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  • FIRST POST
    • moflint
    • By moflint 6th Aug 18, 4:43 PM
    • 15Posts
    • 1Thanks
    moflint
    Won't allow download of purchased video to a computer
    • #1
    • 6th Aug 18, 4:43 PM
    Won't allow download of purchased video to a computer 6th Aug 18 at 4:43 PM
    I have over 30 titles in my PURCHASED video library with TalkTalk TV. TalkTalk have sold to Rakuten TV and I have just asked their Customer Services if I can download my films that I've purchased.

    The answer is Yes, as long as it is to a mobile phone or tablet. Well I don't watch films on my mobile phone, and have no idea how to get them off my phone onto my computer where I can watch them properly.

    If I OWN the film then surely I can download it to whatever device I choose. Any tips on dealing with this company?
Page 1
    • timbstoke
    • By timbstoke 6th Aug 18, 4:50 PM
    • 954 Posts
    • 1,227 Thanks
    timbstoke
    • #2
    • 6th Aug 18, 4:50 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Aug 18, 4:50 PM
    You don't own the film. You licensed the content and can do with it what the original license agreement allows you to.
    • moflint
    • By moflint 6th Aug 18, 5:01 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    moflint
    • #3
    • 6th Aug 18, 5:01 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Aug 18, 5:01 PM
    It allows downloading of the content because they say I can download to IOS or Android. However I remember hearing years ago - back when this was BlinkBox - that they allowed users by request to download to computers by giving them URLs from which to download from. Therefore it's unlikely that they would allow this if in fact it was breach of contract. Most of my purchased are from the BlinkBox era, before it because TalkTalk TV.

    I can no longer log into TalkTalk because it forwards to Rakuten TV - so I don't know how to find this original licensing agreement.
    • MB69
    • By MB69 6th Aug 18, 5:08 PM
    • 94 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    MB69
    • #4
    • 6th Aug 18, 5:08 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Aug 18, 5:08 PM
    Is Rakuten owned by Play.com or vice versa!

    Terrible company, terrible service!

    if you download to ios, can you not then just take it off it? Do you have to use a special app to watch the films?
    • MB69
    • By MB69 6th Aug 18, 5:12 PM
    • 94 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    MB69
    • #5
    • 6th Aug 18, 5:12 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Aug 18, 5:12 PM
    Looking at the following page:

    https://help.rakuten.tv/hc/en-gb/articles/360000243965-Download-and-watch-offline

    it days it stores it on the device and you need a lot of storage/.

    If you can download to device, then there has to be a way to take it off the device and convert to standard MP4 format to watch on other devices.
    • lammy82
    • By lammy82 6th Aug 18, 5:20 PM
    • 371 Posts
    • 353 Thanks
    lammy82
    • #6
    • 6th Aug 18, 5:20 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Aug 18, 5:20 PM
    Any download to ios or Android would be for offline viewing of an encrypted file within a designated app, I'd assume, not a static unencrypted file that you could download, copy, share, re-upload etc.

    If you want to watch them on your computer, you just need to sign in and stream them, I guess.

    This highlights the danger of purchasing licences to access online content. When the content provider closes down you lose access. If someone else buys the content provider, you may not have the same terms.

    Do you have a specific reason for wanting to download the films rather than just be able to watch them?
    • lammy82
    • By lammy82 6th Aug 18, 5:23 PM
    • 371 Posts
    • 353 Thanks
    lammy82
    • #7
    • 6th Aug 18, 5:23 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Aug 18, 5:23 PM
    Looking at the following page:

    https://help.rakuten.tv/hc/en-gb/articles/360000243965-Download-and-watch-offline

    it days it stores it on the device and you need a lot of storage/.

    If you can download to device, then there has to be a way to take it off the device and convert to standard MP4 format to watch on other devices.
    Originally posted by MB69
    The downloaded file will be encrypted so it can only be viewed with the Rakuten app. Attempting to break this encryption is doubtless a breach of the terms of service.

    One could just as well advise downloading the films through other 'unlicenced' means, but such advice would go against the terms of use of these boards.
    • moflint
    • By moflint 6th Aug 18, 5:42 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    moflint
    • #8
    • 6th Aug 18, 5:42 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Aug 18, 5:42 PM
    If you want to watch them on your computer, you just need to sign in and stream them, I guess.

    This highlights the danger of purchasing licences to access online content. When the content provider closes down you lose access. If someone else buys the content provider, you may not have the same terms.

    Do you have a specific reason for wanting to download the films rather than just be able to watch them?
    Originally posted by lammy82
    Yes - I want to download them so I can play them when I want, without an internet connection. When you BUY something that's what you're expecting - or what most people would expect. The button I clicked for purchasing was a BUY button, not a LICENCE CONTENT button. You are right, this does highlight the dangers... everyone should beware if "BUYING" movies from this services.
    • moflint
    • By moflint 6th Aug 18, 5:45 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    moflint
    • #9
    • 6th Aug 18, 5:45 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Aug 18, 5:45 PM
    If you can download to device, then there has to be a way to take it off the device and convert to standard MP4 format to watch on other devices.
    Originally posted by MB69
    I doubt it - it's probably encrypted files as others have pointed out.
    • moflint
    • By moflint 6th Aug 18, 5:47 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    moflint
    If someone else buys the content provider, you may not have the same terms.
    Originally posted by lammy82
    This would be a good issue to address. My feeling is they have to honour the original agreement. I wonder if anyone else can confirm this?
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 6th Aug 18, 6:45 PM
    • 10,832 Posts
    • 4,633 Thanks
    JJ Egan
    No that would not be true .
    All depends upon what they actually buy .
    May just be the trading name .
    You need to go into the original TT contract and check as T&C probably say you don't own the video .


