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  • FIRST POST
    • Wildcat1990
    • By Wildcat1990 7th Aug 18, 9:25 AM
    • 8Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Wildcat1990
    Can my employer do this?
    • #1
    • 7th Aug 18, 9:25 AM
    Can my employer do this? 7th Aug 18 at 9:25 AM
    Good morning all. Sorry but I have a few questions about my place of employment and hope one of you could give me an answer. I work part time three days a week. 18 hours total.

    Firstly I was hired in February 2017 as an administrator for minimum wage. This became administration, recruitment and social media when my coworker left and my employer didnít want to hire someone else. I was given the tasks but told there was no money to increase pay. I left for all of a week before employer raised my wage to £8 p/h in August. Currently things have changed again.
    Iím now administrator
    Auditor
    Filing
    Recruitment
    Social media
    Policy writer
    Researcher
    Content writer
    Key worker
    Occasional diy expert, cook, cleaner or gardener


    None of this is ever agreed. Itís just assumed I will do it. Iíve said before this isnít on and if they want me doing other roles too then I want the pay to match. For the most part itís been ignored for months except once I was told that ďwe are a small company so everyone must chip in and do their bitĒ (by the office manager whoís in three hours a week and in that time only gets the staff meeting and task list done).
    Can my employer keep adding to my job so she can avoid paying others?


    My second issue regards holiday. I started in February as mentioned above and was always under the impression that my work year ran Feb to Feb. In fact in meetings with office manager she agreed it too.
    I had booked the weeks of 23/7 and 30/7 as holiday which had been approved months ago. The week prior I was signed off by doctor due to mental health. Boss then said I canít have holiday as I have to still claim sick pay (92 per week instead of 144). Iím still off right now and doctor is supportive.
    I looked into legality and boss canít force me to take it as sick.
    Iíve texted her to let her know my ďholiday pay wasnít in last wagesĒ as Iím trying not to accuse her of stiffing me but the response has left me livid.
    Apparently she needs to check with HR if Iím not entitled to it based on days off so far and their company year running July to July. Funny that eh? Suddenly she wants to know my holiday cap and check with HR when previously it was approved. Also the July to July looks rather suspicious. Iíve never been told that before. Funny how that means my holiday would be the last two weeks of the company year.

    Does anyone else find that suss? What can I do?
Page 1
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 7th Aug 18, 9:59 AM
    • 5,702 Posts
    • 9,946 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #2
    • 7th Aug 18, 9:59 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Aug 18, 9:59 AM
    Provided that you are being paid the minimum wage, then you are being paid what the law dictates. The law has no concern with your job description, so yes, she can add any duties she wishes. Whether you like it or not, and what you do about it is (within the law) up to you.

    Hmm, not sure what law you looked into, but you are kind of wrong. You were signed off by the doctor and I assume, from what you say, that you submitted a doctors fit note, or a self certification, saying that you were too ill to work? If you said that you were too ill to work then your employer certainly had grounds to say that you cannot be both at the same time. So she is well advised to check what she is doing. You could turn around and accuse her of breaking the law in several ways if she didn't, depending on the circumstances, so it's sensible for her to be clear on this.

    I'm struggling to work out what your are suspicious about or think funny. I can't tell you what the holiday year is, and I don't have sufficient information to say which of you is correct. But it's very easy - if you couldn't take the holiday due to sickness, then you are, by law, allowed to carry holiday over. This only works if the sickness literally prevents taking the holiday reasonably within the year - but what you describe certainly qualifies.

    What can you do? A good place to start would be to let her check with HR and get back to you.

    What isn't clear here is whether she is your manager or your employer - with HR that would suggest a larger employer, and this is a manager. The size and type of the employer can sometimes affect the advice we might give.
    Last edited by sangie595; 07-08-2018 at 10:02 AM.
    • bigisi
    • By bigisi 7th Aug 18, 9:59 AM
    • 483 Posts
    • 851 Thanks
    bigisi
    • #3
    • 7th Aug 18, 9:59 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Aug 18, 9:59 AM
    What can I do?
    Originally posted by Wildcat1990
    Leave.

    Or kick up a stink and get fired. Your choice.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 7th Aug 18, 10:07 AM
    • 5,899 Posts
    • 6,183 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #4
    • 7th Aug 18, 10:07 AM
    • #4
    • 7th Aug 18, 10:07 AM
    You seem to treat these extra jobs as on top of your day job; whereas your employer is treating it as your day job.

