTIMER
    Thanks for all this. Another advisor looked at it and said that i could potentially buy additional pension instead which is more worthwhile as TPS/USS quote is locked at todays prices. Value of 42k lump sum for their maximum £6750 additional pension allowance, which is two thirds of my CETV and put the rest in a SIPP.

    My question is that is this allowed under HMRC/Tax/Recycling laws - TPS say you pay for additional pension however you like, but I am thinking this is a loophole which isnít permitted?
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 8th Aug 18, 1:47 PM
    • 27,657 Posts
    • 16,613 Thanks
    xylophone
    A pension transfer is not pension recycling.

    Have you checked with TPS that you can transfer in to Additional Pension?

    What would be the position with regard to the advice requirement for the transfer out of the deferred DB scheme?

    Would the administrators of the DB Scheme be prepared to transfer to two schemes?
    • woolly_wombat
    • By woolly_wombat 8th Aug 18, 1:57 PM
    • 604 Posts
    • 415 Thanks
    woolly_wombat
    You were advised to leave your old final salary pension where it was.

    You are only in your 30s so you couldn't transfer that old pension to a personal pension and withdraw some of the money to put it in your new pension (which would be a terrible idea anyway).

    The only way that I can see of freeing up some money to purchase additional pension in your new scheme is if you divert some of that £500 pm you are currently paying into an ISA.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74621421#post74621421

    Which appears to be exactly what dunstonh suggested.....bangs head against brick wall!
    Last edited by woolly_wombat; 08-08-2018 at 3:11 PM. Reason: Add xylophone's link and final sentence
    • FIRSTTIMER
    • By FIRSTTIMER 8th Aug 18, 3:08 PM
    • 414 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    FIRSTTIMER
    True.

    One advisor says this
    Leave as is

    One advisor says a way to maximise is to do what I have stated above.

    And you wonder why googling financial advisor advice for pension transfer is all political as no one is now looking at them. So pensions sit doing nothing as no one wants to pay for advice and then realise at 50, oh I should have done this at age 35.

    So yes, please continue banging head against wall.
    • woolly_wombat
    • By woolly_wombat 8th Aug 18, 3:19 PM
    • 604 Posts
    • 415 Thanks
    woolly_wombat

    One advisor says a way to maximise is to do what I have stated above.
    Originally posted by FIRSTTIMER
    But you have missed the transfer deadline (which you were advised not to do anyway).

    That would appear to be the only way to 'use the CETV from an old pension' as you put it.

    What exactly did the advisor say and have you got it in writing?

    I think something has got lost in translation.
    • FIRSTTIMER
    • By FIRSTTIMER 8th Aug 18, 3:51 PM
    • 414 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    FIRSTTIMER
    Well this thread is over - I!!!8217;ve got the final say from the pension gods. I cannot do a full 3 year buy out, full faster acrrual at 1/45 and full additional pension benefit via lump sum, as this will = way over maximum extra pension you can buy for retirement = £6800.
    Option 1
    3 buy out (already done) and pay a lump sum for the full additional pension benefit I can buy up to £6800 and I can NEVER do faster accrual

    OR

    Option 2 - advised the best one for me
    3 year buy out (already done) and pay maximum faster accrual (1/45) monthly until retire or the maximum amount of extra pension I can buy has been reached (currently £6800).

    Option 3
    Combination of all three - but hard to calculate and manage yearly due to salary changes all the time.

    There was me thinking I could do all three! Ahh well, LISA and S&S ISA staying as is. #happy saving everyone.
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