    Looking at a similar supplier for films .
    You purchase a digital copy and don't own the copy nor the rights to a hard copy . Neither can you transfer the copy outside of the designated system players .
    At a guess TT would have the same T&C .
    Last edited by JJ Egan; 06-08-2018 at 6:52 PM.
    • macman
    • By macman 6th Aug 18, 10:21 PM
    • 42,277 Posts
    • 17,677 Thanks
    macman
    It's no different to pre-digital delivery. 'Buying' the original film on VHS doesn't mean that you are later entitled to a free DVD version, and then a download.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • moflint
    • By moflint 6th Aug 18, 11:22 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    moflint
    It's no different to pre-digital delivery. 'Buying' the original film on VHS doesn't mean that you are later entitled to a free DVD version, and then a download.
    Originally posted by macman
    Sit 10 people down in a room and ask them what they think it means to BUY something. Many of us grew up buying tapes, then DVDs. We knew we didn't own it in the sense that we could copy it and sell it or even give away copies. It was understood. But we own a license of the CONTENT - not the medium by which it is transferred or stored. If it is otherwise then I say there is something deceptive about their use of the word BUY or PURCHASE.
    • takman
    • By takman 7th Aug 18, 10:05 AM
    • 3,598 Posts
    • 3,219 Thanks
    takman
    Sit 10 people down in a room and ask them what they think it means to BUY something. Many of us grew up buying tapes, then DVDs. We knew we didn't own it in the sense that we could copy it and sell it or even give away copies. It was understood. But we own a license of the CONTENT - not the medium by which it is transferred or stored. If it is otherwise then I say there is something deceptive about their use of the word BUY or PURCHASE.
    Originally posted by moflint
    When you bought a DVD or VHS then you knew you were allowed to watch it by playing that specific DVD or VHS.

    When you bought the films using the online service you knew you were allowed to watch them by streaming them or downloading them to mobile devices.

    So why do you suddenly think you should be allowed to now download them to your PC?. That would be something extra that you haven't paid for.
    • munchpot
    • By munchpot 7th Aug 18, 10:13 AM
    • 143 Posts
    • 233 Thanks
    munchpot
    Negotiating rights with studios is a bloody nightmare and you'll probably find that the rights Talk Talk originally had were for Streaming or On Demand.

    This would normally allow you to download to a device for a specific amount of time (like the iPlayer's 30 days etc)

    You have 'bought' a licence to view the films via Talk Talk (and subsequently Rakuten TV.. I f the rights terms negotiated were that it's played via their app then that's all you'll be allowed to do

    Believe me there are some studios that take rights restrictions to device levels - eg you can watch content on an X-Box but not a playstation as Sony could be a competing distributor!
    • moflint
    • By moflint 7th Aug 18, 12:27 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    moflint
    When you bought the films using the online service you knew you were allowed to watch them by streaming them or downloading them to mobile devices.
    Originally posted by takman
    No, I didn't. As I have previously said in this thread, Blinkbox used to allow downloads to computers and most of my purchases were with Blinkbox.
    • moflint
    • By moflint 7th Aug 18, 12:29 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    moflint
    Negotiating rights with studios is a bloody nightmare and you'll probably find that the rights Talk Talk originally had were for Streaming or On Demand.

    This would normally allow you to download to a device for a specific amount of time (like the iPlayer's 30 days etc)

    You have 'bought' a licence to view the films via Talk Talk (and subsequently Rakuten TV.. I f the rights terms negotiated were that it's played via their app then that's all you'll be allowed to do

    Believe me there are some studios that take rights restrictions to device levels - eg you can watch content on an X-Box but not a playstation as Sony could be a competing distributor!
    Originally posted by munchpot
    So why do we use these services? Are they so convenient we can't call at the shop and pick up a DVD for the same price? I won't be "buying" from these services in future, I'd rather have a physical copy.
    • takman
    • By takman 7th Aug 18, 1:04 PM
    • 3,598 Posts
    • 3,219 Thanks
    takman
    No, I didn't. As I have previously said in this thread, Blinkbox used to allow downloads to computers and most of my purchases were with Blinkbox.
    Originally posted by moflint
    Then that begs the question why do you not already have them all on your PC already if you were able to download them?.

    If Blinkbox allowed you to download to your PC then as soon as you heard it was being closed/transferred to another provider the sensible thing would have been to download all your films just in case.

    Also are you sitting in front of your PC watching these films? If it's not connected to your tv you can a stick that plugs into your TV for 30 or less to stream them to.
    • askmeaboutsofas
    • By askmeaboutsofas 7th Aug 18, 1:20 PM
    • 75 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    askmeaboutsofas
    So why do we use these services? Are they so convenient we can't call at the shop and pick up a DVD for the same price? I won't be "buying" from these services in future, I'd rather have a physical copy.

    This is the exact reason why I have a collection of DVDs and blurays, because I want physical copies I can watch without having to be online.
    That said, with a bit of technical knowledge it is possible to run an android environment on your PC or laptop, using the "kit" that developers use to test their software. Then you could add the rakuten app to your pc and use that to download and view the movies. I can't recommend a specific program as I've not done this myself, but there is an official version from android studios.
    • moflint
    • By moflint 7th Aug 18, 11:00 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    moflint
    This is the exact reason why I have a collection of DVDs and blurays, because I want physical copies I can watch without having to be online.
    That said, with a bit of technical knowledge it is possible to run an android environment on your PC or laptop, using the "kit" that developers use to test their software. Then you could add the rakuten app to your pc and use that to download and view the movies. I can't recommend a specific program as I've not done this myself, but there is an official version from android studios.
    Originally posted by askmeaboutsofas
    Thanks - that's a good idea regarding the dev environment. I'll give it a look. Cheers.
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