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  • FIRST POST
    • pjwhit
    • By pjwhit 7th Aug 18, 11:25 AM
    • 8Posts
    • 2Thanks
    pjwhit
    Additional deposit paid
    • #1
    • 7th Aug 18, 11:25 AM
    Additional deposit paid 7th Aug 18 at 11:25 AM
    Hi,

    we have been renting a property for over 2 years and last week moved out. When we took on the tenancy there was a problem identified in the credit checks and the only way to secure the property was to pay an additional 2 months security deposit (total 2685).

    We moved out last week and due to problems with the move we did not have enough time to move and clean as we would have needed. The landlord did not therefore carry out a full checkout with us but while handing keys back had discussed the property and we had a verbal agreement that there was cleaning, some gardening and a carpet issue to make provisions for. The final checkout (dated 3 days after we left) reads far worse than that.

    As a result we expected to lose some deposit to cover cleaning and general tidy up work and were willing to lose upto 500. (but expected the amount to be around half that).

    The landlord has proposed to withhold 2300!

    Before moving we attempted to get in a professional cleaning company and received 4 quotes but none could do the work at such short notice. The maximum quote we had was 80 (4 hours at 20 per hour ) so we proposed to allow 100, the landlord is quoting 300.

    The garden had been kept tidy but we hadnt managed to do a final mow and weed so we proposed a couple of hours work at 10 p/h. Landlord is quoting 150 and saying there is a need to cut bushes back to how they like them etc. We argue that the bushes are fine and its down to personal taste rather than a need.

    Before leaving we paid a handyman 60 to clear out a shed and remove the stuff to the local tip, the landlord was aware of this however after leaving they have taken photos before he removed the stuff and are quoting another 100 for that.

    As part of our agreement we fitted a carpet at our expense in our sons room, the tenancy notes this and says it is to become part of the fixtures & fittings, a run has appeared in this otherwise spotless carpet and they are now quoting 200 to replace it (it cost us 80 originally).

    We got a professional carpet cleaner in on the last day of the tenancy however the landlord had told us the sitting room was being replaced and to save ourselves the trouble & cost of cleaning it. We therefore only had the other 3 carpets cleaned, 2 bedrooms and stairs. They are not happy with the job done and are including additional costs for cleaning and to replace the stair carpet (see below).

    Stair carpet - there was a stain on the upstairs landing that the cleaner could not get out, we therefore agreed that there would be a cost for this, they are quoting 550 to replace the stair carpet in full and match it into their new sitting room carpet (it didnt match originally). We argue that a) there should be a reduction for normal wear and tear and b) we shouldnt be paying the full cost of a new carpet. We would be willing to pay around 150.

    There were the usual holes in walls from shelves etc that had been removed, again before leaving we had agreed with a handyman (known to the landlord) that he would do the work and agreed a price of 60. The landlord is now quoting much higher amounts to redecorate entire rooms based on holes in a single wall etc.

    My questions are numerous ie where do we generally stand in the above examples? and more importantly is the issue of the additional deposit.

    The extra 2 months were paid because due to the credit score we were seen as a risk of not paying the rent and therefore they were to cover for that possibility. We have been faultless on the rent and were fully upto date when we left but are now likely to lose all of those savings because (I believe) the landlord has seen a chance here to recoup some losses from the property being empty. They have noted the report as the property will be off the market for 3 months due to the work being carried out yet it could all be done within a day or two (half a day deep clean) half day gardening and at most a day for repairs and new carpets. All of which would be done while the property was being marketed and there would not be any loss of rental (you;'d have to expect it would take a month to market, get a tenant and go through checks etc normally.

    We have provided counter arguments and our offer of 450 and are now expecting this to go to arbitration but really don't know what to expect.

    Any advice would be appreciated.
Page 1
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 7th Aug 18, 11:40 AM
    • 5,899 Posts
    • 6,187 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #2
    • 7th Aug 18, 11:40 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Aug 18, 11:40 AM
    Hi,

    we have been renting a property for over 2 years and last week moved out. When we took on the tenancy there was a problem identified in the credit checks and the only way to secure the property was to pay an additional 2 months security deposit (total 2685). - All protected?

    We moved out last week and due to problems with the move we did not have enough time to move and clean as we would have needed. - you had atleast 1 month.... The landlord did not therefore carry out a full checkout with us but while handing keys back had discussed the property and we had a verbal agreement that there was cleaning, some gardening and a carpet issue to make provisions for. The final checkout (dated 3 days after we left) reads far worse than that. - irrelevant. You took pictures presumably?

