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    • rippedoff16
    • By rippedoff16 7th Aug 18, 1:11 PM
    • 17Posts
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    rippedoff16
    Advice please on case regarding contracting with minors
    • #1
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:11 PM
    Advice please on case regarding contracting with minors 7th Aug 18 at 1:11 PM
    Hi There
    I am after a bit of advice please, hoping someone can help
    I will set the scene
    *17 Year old son, new to driving visits a fast food joint drive thru, pulls over in car park for 10 mins eats his food, fails to validate a ticket then leaves. he did this 2 nights running
    * 2 X PCNs arrive for 100 each
    * we appealed to Parking Company and it got rejected
    * we appealed to POPLA on basis of contract law. i.e a 17 year old, not commercially mature, is a Minor etc. Minors are able to void contracts on grounds of misunderstanding etc, this does not apply to contracts for necessaries eg, Employment, Accommodation etc
    *POPLA rejected this stating that parking is a necessary

    My question is this, UK contract law is quite specific, I feel that POPLA have misinterpreted this and as such I will not be paying the charge. I cannot find anyone else using this part of contract law as a defence and I am pretty sure that the parking company may not want to pursue in the courts for fear of setting a precedent ( i.e if they lose then all 17 year old drivers could use this as an angle)

    I now have 28 days to pay ( so the parking company say) before they take legal and recovery action.

    does anyone think I have a good chance here, is it worth me pursuing ?

    would be grateful if anyone knows of other cases
Page 1
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 7th Aug 18, 1:12 PM
    • 3,115 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    • #2
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:12 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:12 PM
    No, you can contract for neccessities when under 18. This is indeed clear. ]

    Which company is it?
    • rippedoff16
    • By rippedoff16 7th Aug 18, 1:16 PM
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    rippedoff16
    • #3
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:16 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:16 PM
    I am aware that under 18 you can contract for necessities, however is Parking a Necessity ?
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 7th Aug 18, 1:18 PM
    • 5,476 Posts
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    glentoran99
    • #4
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:18 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:18 PM
    I am aware that under 18 you can contract for necessities, however is Parking a Necessity ?
    Originally posted by rippedoff16


    Its pretty necessary unless you have a hover car
    • rippedoff16
    • By rippedoff16 7th Aug 18, 1:21 PM
    • 17 Posts
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    rippedoff16
    • #5
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:21 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:21 PM
    Ok Thanks, I was using the guidance below. But you seem to state otherwise

    The general law states that contracts entered into by children that are for necessaries are binding on children, as are those for apprenticeship, employment, education and service where they are rightly said to be for the benefit of the child.
    Contracts for necessaries are for such things as the supply of food, medicines, accommodation and clothing, but conveniences and products and services for comfort or pleasure are excluded, as are commercial or 'trading' contracts. These latter contracts are therefore voidable at the option of the minor.
    • Snakes Belly
    • By Snakes Belly 7th Aug 18, 1:26 PM
    • 127 Posts
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    Snakes Belly
    • #6
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:26 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:26 PM
    They might be on dangerous ground if they start to use debt recovery agents against a 17 year old.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 7th Aug 18, 1:28 PM
    • 4,219 Posts
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    Half_way
    • #7
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:28 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:28 PM
    who's car park ?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • rippedoff16
    • By rippedoff16 7th Aug 18, 1:30 PM
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    rippedoff16
    • #8
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:30 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:30 PM
    It was a McDonalds Car Park
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 7th Aug 18, 1:50 PM
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    KeithP
    • #9
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:50 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:50 PM
    Even if you were right to believe they cannot touch a minor, there is absolutely nothing stopping them waiting until he is 18 years old and pursuing him then.

    They have up to six years (in England and Wales) to chase an alleged debt through the courts.

    Your son is now at the Ignore Debt Collectors stage.
    Post #4 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread offers good guidance on how to deal with debt collectors' letters.
    Last edited by KeithP; 07-08-2018 at 1:52 PM.
    .
    • rippedoff16
    • By rippedoff16 7th Aug 18, 1:57 PM
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    rippedoff16
    Even if you were right to believe they cannot touch a minor, there is absolutely nothing stopping them waiting until he is 18 years old and pursuing him then.

    They have up to six years (in England and Wales) to chase an alleged debt through the courts.

