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  • FIRST POST
    • sebastianvettel
    • By sebastianvettel 7th Aug 18, 4:40 PM
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    sebastianvettel
    VCS ANPR ticket LBC received
    • #1
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:40 PM
    VCS ANPR ticket LBC received 7th Aug 18 at 4:40 PM
    Hi everyone. I've just received an LBC from VCS. I've received debt recovery letter from both DRP and Zenith. I've responded robustly to the first one from DRP and ignored the second one from Zenith. As an ANPR ticket (no window ticket), the NTK was issued after day 14 so I believe it's a 99.9% win chance even at court stage. The key fact is I've left UK a couple of days ago and I need to tell them the change of address to a foreign country (Non-EU and my visa has expired). I know that I need to inform them of the change of address. So what should I do next? Shall I mention the change of address when I replying to the LBC or do it separately?
    Many thanks!
    Last edited by sebastianvettel; 08-08-2018 at 3:24 PM.
Page 1
    • sebastianvettel
    • By sebastianvettel 8th Aug 18, 3:26 PM
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    sebastianvettel
    • #2
    • 8th Aug 18, 3:26 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Aug 18, 3:26 PM
    Can anyone help? I'm stuck with the content of the reply. And I'll be back in the UK so probably if it was taken to court stage I would be there.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Aug 18, 3:44 PM
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    Quentin
    • #3
    • 8th Aug 18, 3:44 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Aug 18, 3:44 PM
    It doesn't matter as long as you give them it.

    Ignore drp!

    Only respond to the lbcca from VCS, never respond to debt collectors
    • sebastianvettel
    • By sebastianvettel 8th Aug 18, 3:49 PM
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    sebastianvettel
    • #4
    • 8th Aug 18, 3:49 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Aug 18, 3:49 PM
    Thank you for that. I'm gonna give them the new address and point out the breach of POFA 2012.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Aug 18, 4:15 PM
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    Quentin
    • #5
    • 8th Aug 18, 4:15 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Aug 18, 4:15 PM
    See the newbies faq thread near the top of the forum for advice (#2 there covers court claims right from receipt of the LBCCA - including rebuttal letters)
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 8th Aug 18, 5:06 PM
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    The Deep
    • #6
    • 8th Aug 18, 5:06 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Aug 18, 5:06 PM
    Of course you should inform them, by post and email, and your local court. court.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    Last edited by The Deep; 08-08-2018 at 5:08 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Aug 18, 5:17 PM
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    Quentin
    • #7
    • 8th Aug 18, 5:17 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Aug 18, 5:17 PM
    Of course you should inform them, by post and email, and your local court. court.....
    ..
    Originally posted by The Deep
    A letter to the PPC after each move will suffice.

    Email if you wish but use a disposable email address rather than your own normal one

    The local court won't keep this information!! They are overwhelmed as it is and simply couldn't be keeping a record of anyone with an outstanding parking invoice notifying them they had moved into the local area!!
    • sebastianvettel
    • By sebastianvettel 8th Aug 18, 5:53 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    sebastianvettel
    • #8
    • 8th Aug 18, 5:53 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Aug 18, 5:53 PM
    Thanks, everyone. I've read through the NEWBIE thread and copied one of these reply, add the address change part. I've checked and did found that the LBC was not complied with the Practice Direction. And I'm going to both post this letter and email it to them.

    Ref: XXX

    Dear XXX

    Thank you for your Letter Before Claim.
    First, Id like to inform you of the change of address. The NEW address will be effective from 8th Aug 2018. Full address: XXX.
    Secondly, the alleged debt is disputed, and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

    Third, the letter is not fully compliant with the Practice Direction and appears to be a deliberate attempt to mislead the recipient.

    Please therefore provide a Letter Before Claim which complies with the requirements of Annex A Para 2 of the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct:

    (Link cannot be added as I'm a new user)

    I confirm that I shall then seek advice and submit a formal Response within 30 days of receipt, as required by the Practice Direction.

    Please ensure that someone does actually read and respond to this letter, providing the specific information relating to the county court claim that your client intends to make against myself as the defendant to the proposed legal proceedings. Please DO NOT send a generic FAQ letter in reply as to do so does not meet the requirements of the Practice Direction and will take this matter no further forward.