    As a result we expected to lose some deposit to cover cleaning and general tidy up work and were willing to lose upto 500. (but expected the amount to be around half that).

    The landlord has proposed to withhold 2300! - What for?

    Before moving we attempted to get in a professional cleaning company and received 4 quotes but none could do the work at such short notice. The maximum quote we had was 80 (4 hours at 20 per hour ) so we proposed to allow 100, the landlord is quoting 300. - so you couldn't be bothered to just clean it yourselves? 300 could be fair, most cleaners are 150-200 for a days work.

    The garden had been kept tidy but we hadnt managed to do a final mow and weed so we proposed a couple of hours work at 10 p/h. Landlord is quoting 150 and saying there is a need to cut bushes back to how they like them etc. We argue that the bushes are fine and its down to personal taste rather than a need. - It's down to maintenance, and again a gardener for a day is around 100-150. I doubt many would bother to even turn up for 20. You should really look into the cost of things. That said, it depends on how the garden was when you moved in

    Before leaving we paid a handyman 60 to clear out a shed and remove the stuff to the local tip, the landlord was aware of this however after leaving they have taken photos before he removed the stuff and are quoting another 100 for that. - You should've moved it out BEFORE you moved out.

    As part of our agreement we fitted a carpet at our expense in our sons room, the tenancy notes this and says it is to become part of the fixtures & fittings, a run has appeared in this otherwise spotless carpet and they are now quoting 200 to replace it (it cost us 80 originally). - Dispute it. Betterment

    We got a professional carpet cleaner in on the last day of the tenancy however the landlord had told us the sitting room was being replaced and to save ourselves the trouble & cost of cleaning it. We therefore only had the other 3 carpets cleaned, 2 bedrooms and stairs. They are not happy with the job done and are including additional costs for cleaning and to replace the stair carpet (see below). - did you get this in writing?

    Stair carpet - there was a stain on the upstairs landing that the cleaner could not get out, we therefore agreed that there would be a cost for this, they are quoting 550 to replace the stair carpet in full and match it into their new sitting room carpet (it didnt match originally). We argue that a) there should be a reduction for normal wear and tear and b) we shouldnt be paying the full cost of a new carpet. We would be willing to pay around 150. - agreed, this sounds like betterment

    There were the usual holes in walls from shelves etc that had been removed, again before leaving we had agreed with a handyman (known to the landlord) that he would do the work and agreed a price of 60. The landlord is now quoting much higher amounts to redecorate entire rooms based on holes in a single wall etc. - should've done it before moving

    My questions are numerous ie where do we generally stand in the above examples? . - above in red. and more importantly is the issue of the additional deposit

    The extra 2 months were paid because due to the credit score we were seen as a risk of not paying the rent and therefore they were to cover for that possibility. - that seems unlikely, letting agents don't see your actual credit report. I suspect you told them you had defaults etc. We have been faultless on the rent and were fully upto date when we left but are now likely to lose all of those savings because (I believe) the landlord has seen a chance here to recoup some losses from the property being empty. They have noted the report as the property will be off the market for 3 months due to the work being carried out yet it could all be done within a day or two (half a day deep clean) - so why didn't you do it in a day and a half? half day gardening and at most a day for repairs and new carpets. All of which would be done while the property was being marketed and there would not be any loss of rental (you;'d have to expect it would take a month to market, get a tenant and go through checks etc normally. - you are not liable for any void the landlord has. There is no PROVABLE loss

    We have provided counter arguments and our offer of 450 and are now expecting this to go to arbitration but really don't know what to expect.

    Any advice would be appreciated.
    Originally posted by pjwhit


    Yes your offer sounds about right. Wait for the scheme to decide.
    • Minkybob
    • By Minkybob 7th Aug 18, 11:45 AM
    • 81 Posts
    • 201 Thanks
    Minkybob
    • #3
    • 7th Aug 18, 11:45 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Aug 18, 11:45 AM
    You've tried to negotiate with the LL and should now refer it to the deposit registration scheme, assuming the LL registered your deposit. Going to arbitration is not a bad thing, it's good to have an independent mediator, who will ensure any deductions are evidenced and fair within the law etc.

    It's up to the LL to prove the damage and cost of making good, and as you mention you will not fund betterment of the property only the relative cost considering age, wear etc.