    Your son is now at the Ignore Debt Collectors stage.
    Post #4 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread offers good guidance on how to deal with debt collectors' letters.
    Originally posted by KeithP

    I am aware, but again the law states that a Minor is able to Void the contract whilst a Minor and for a reasonable period afterwards. I forgot to mention that he has also written to the Parking company advising them that he is exercising his right to Void the contract. I think the law applies to his age at the time and not when he is 18. i.e he was incapable of understanding the terms when he was 17 so waiting 6 years would make no difference
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 7th Aug 18, 2:00 PM
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    KeithP
    Where does that quote in post #5 come from?

    Is it just someone's interpretation of the law?
    .
    • rippedoff16
    • By rippedoff16 7th Aug 18, 2:08 PM
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    rippedoff16
    Where does that quote in post #5 come from?

    Is it just someone's interpretation of the law?
    Originally posted by KeithP

    It was lifted off a UK Legal site, but appears in almost the same words on most legal interpretations of the Law. Just search "contracting with minors" and you will find similar

    I guess I was hoping that someone might know for sure what the definitions of "necessaries" are or if there have been any previous court cases related
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 7th Aug 18, 2:13 PM
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    Half_way
    10minutes is within the grace period, and as such no charge should have been issued.
    three could be a GDPR angle here, compounded by the fact that the individual is a minor (under 18)
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • rippedoff16
    • By rippedoff16 7th Aug 18, 2:22 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    rippedoff16
    10minutes is within the grace period, and as such no charge should have been issued.
    three could be a GDPR angle here, compounded by the fact that the individual is a minor (under 18)
    Originally posted by Half_way
    I had also forgotten to mention its a Free to Park - Car park limited to 60 Mins I think, but one still is expected to get, the ticket validated. whats crazy is that the carpark lets you out at the press of a button. Not once did the staff in the restaurant ask if he had a ticket to validate, which I think is unforgivable given that its location means that 99% of customers would go there in a car.

    Anyway thats besides the point, I still think there is merit in there Minor and Contact route
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 7th Aug 18, 2:42 PM
    • 36,845 Posts
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    Quentin

    Anyway thats besides the point, I still think there is merit in there Minor and Contact route
    Originally posted by rippedoff16
    You are now in the debt collector/wait and see


    #4 in the Newbies faq thread covers this


    You ignore the debt collectors


    If you get a claim then you will have the chance to see if a Judge agrees with you if you intend to defend solely on that point of 'merit'.
    • Snakes Belly
    • By Snakes Belly 7th Aug 18, 2:47 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 95 Thanks
    Snakes Belly
    Would a minor have the capacity to understand that by parking the car he was accepting the terms and conditions of the contract?
    Last edited by Snakes Belly; 07-08-2018 at 2:49 PM.
    • rippedoff16
    • By rippedoff16 7th Aug 18, 3:01 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    rippedoff16
    Would a minor have the capacity to understand that by parking the car he was accepting the terms and conditions of the contract?
    Originally posted by Snakes Belly

    Thank you, exactly the basis of the defence I am proposing. That is why a minor is protected in contract law to the detriment of the other party. ( Except for contracts for necessaries) of which I am arguing that Parking is Not

    He did not have capacity and as such has Voided the assumed contract
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 7th Aug 18, 3:08 PM
    • 8,684 Posts
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    KeithP
    Then your son will need some very good arguments that it is not necessary for the driver of a car to park it at some time or other.

    Your son will need to convince a judge.

    I would suggest that a judge could easily decide, on the balance of probabilities, that parking the car was a necessity.
    Last edited by KeithP; 07-08-2018 at 3:15 PM.
    .
    • timpster
    • By timpster 7th Aug 18, 3:21 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    timpster
    I looked into this a while back for a similar situation regarding my son. I found a link to where a judge ruled against a similar defence cant remember the exact wording or link.

    However, it was along the lines of if hes responsible enough to own/drive a car then he is responsible enough to enter into a contract regarding its use.

    Car insurance is a contract and your son can have one of those, including all penalties associated with it.

    If the minor wishes to drive on the roads they accept responsibility they just cannot flout everything because of age.

    Needless to say, I dropped that angle and concentrated on more valid points.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 7th Aug 18, 3:26 PM
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    Half_way
    where was this Mc donalds? who's franchise is it?
    was the time in the car park just 10 minutes?
    dont get to tied up with contacts, go for the retailer(mc donalds franchise)

    And as far as gdpr goes, when dealing with minors things are a completely different ball game, as they have additional protections.

    all this can be used in a complaint to the franchisee with the aim of getting it cancelled
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
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