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  • FIRST POST
    • Pluto8
    • By Pluto8 6th Aug 18, 12:15 AM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Pluto8
    Grievance?
    • #1
    • 6th Aug 18, 12:15 AM
    Grievance? 6th Aug 18 at 12:15 AM
    Hi...first time posting here looking for some advice on a lengthy scenario but I’ll try keep it simple

    I work in the public sector and have done for a number of years.

    For the past 3 years I had a manager who would undermine me in front of colleagues, he actively stopped me going for promotion and put obstacles in my way for moving sideways. He actively stopped any development opportunities I created and wouldn’t allow me any career development.

    I found out recently that he reported me to the senior management in relation to him believing I had dishonestly obtained financial payments for overtime (there was an investigation at the time which showed I had done nothing wrong). He went to great lengths to try prove wrong doing including asking out IT department to provide a full background of what I did on my computer over a period of 6 weeks and also sending an email to head of HR telling them my integrity should be called into question because of this incident. I had no idea about this investigation until recently and wasn’t aware at the time which I think is fundamentally unfair.

    He also treated me differently from others by continually checking and double checking any claim for overtime I submitted. Basically he didn’t trust me despite me giving him no grounds to distrust me. I have some of this documented in emails.

    About a year ago the same manager began another investigation into me but in front of others he made comments about me personally and also comments to try and make me admit to wrong doing. He took me into a room with 3 managers and told me they were going to do x,y,z to prove wrong doing.


    I was off work for nearly a year through the stress of it all and one of the lower managers was my point of contact. I spoke to him on a weekly basis and he told me he wasn’t anything to do with the investigation and I could freely talk to him which I did. But I found out he passed on all the information to our HR dept.

    The manager who started all of this has since left the company a few months ago but i can see now that he was a bully. Maybe I wasn’t strong enough to say anything at the time and he was quite intimidating.

    My query is:

    Can I take a grievance out against him even though he has left the company? Or can I take a grievance out against the company as he worked for them at the time?

    Having been off for so long I was able to look back and see his actions have stopped my career dead in its path for whatever reason - I worked my butt off and never gave him any grounds not to trust me. I don’t want to leave the company because I enjoyed the work I did and I think I have an awful lot to give still. I’m just wondering what I can do, if anything? Or is it pointless and worth just forgetting?

    Any advice is appreciated

    Thanks,

    Pluto
Page 1
    • Diamandis
    • By Diamandis 6th Aug 18, 12:46 AM
    • 266 Posts
    • 431 Thanks
    Diamandis
    • #2
    • 6th Aug 18, 12:46 AM
    • #2
    • 6th Aug 18, 12:46 AM
    The biggest question is what you want to happen as a result of submitting a grievance?
    • Pluto8
    • By Pluto8 6th Aug 18, 12:54 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Pluto8
    • #3
    • 6th Aug 18, 12:54 AM
    • #3
    • 6th Aug 18, 12:54 AM
    I have thought an awful lot about what I want to achieve. I want the company to firstly acknowledge that this manager was in the wrong for the way he carried out his job and for them to apologise for that.

    I want to progress in the company and move forward and I want that opportunity.

    I’ve been with the company for 14 years. With being off I have lost out on the regular overtime I would have received. With that being said I don’t think for one minute the company will financially compensate me for any loss of earnings as being off sick was my choice (although I wasn’t fit to be in work).
    • Les79
    • By Les79 6th Aug 18, 1:03 AM
    • 368 Posts
    • 429 Thanks
    Les79
    • #4
    • 6th Aug 18, 1:03 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Aug 18, 1:03 AM
    Can I take a grievance out against him even though he has left the company?
    Originally posted by Pluto8
    Well, I think that ship has sailed given that he has left. You should have submitted a grievance whilst you were being bullied, so that senior management could consider your version of events. Maybe also address a lot of the issues you've retrospectively brought up.

    Or can I take a grievance out against the company as he worked for them at the time?
    Well, maybe... BUT I sort of get the impression that the company followed their procedures here?

    Allegation by a manager --> investigation --> Outcome (you haven't gone into much depth about that, but seems like you "got away with it" so to speak?)

    Do you have a beef with the outcome of their investigation? If so then yes, get a grievance in if you disagree! If you don't have a beef, what are you talking about?

    The whole grievance may be based on lies etc, but if the company have come to a fair assessment of the situation then how can you have a beef at the company?

    Having been off for so long I was able to look back and see his actions have stopped my career dead in its path for whatever reason - I worked my butt off and never gave him any grounds not to trust me.
    Well, some people are just like that... They don't give a monkeys about your progression or anything of the sort. You just have to suck it up.

    And you equally have to look after your own career prospects.

    I don!!!8217;t want to leave the company because I enjoyed the work I did and I think I have an awful lot to give still. I!!!8217;m just wondering what I can do, if anything? Or is it pointless and worth just forgetting?
    No idea, what's your desired outcome like?

    If I were in your shoes, I'd be thinking "YES! I can work with a better manager now and I have learnt one or two things from the previous manager which may put me in better stead with the new one".

    Leaving the company wouldn't be a bad option either BTW, if you feel the position is becoming untenable.

    Any advice is appreciated

    Thanks,

    Pluto[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Les79; 06-08-2018 at 1:06 AM.
    • Pluto8
    • By Pluto8 6th Aug 18, 1:17 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Pluto8
    • #5
    • 6th Aug 18, 1:17 AM
    • #5
    • 6th Aug 18, 1:17 AM
    Hi les, thanks for replying.

    I might not have made part of this clear. I agree on principle with the processes the company followed - simplified yes; allegation - investigation - outcome. The outcome was there was no wrong evidence of any wrongdoing and that was the end of the matter. I was wondering if the company could still be held accountable for his actions even though he has left the company?