    No-one is forcing you into doing more hours work ( or atleast you don!!!8217;t mention they are ) she is just dictating what you do in that time.
    • Kayalana99
    • By Kayalana99 7th Aug 18, 10:16 AM
    • 3,478 Posts
    • 6,175 Thanks
    Kayalana99
    • #5
    • 7th Aug 18, 10:16 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Aug 18, 10:16 AM
    I'm not sure about the holiday side but as for the 'other jobs' as long as they are paying you for the hours that you are there, I don't see an issue.



    !!!8217;m now administrator
    Auditor - Admin job
    Filing - Admin job
    Recruitment - Searching for employees / posting job adverts - Admin / hiring staff and interviews / management
    Social media - Admin
    Policy writer - Admin
    Researcher - Admin
    Content writer - Admin
    Key worker - Not sure what this is
    Occasional diy expert, cook, cleaner or gardener - Could have reason to complain depending what type of work is undertook here.
    People don't know what they want until you show them.
    • Energize
    • By Energize 7th Aug 18, 10:18 AM
    • 452 Posts
    • 201 Thanks
    Energize
    • #6
    • 7th Aug 18, 10:18 AM
    • #6
    • 7th Aug 18, 10:18 AM
    Honestly most of what you describe is admin work that would attract minimum wage.
    • shortcrust
    • By shortcrust 7th Aug 18, 10:19 AM
    • 2,154 Posts
    • 3,324 Thanks
    shortcrust
    • #7
    • 7th Aug 18, 10:19 AM
    • #7
    • 7th Aug 18, 10:19 AM
    I'm now administrator
    Auditor
    Filing
    Recruitment
    Social media
    Policy writer
    Researcher
    Content writer
    Key worker
    Occasional diy expert, cook, cleaner or gardener
    Originally posted by Wildcat1990
    And that's bad because....?

    It sounds like the role has given you some amazing development opportunities. You can put a great CV together with the above and should be really well placed to get a better job elsewhere.
    • Wildcat1990
    • By Wildcat1990 7th Aug 18, 10:29 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Wildcat1990
    • #8
    • 7th Aug 18, 10:29 AM
    • #8
    • 7th Aug 18, 10:29 AM
    I suppose I should have been clearer. The role I had initially was to sort policies and do type ups etc. My issue is she wants all these extra jobs doing (key worker is being a support worker in charge of a person) in the same hours for the same pay and then isnít happy if all the jobs arenít completed.
    Iíd looked into ACAS regarding the holiday and sick thing. According to them if an employee has prebooked holiday you canít force them to take it as sick, the same way you canít force someone to take sick days out of their holiday allowance. You can ask, but you cannot force it.



    The part I find suspicious is that Iíve been asking about holiday entitlement since joining 18 months ago and always been told theyíll look into it. Now that Iím off for a prolonged period it feels like this is only occurring due to trying to pay less.


    I say that because thereís times Iíve booked holiday previously, had it accepted then at the last minute been told actually Iíll need to do another day to make up for it. When I was unable to work a non working day due to prior arrangements I was not paid holiday and told it was put down as a sick day so unpaid.
    • Wildcat1990
    • By Wildcat1990 7th Aug 18, 10:34 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Wildcat1990
    • #9
    • 7th Aug 18, 10:34 AM
    • #9
    • 7th Aug 18, 10:34 AM
    Sangie595: itís a small company. On the office side there is the boss, the office manager and myself.


    Thereís other reasons I donít like the company but I fear if I say them here I could get in a bit of trouble and honestly Iím terrified of that. Letís just say if I told the CQC then chances are the business would be closed.



    Another question sorry. How does statutory sick pay work? Employer claimed she had to send off for it but should it still have been in my wages? This is for week of 16th July. I got paid 27th July. Had handed in the fit note from GP.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 7th Aug 18, 10:42 AM
    • 5,899 Posts
    • 6,183 Thanks
    Comms69
    Sangie595: itís a small company. On the office side there is the boss, the office manager and myself.


    Thereís other reasons I donít like the company but I fear if I say them here I could get in a bit of trouble and honestly Iím terrified of that. Letís just say if I told the CQC then chances are the business would be closed.



