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    • Far and few
    • By Far and few 4th Aug 18, 8:42 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Far and few
    Buying the house we rent with no deeds and not registered
    • #1
    • 4th Aug 18, 8:42 PM
    Buying the house we rent with no deeds and not registered 4th Aug 18 at 8:42 PM
    Well here we are in quite a pickle. Our landlord has agreed to sell us the house we are renting and living in. We were ready to buy 4 months ago but landlord can't find deeds and house, it now appears, is not registered. It has taken this long for his solicitor to get no where with banks who held the deeds, claiming to have passed to third party who say not, etc etc. Meanwhile we continue to pay (reduced) rent. Seller bought it in the 80's/90's with a mortgage and lived in it. He is likely to start the process of applying for title from Land Registry. He lives abroad. What is our position? Should we continue to pay rent? Can we get a reduction on the cost of the house and any idea what percent it would be reasonable to ask? We understand the 12 year rule on Possessory title - Full Title. Many thanks in advance.
Page 1
    • jonnygee2
    • By jonnygee2 4th Aug 18, 9:36 PM
    • 158 Posts
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    jonnygee2
    • #2
    • 4th Aug 18, 9:36 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Aug 18, 9:36 PM
    Should we continue to pay rent?
    Well you don't own it yet, so if you want to keep living there I'd imagine you'll need to pay rent!
    • elsien
    • By elsien 4th Aug 18, 9:43 PM
    • 16,897 Posts
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    elsien
    • #3
    • 4th Aug 18, 9:43 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Aug 18, 9:43 PM
    Why would you expect a reduction in the price? It's not unusual for house sales to take a lot longer than planned for a variety of reasons.
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    • HampshireH
    • By HampshireH 4th Aug 18, 9:45 PM
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    HampshireH
    • #4
    • 4th Aug 18, 9:45 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Aug 18, 9:45 PM
    You remain tenants and therefore liable for tour contractual rent.

    Potential buyers doesn't mean anything. Until the keys are in your hands and the sale/purchase is complete you remain owing full rent.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 4th Aug 18, 10:43 PM
    • 25,832 Posts
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    Davesnave
    • #5
    • 4th Aug 18, 10:43 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Aug 18, 10:43 PM
    Why would you expect a reduction in the price? It's not unusual for house sales to take a lot longer than planned for a variety of reasons.
    Originally posted by elsien
    In this case it could take over 12 years before the OP has full title to the property, which is quite a long time!

    It's normal for houses with only a possessory title to be worth less than equivalents without this glitch over lost documentation; the question is, how much less?

    I would suggest that the quality of this title could be reasonably good if only the landlord lived there before you, but that's really for your solicitor to determine. Once that's established, he/she ought to be able to suggest an amount to reduce by. Casual reading suggests this could be around 20%-30%. Properties with other kinds of restrictions on their title face that level of reduction
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    • G_M
    • By G_M 4th Aug 18, 11:13 PM
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    G_M
    • #6
    • 4th Aug 18, 11:13 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Aug 18, 11:13 PM
    You are in a very fortunate position.


    For reasons which are unclear, the landlord has agreed to accept a reduced rent from you.


    The longer this continues, the more savings you will be able to set aside!
    • FreeBear
    • By FreeBear 4th Aug 18, 11:32 PM
    • 1,816 Posts
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    FreeBear
    • #7
    • 4th Aug 18, 11:32 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Aug 18, 11:32 PM
    If the deeds were held by Bradford & Bingley, they had a fire that destroyed some 67,000 records held in a Birmingham warehouse back in 1998. If that is the case, then B&B should have measures in place to help the LL.
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    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 4th Aug 18, 11:39 PM
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    Cakeguts
    • #8
    • 4th Aug 18, 11:39 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Aug 18, 11:39 PM
    Your solicitor will not allow you to buy the house until it is confirmed that the seller owns it. There is a scam where someone who lives abroad sells a house that doesn't belong to them and the money is transferred out of the country.