    My big issue is, without sounding arrogant, I should have/could have been promoted prior to now but this one person has stood in my way. He stopped any development I arranged while I was looking out for my own career and I have seen colleagues pass by while I have been ‘overlooked’

    Overall I just want the opportunities that everyone else has had. I dare say now that he is away, like you said, I will have learned a lot as it might just need time
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 6th Aug 18, 7:50 AM
    • 5,255 Posts
    • 5,814 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #6
    • 6th Aug 18, 7:50 AM
    • #6
    • 6th Aug 18, 7:50 AM
    I can understand your desire to carry on fighting but I very much doubt it would do you any good. As you want to carry on working where you are it's probably best to draw a line under things and try to move forward.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 6th Aug 18, 8:07 AM
    • 15,900 Posts
    • 21,828 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    • #7
    • 6th Aug 18, 8:07 AM
    • #7
    • 6th Aug 18, 8:07 AM
    There are a-holes like this in many jobs.

    Your options at the time were fight or flight, and you chose the latter and went on long term sick rather raising a grievance.

    He has now left, so move on with your life, go back to your job, or find a different one.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 6th Aug 18, 8:35 AM
    • 5,857 Posts
    • 6,781 Thanks
    Takeaway_Addict
    • #8
    • 6th Aug 18, 8:35 AM
    • #8
    • 6th Aug 18, 8:35 AM
    Hi les, thanks for replying.

    I might not have made part of this clear. I agree on principle with the processes the company followed - simplified yes; allegation - investigation - outcome. The outcome was there was no wrong evidence of any wrongdoing and that was the end of the matter. I was wondering if the company could still be held accountable for his actions even though he has left the company?

    My big issue is, without sounding arrogant, I should have/could have been promoted prior to now but this one person has stood in my way. He stopped any development I arranged while I was looking out for my own career and I have seen colleagues pass by while I have been ‘overlooked’

    Overall I just want the opportunities that everyone else has had. I dare say now that he is away, like you said, I will have learned a lot as it might just need time
    Originally posted by Pluto8
    You should have raised a grievance immediately and I would really suggest not antagonising the company, alot would have dismissed you already for being off ill so long yet they didn't and supported you weekly (you are naive to think the manager isn't going to keep HR up to date), they also found in your favour on a grievance.


    Move on
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 6th Aug 18, 9:44 AM
    • 5,086 Posts
    • 8,690 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #9
    • 6th Aug 18, 9:44 AM
    • #9
    • 6th Aug 18, 9:44 AM
    You need to be clear on three things.

    The first of those is that your ship has sailed on a grievance- if you believed that there was something wrong in what happened, the time to complain about it was at that time. Even if the manager hadn't now moved on (and there is no evidence that he was managed out), over a year had passed since these events.

    Based on your version of events, I struggle to see anything at all wrong in what happened. There were investigations into your conduct, which is a legitimate activity, and which, according to you, rightfully determined that there was insufficient cause to take matters further. So the system worked. And he did not talk about you in front of others - he took you into a private room with other managers and explained the allegations against you. That is nowhere near bullying. A bully doesn't do it in front of three other managers!

    The third thing is that it is irrelevant whether you are being arrogant in your claim about your skills or not - you have no right to a promotion, no right to move sideways, and actually especially no right to arrange your own "development opportunities". That last action, in itself, could be easily be the root of the entire problem - depending on what you did, that would very definitely have been designed to get up a managers nose at best, and possibly worse.

    You say that you work in the public sector, so I'm going to point out a few further issues. The first of those is that progression in the public sector, as we were only discussing on here yesterday, has been dreadful for several years now. Between the cuts which have reduced staff numbers and increased workloads; and the fact that the public sector now has an imbalance with a rapidly aging workforce due to people not being able to progress or retire, there are simply far fewer jobs to move up to.

    Secondly, whether it is a coincidence or not, you have had "almost a year off sick", when it is also almost certain that your paid sick leave is one year. Coincidence that you only went back to work when the sick pay was running out? The employer won't think so! So it won't be written down anywhere quite like I'm going to tell you, but you already have a black mark against your name for that. And they'll be watching you. You have actually, inadvertently perhaps, given additional cause for management concern.

    Thirdly, a year off sick, in the best of circumstances, is not anything like a recommendation for promotion. The chances of your being promoted now are slim, until you have proven that you won't be off for months on end again. Again, they won't tell you that....

    And lastly, you seem to have a naive view of what managers do. If your are off sick, if you are talking to a manager, then of course they are discussing that with HR! That is their job. He may not have had anything to do with the investigation, but he had a job to do; and given the circumstances part of that job would have been to protect the employers interests with regard to someone off on long term sick leave, and under investigation, where there may be a number of legal issues. That doesn't mean he lied to you at all.

    To be honest, I'd have to say that to recover from this position now, you probably have two options. The best one is to find a job with another employer, and get a new slate. If you can't do that, become invisible. No time off sick, no grievances, do your job and do it well. That last part is particularly important. That is the way that you progress - you don't do things that aren't your job, you do things that are your job and convince managers that in doing that you can be trusted and given development opportunities or promotion.
    Last edited by sangie595; 06-08-2018 at 9:46 AM.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 6th Aug 18, 10:29 PM
    • 1,485 Posts
    • 1,128 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    OP - you said you worked in the public sector but then refer to the "company". Are you employed by the public sector ?
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 6th Aug 18, 10:38 PM
    • 1,498 Posts
    • 1,467 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    IMO the guy has gone, so get on with it. You was too intimidated to do anything when the moment was there and thats fair enough, many people get intimidated by others. But you can now work in peace.



    Setting up your own development opportunities sounds very shady and i bet it !!!!ed a few people off. Use the proper channels.
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