    Another question sorry. How does statutory sick pay work? Employer claimed she had to send off for it but should it still have been in my wages? This is for week of 16th July. I got paid 27th July. Had handed in the fit note from GP.
    Originally posted by Wildcat1990
    Youíre not helping yourself - you are happy for patients to be at risk for the sake of 18 hrs work.
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 7th Aug 18, 10:49 AM
    • 706 Posts
    • 329 Thanks
    Samsung_Note2
    Does anyone else find that suss? What can I do?
    Originally posted by Wildcat1990
    I say, "If you're gonna play the game, boy
    You gotta learn to play it right
    You've got to know when to hold 'em
    Know when to fold 'em
    Know when to walk away
    And know when to run
    You never count your money
    When you're sittin' at the table
    There'll be time enough for countin'
    When the dealin's done
    Every administrator
    Auditor
    Filing
    Recruitment
    Social media
    Policy writer
    Researcher
    Content writer
    Key worker
    Occasional diy expert, cook, cleaner or gardener knows
    That the secret to survivin'
    Is knowin' what to throw away
    And knowin' what to keep
    'Cause every hand's a winner
    And every hand's a loser
    And the best that you can hope for is to die
    in your sleep
    Its really rather simple...I cant spell and your a Bully..Hang your head in shame.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 7th Aug 18, 10:55 AM
    • 3,689 Posts
    • 3,342 Thanks
    Undervalued


    Another question sorry. How does statutory sick pay work? Employer claimed she had to send off for it but should it still have been in my wages? This is for week of 16th July. I got paid 27th July. Had handed in the fit note from GP.
    Originally posted by Wildcat1990
    If you qualify for SSP and have either self certified (first seven days) or provided a fit (i.e. sick) note they your employer is obliged to pay it.

    At one time smaller employers could indirectly get the money back from the government but that is no longer the case.
    • Wildcat1990
    • By Wildcat1990 7th Aug 18, 11:00 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Wildcat1990
    Itís more I wonder what my word against the companyís can really do? I donít care for the role. I think thatís evident. But I donít want to be at risk of any backlash legally or otherwise if I say something.

    Who would I even go to? The CQC? And will they tell the company who made the referral?
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 7th Aug 18, 11:05 AM
    • 5,702 Posts
    • 9,946 Thanks
    sangie595
    Sangie595: it!!!8217;s a small company. On the office side there is the boss, the office manager and myself.


    There!!!8217;s other reasons I don!!!8217;t like the company but I fear if I say them here I could get in a bit of trouble and honestly I!!!8217;m terrified of that. Let!!!8217;s just say if I told the CQC then chances are the business would be closed.



    Another question sorry. How does statutory sick pay work? Employer claimed she had to send off for it but should it still have been in my wages? This is for week of 16th July. I got paid 27th July. Had handed in the fit note from GP.
    Originally posted by Wildcat1990
    I have to agree with Comms69. If you are aware of breaches of the law or correct practice in respect of the care of vulnerable people, then you have a duty to report them. That isn't a choice - it's an obligation. And if you don't you are as guilty as they are, because you know and do nothing.

    SSP is now paid by the employer, so no, they don't send off for it.

    I was surprised that ACAS would say that, so I checked - and they don't! http://m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4264

    It is, as they suggest, complicated. So technically if everyone agrees then people can come to "arrangements" - they might be stretching the law, but they aren't entirely breaking it per se. However, if the employer is not happy to do that, then they are correct, as this article states, and as I previously told you -
    "When prearranged statutory holiday coincides with sick leave, employees should let their employer know as soon as reasonably practical. Employees are allowed to take their holiday at another time. If they remain sick until the end of that holiday-leave year, they can reschedule their holiday in the following year. If an employee turns holiday leave to sick leave, they should expect to receive sick pay only, because they are unfit to do the job during that period".

    There is no law against changing a job role in the way you describe or having unrealistic expectations of the amount of work that can be completed. I'm afraid if you don't like that, then you must find another job.