    Your solicitor will need proof that your seller owns this house and is not a tenant himself who is renting it to you.
    • Far and few
    • By Far and few 5th Aug 18, 8:37 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Far and few
    • #9
    • 5th Aug 18, 8:37 AM
    • #9
    • 5th Aug 18, 8:37 AM
    Thank you. LL rented out for many years but the property was for sale and empty for the two years before we moved in.
    • Far and few
    • By Far and few 5th Aug 18, 8:46 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Far and few
    Well kinda. We instructed our solicitor beginning of April after selling our family home (which we were letting out) ready to buy so we are losing all the rent for that every month. Also at present there is no proof he owns it yet he receives rent.
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 5th Aug 18, 8:52 AM
    • 1,016 Posts
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    Margot123
    Do you have to buy this particular house?
    There are plenty more on the market with a lot less risk.
    • Far and few
    • By Far and few 5th Aug 18, 9:04 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Far and few
    Do you have to buy this particular house?
    There are plenty more on the market with a lot less risk.
    Originally posted by Margot123
    Good point. We may decide we should do that. Though this place is pretty damn good for us, it would be a pity. Also where we live, property is in high demand and things like this don't come up often.
    • Far and few
    • By Far and few 5th Aug 18, 11:03 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Far and few
    Well you don't own it yet, so if you want to keep living there I'd imagine you'll need to pay rent!
    Originally posted by jonnygee2
    At present we don't know who does own it. The landlord has no deeds and it is not registered.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 5th Aug 18, 11:13 AM
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    AdrianC
    That's not really your problem, though. Your landlord may well be subletting, for all you know - and that's not necessarily a problem. If it is a problem for anybody, then it's his problem, not your problem.

    You have a tenancy with that landlord, and you owe rent according to that tenancy.


    If you want to buy the property, then your solicitor will ensure that you are fully aware of the title situation, and will not allow you to proceed unless and until the title issues are satisfactorily resolved. If you need a mortgage, then your lender won't release funds until they're happy with the title situation. The same will apply for any buyer.
    • BrassicWoman
    • By BrassicWoman 5th Aug 18, 11:18 AM
    • 1,703 Posts
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    BrassicWoman
    Well kinda. We instructed our solicitor beginning of April after selling our family home (which we were letting out) ready to buy so we are losing all the rent for that every month. .
    Originally posted by Far and few

    But you could be gaining interest or doing as you choose with that money. The fact that you are chooing to wait to bu a new house is up to you.
    Jan 18 grocery challenge 105.13/ 150
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 5th Aug 18, 12:41 PM
    • 26,119 Posts
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    xylophone
    Seller bought it in the 80's/90's with a mortgage and lived in it.
    Is it possible that the mortgagee still has the deeds?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 5th Aug 18, 12:44 PM
    • 44,958 Posts
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    G_M
    ......after selling our family home (which we were letting out) ready to buy so we are losing all the rent for that every month. .....
    Originally posted by Far and few
    Rubish.


    You have (presumably) a large cash sum from the sale. Whether you choose to leave it in a current account losing money till this sale proceeds or not is up to you. You could


    * invest it
    * buy a different property
    * spread it around earning from 1 - 5%
    * pay off a any debts you have
    etc
    • Far and few
    • By Far and few 5th Aug 18, 10:36 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Far and few
    Is it possible that the mortgagee still has the deeds?
    Originally posted by xylophone
    Not had any joy with that route so far. Thanks for the thought though.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 6th Aug 18, 12:42 AM
    • 4,711 Posts
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    Cakeguts
    Thank you. LL rented out for many years but the property was for sale and empty for the two years before we moved in.
    Originally posted by Far and few

    This doesn't prove that the person you rent it from owns it. It just makes it more likely that the person you are renting from doesn't actually own it and they are actually a tenant subletting to you.
    • Tiglet2
    • By Tiglet2 6th Aug 18, 7:29 AM
    • 197 Posts
    • 195 Thanks
    Tiglet2
    If he and you have both instructed solicitors then it will be their responsibility to check that everything is in order. The "owner" won't be able to sell to you unless his ownership of the property is confirmed. So, the owner needs to find "the deeds" pretty quickly or know where the deeds are lodged. Otherwise this transaction is going nowhere.
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