    Please note, a refusal to comply with the Practice Direction will result in an immediate referral to the Solicitors Regulation Authority for breach of the Principles contained in the SRA Handbook version 8, published on 1st October 2013.

    I trust this will not be necessary and look forward to receiving a fully compliant letter before claim in due course.

    Yours faithfully
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Aug 18, 5:57 PM
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    Quentin
    • #9
    • 8th Aug 18, 5:57 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Aug 18, 5:57 PM
    Are you sure you have received a LBC?


    Who from?


    How long did they give you to pay and were there any forms enclosed for you to return?
    • sebastianvettel
    • By sebastianvettel 8th Aug 18, 6:03 PM
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    sebastianvettel
    Yes, it's titled in red and it's from VCS Litigation Department. They gave me 30 days to pay. ANNEX 1(information sheet) & 2 (financial situation) included according to PRE-ACTION PROTOCOL FOR DEBT CLAIMS.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Aug 18, 6:31 PM
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    Quentin
    Ok. This is a lbcca.

    But send a letter of rebuttal and don't complete their forms
    • sebastianvettel
    • By sebastianvettel 8th Aug 18, 6:37 PM
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    sebastianvettel
    Ok. This is a lbcca.

    But send a letter of rebuttal and don't complete their forms
    Originally posted by Quentin
    Thanks. I think that template I copied was sufficient and I'm gonna send them that. If they don't even bother sending me another one to the new address, then probably that's been thrown out.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Aug 18, 6:44 PM
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    KeithP
    The letter you are planning to send is way out of date.

    For a start, there hasn't been an Annex A in the Practice Direction for several years - at least three. It also fails to mention the Pre-Action Protocols for Debt Claims introduced in October 2017.

    Perhaps you should send one of the robust replies linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.
    .
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Aug 18, 8:41 PM
    • 36,820 Posts
    • 20,953 Thanks
    Quentin
    Thanks. I think that template I copied was sufficient and I'm gonna send them that. If they don't even bother sending me another one to the new address, then probably that's been thrown out.
    Originally posted by sebastianvettel
    Did you read the guidance of the second post in the newbies FAQ thread you were pointed to in #5 above

    See the section there on responding to lbccas .

    Start again on your rebuttal

    Put it up here for comments before sending it
    • sebastianvettel
    • By sebastianvettel 9th Aug 18, 7:05 AM
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    sebastianvettel
    Ref: XXX



    Dear Sirs,



    I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of XX July 2018.

    First, I!!!8217;d like to inform you the change of address. The NEW address will be effective from (DATE). Full address: XXX.

    With effect from the above date, any further communication from you and/or your agents must be sent to the new address, and under no circumstances should the former address be used.

    Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence you place reliance upon.



    You must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.



    Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires you to provide. You must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order you to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.



    As litigation department you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and you, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.



    Nobody is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

    I require you to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    1. an explanation of the cause of action

    2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper

    3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012

    4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated

    5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.

    6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.

    7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 establishing yourself as the creditor

    8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed

    9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)

    10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added

    11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form



    If you do not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on you and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.



    Until you have complied with your obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for you to issue proceedings. Should you do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.





    Yours faithfully


    -------------------------

    Actually I just copied from Daniel san's one and replaced all 'your client' with you (as it's sent from their litigation department). Any comment on that?
    Last edited by sebastianvettel; 09-08-2018 at 2:20 PM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Aug 18, 10:05 AM
    • 18,847 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    First, Id like to inform you the change of address. The NEW address will be effective from (DATE). Full address: XXX.
    I'd add (in bold) 'With effect from the above date, any further communication from you and/or your agents must be sent to the new address, and under no circumstances should the former address be used'.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 9th Aug 18, 1:10 PM
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    KeithP
    Until you have complied with its obligations...
    Originally posted by sebastianvettel
    Should be:
    Until you have complied with your obligations...
    .
    • sebastianvettel
    • By sebastianvettel 9th Aug 18, 2:20 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    sebastianvettel
    I'd add (in bold) 'With effect from the above date, any further communication from you and/or your agents must be sent to the new address, and under no circumstances should the former address be used'.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Thanks. I've updated that and sent them both a email and a letter.
    • sebastianvettel
    • By sebastianvettel 9th Aug 18, 2:22 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    sebastianvettel
    Should be:
    Until you have complied with your obligations...
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Thanks for pointing out. I've revised that.
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