    PS I meant to add, but if your have not taken all your holidays you would be required to theprove that employer refused to allow you to take them. It's hard to explain how you work for someone for 18 months and don't notice that you haven't been allowed to take holiday. The problem is that you are entitled to holiday, but you are not required to take it. So what evidence do you have that you were prevented from taking holiday in the year?
    Last edited by sangie595; 07-08-2018 at 11:10 AM.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 7th Aug 18, 11:05 AM
    • 5,899 Posts
    • 6,183 Thanks
    Comms69
    Itís more I wonder what my word against the companyís can really do? I donít care for the role. I think thatís evident. But I donít want to be at risk of any backlash legally or otherwise if I say something.

    Who would I even go to? The CQC? And will they tell the company who made the referral?
    Originally posted by Wildcat1990
    Does that matter, if you don't care for the job?


    There's no legal ramifications for you in reporting unsafe practices (in fact there could be for NOT reporting it, but you're probably too far down the chain)
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 7th Aug 18, 11:11 AM
    • 3,689 Posts
    • 3,342 Thanks
    Undervalued
    Good morning all. Sorry but I have a few questions about my place of employment and hope one of you could give me an answer. I work part time three days a week. 18 hours total.

    Firstly I was hired in February 2017 as an administrator for minimum wage. This became administration, recruitment and social media when my coworker left and my employer didnít want to hire someone else. I was given the tasks but told there was no money to increase pay. I left for all of a week before employer raised my wage to £8 p/h in August. Currently things have changed again.
    Iím now administrator
    Auditor
    Filing
    Recruitment
    Social media
    Policy writer
    Researcher
    Content writer
    Key worker
    Occasional diy expert, cook, cleaner or gardener


    None of this is ever agreed. Itís just assumed I will do it. Iíve said before this isnít on and if they want me doing other roles too then I want the pay to match. For the most part itís been ignored for months except once I was told that ďwe are a small company so everyone must chip in and do their bitĒ (by the office manager whoís in three hours a week and in that time only gets the staff meeting and task list done).
    Can my employer keep adding to my job so she can avoid paying others?


    My second issue regards holiday. I started in February as mentioned above and was always under the impression that my work year ran Feb to Feb. In fact in meetings with office manager she agreed it too.
    I had booked the weeks of 23/7 and 30/7 as holiday which had been approved months ago. The week prior I was signed off by doctor due to mental health. Boss then said I canít have holiday as I have to still claim sick pay (92 per week instead of 144). Iím still off right now and doctor is supportive.
    I looked into legality and boss canít force me to take it as sick.
    Originally posted by Wildcat1990
    One further point.....

    By simply giving the legally required (minimal) amount of notice an employer can cancel your holiday. Your right is to be able to take your holiday at some point during the year but, taken literally, the employer can totally dictate when.

    If you have pre-booked holiday according to the employer's rules and they then later cancel it, you may have a claim against them for any unavoidable losses you incur. However even that is not totally clear cut.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 7th Aug 18, 11:12 AM
    • 3,689 Posts
    • 3,342 Thanks
    Undervalued
    Does that matter, if you don't care for the job?


    There's no legal ramifications for you in reporting unsafe practices (in fact there could be for NOT reporting it, but you're probably too far down the chain)
    Originally posted by Comms69
    Indeed but sadly, in the real world, that can sometime be "grape vine" ramifications when looking for another job.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 7th Aug 18, 11:17 AM
    • 5,899 Posts
    • 6,183 Thanks
    Comms69
    Indeed but sadly, in the real world, that can sometime be "grape vine" ramifications when looking for another job.
    Originally posted by Undervalued
    Sure, ofcourse.


    But i'm sure many legitimate employers would look positively on someone who put others before themselves.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 7th Aug 18, 11:25 AM
    • 3,689 Posts
    • 3,342 Thanks
    Undervalued


    But i'm sure many legitimate employers would look positively on someone who put others before themselves.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    If you let me know the name of your optician I will order a similar pair of rose tinted spectacles.

    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 7th Aug 18, 11:27 AM
    • 3,521 Posts
    • 5,208 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    Wildcat - you seem to think that you have been given all this extra work on top of what had been your original job description. You haven't - it's just that your job description has been widened.

    Unless you have more than one pair of hands you can only do one job at a time. You just need to prioritise your daily tasks, and concentrate on the most important ones. If your boss asks you why you haven't done X, then say that that you haven't done X because you had been busy dealing with the more urgent Y.

    If he/she has a problem with that, then it's time to move on. As someone has already pointed out, all this experience is giving you a cracking CV.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 07-08-2018 at 11:30 AM.
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