    You can help matters by collating information you have to submit, photos from before and after, an invoice for the carpet you bought, the handy man invoice, correspondence with the LL or EA. this will all help make your case.

    PS. there is a deadline to make a claim which I think is 6 weeks, either way don't delay too much.

    Best of luck
    "Meow meow meow? Meow meow-meow meow!" - Minkybob
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 7th Aug 18, 11:47 AM
    • 5,899 Posts
    • 6,187 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #4
    • 7th Aug 18, 11:47 AM
    • #4
    • 7th Aug 18, 11:47 AM
    You've tried to negotiate with the LL and should now refer it to the deposit registration scheme, assuming the LL registered your deposit. Going to arbitration is not a bad thing, it's good to have an independent mediator, who will ensure any deductions are evidenced and fair within the law etc.

    It's up to the LL to prove the damage and cost of making good, and as you mention you will not fund betterment of the property only the relative cost considering age, wear etc.

    You can help matters by collating information you have to submit, photos from before and after, an invoice for the carpet you bought, the handy man invoice, correspondence with the LL or EA. this will all help make your case.

    PS. there is a deadline to make a claim which I think is 6 weeks, either way don't delay too much.

    Best of luck
    Originally posted by Minkybob

    Or 6 years if going down small claims route.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 7th Aug 18, 12:44 PM
    • 17,052 Posts
    • 41,988 Thanks
    FBaby
    • #5
    • 7th Aug 18, 12:44 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Aug 18, 12:44 PM
    As a LL, I challenged a deposit return that went to the ADR. We showed the terms of the contract, check-in and check-out report (done the day after tenants left), pictures dated. We claimed and got 300 for the cleaning, 150 for the garden, 150 for carpet cleaning and a few other things. We showed invoices from reputable companies.

    So I think some of the LL's claims are reasonable, others are not.
    • pjwhit
    • By pjwhit 7th Aug 18, 1:36 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    pjwhit
    • #6
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:36 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:36 PM
    As a LL, I challenged a deposit return that went to the ADR. We showed the terms of the contract, check-in and check-out report (done the day after tenants left), pictures dated. We claimed and got 300 for the cleaning, 150 for the garden, 150 for carpet cleaning and a few other things. We showed invoices from reputable companies.

    So I think some of the LL's claims are reasonable, others are not.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    And that's the thing, we have no issues with paying what we legitimately owe (which we see as a deep clean (if thats 300 then fair enough), small gardening work and to pay toward a replacement carpet). We've already explained to the LL the situation and why it wasn't anywhere near the standard that we ourselves would expect but the belief that they can expect us to pay to return everything to brand new items just seems wrong.

    Oh I forgot to mention a big issue. There was a problem with a leaking toilet & bath which we raised to the LL 6 months ago, they got a plumber out who applied what he called a temporary fix but told us that the bathroom & boiler weren't fit for purpose and it was time they were replaced and would feed this back to the LL with a view to them agreeing the additional work to be carried out.

    We didn't hear anything more from them and didn't have any more visible leaks, they are now saying though that there was still a leak and it's our fault because we didn't notify them. Our argument is that the plumber was supposed to be feeding back the state of the room and it wasn't our place to chase them up to replace the bathroom especially as it appeared to still be fixed.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 7th Aug 18, 1:39 PM
    • 5,899 Posts
    • 6,187 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #7
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:39 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Aug 18, 1:39 PM
    And that's the thing, we have no issues with paying what we legitimately owe (which we see as a deep clean (if thats 300 then fair enough), small gardening work and to pay toward a replacement carpet). We've already explained to the LL the situation and why it wasn't anywhere near the standard that we ourselves would expect but the belief that they can expect us to pay to return everything to brand new items just seems wrong.

    Oh I forgot to mention a big issue. There was a problem with a leaking toilet & bath which we raised to the LL 6 months ago, they got a plumber out who applied what he called a temporary fix but told us that the bathroom & boiler weren't fit for purpose and it was time they were replaced and would feed this back to the LL with a view to them agreeing the additional work to be carried out.

    We didn't hear anything more from them and didn't have any more visible leaks, they are now saying though that there was still a leak and it's our fault because we didn't notify them. Our argument is that the plumber was supposed to be feeding back the state of the room and it wasn't our place to chase them up to replace the bathroom especially as it appeared to still be fixed.
    Originally posted by pjwhit
    Presumably you reported it in writing and can prove that.
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