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  • FIRST POST
    • Palec
    • By Palec 4th Aug 18, 1:13 AM
    • 124Posts
    • 27Thanks
    Palec
    Letter of claim from bwlegal
    • #1
    • 4th Aug 18, 1:13 AM
    Letter of claim from bwlegal 4th Aug 18 at 1:13 AM
    Hello,

    I posted here my case in 2014, with replies not to pay and come back if the matter goes to court for proper defence as I appealed at a time and lost, now PPS want 160 for 8 minutes which took us to pay another 1 for extended parking...
    I was reading about new law and excessive charges plus mitigating factors, well landowner has changed since then, PPS is not operating where we got fine in 2014...
    Letter says to pay or I can be taken to court, just came from holiday, seems 30 days deadline I will not manage to reply, so if they decide to take me to court, will defend then as previously I was writing here about debt collectors who contacted me and in the past I have offered 10 for 8 minutes, because we have got proof from expired ticket and new ticket we purchased...
    Mitigating factors should be considered by court I believe, so plan is waiting until court and defend in writing...
    Any advice please? Please have a look at my post re PPS from 2014/2015, as now after 2.5 years they contacted me again.
    Thank you.
Page 2
    • waamo
    • By waamo 5th Aug 18, 8:52 AM
    • 4,442 Posts
    • 5,828 Thanks
    waamo
    A subject access request is a wonderful thing. Personally I would do one separately from the response to the LBC. There is the danger of them ignoring it and saying it wasn't clear what exactly the document is.

    DPA is data protection act.

    KADOE is Keeper at date of event.
    This space for hire.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 5th Aug 18, 8:59 AM
    • 8,816 Posts
    • 11,690 Thanks
    beamerguy
    BWLegal are simply a robo claims firm and as seen many
    times on here, they do not have a clue what they are doing

    You are doing the right thing and BWLegal must answer
    every question to comply with the law.
    Past posts here suggest that they will fob you off but that
    is where their problem starts

    Stick to your guns because only a court can decide
    and judges will not tolerate incompetence, especially
    BWLegal as you can see here ......

    BWLegal - the list of failures growing
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5672664&highlight=bwlegal+the+lis t
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Palec
    • By Palec 5th Aug 18, 9:18 AM
    • 124 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Palec
    Counter claim
    I just wondered in what instances is reasonable to put in the letter that defendant is prepared to claim counterclaim.

    I my case I have done nothing wrong, as it is not recommended to drive if driver feels unwell, so I extended parking ticket and paid an extra 1, so that the difference between 1st and 2nd ticket is 8 minutes.

    There been no cameras and it takes time from paying at the machine when contract starts to walk to the car, so grace period is usually 5-10 minutes I believe.

    As this takes some time and causes distress because I offered 10 when they wanted 60 in 2014, they returned cheque and wanted 100.

    I feel counterclaim could be for time spent on this, was reading something about 18/hr etc...
    At present I am not wiling to pay anything to be honest, just preparing if the matter goes to court and which way to apply counter claim and for how much.

    Thank you for your comments.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 5th Aug 18, 9:21 AM
    • 4,442 Posts
    • 5,828 Thanks
    waamo
    Personally I wouldn't counterclaim. Unless you are prepared to invest an awful lot of time, energy and possibly some money it isn't going to happen.
    This space for hire.
    • Palec
    • By Palec 5th Aug 18, 9:25 AM
    • 124 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Palec
    Thank you, so is there any template how it should look like please as for subject access request? It is quite stressful for me, so I want to keep it simple.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 5th Aug 18, 9:29 AM
    • 8,816 Posts
    • 11,690 Thanks
    beamerguy
    At present I am not wiling to pay anything to be honest, just preparing if the matter goes to court and which way to apply counter claim and for how much.

    Thank you for your comments.
    Originally posted by Palec
    Best way is your costs schedule if they take you to court,

    BWLegal are getting their fair share of whoopings
    nowadays and with their half baked claims, BWLegal
    are costing their clients, the PPC
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 5th Aug 18, 9:35 AM
    • 3,285 Posts
    • 2,230 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Thank you, so is there any template how it should look like please as for subject access request? It is quite stressful for me, so I want to keep it simple.
    Originally posted by Palec
    Just type SAR or Subject Access Request into Google and you will be amazed at the number of forms, advice and opportunities to spend money. Just be careful you pick a FREE one and don't pay or give credit card details
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 5th Aug 18, 9:40 AM
    • 3,285 Posts
    • 2,230 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Yes, I do struggle a bit with some English expressions to be honest, so not so easy to put everything together, but could use maybe this bit, too...
    Why do none of your signs or documents comply with the ICO Code of Practice for ANPR and Surveillance Cameras, thus breaching the KADOE rules and the BPA Code of Practice?
    Originally posted by Palec
    It is clear from you latest effort that English is not your first language as the first paragraph is difficult to read and is written by yourself - and you have repeated part of that in your second paragraph. The rest of it reads OK as it is lifted from letters posted on the forum.

    Do you have anyone who could sit with you and help you compose the first paragraph (and anything else that YOU want to write) into comprehensible English?

    You have now been given the meanings of the acronyms, although they are all explained in the NEWBIE stickies.
    • Palec
    • By Palec 5th Aug 18, 11:01 AM
    • 124 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Palec
    Unfortunately, I do not have anyone to sit with me as for English and paragraph, but can re-read and use dictionary and made it better I suppose, thank you for your comment...
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 5th Aug 18, 2:40 PM
    • 3,285 Posts
    • 2,230 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    When your client's debt collectors first started contacting me, I asked them for details of the basis upon which money was being claimed, including all photographs taken of the vehicle at the relevant time. Extraordinarily, I was told by DRP that no such evidence would be provided. plus as I tried to come to conclusion an agreement with your client without any luck your client and this is has causing caused significant distress to me and my family for over 12 months.
    In terms of timing data, Premier Parking Solutions Limited changed the ticket machine in that car park as it was not possible to pay by coins at on the first occasion, which is the a sign of a faulty or nor non-working properly machine. which also takes time on top of there are no cameras and no grace period mentioned. It takes time to come walk from the car to the ticket machine and back. Having to deal with a faulty ticket machine uses up the Grace Period. too on arrival and on return, which was the case because mass was prolonged that day because of many people in church and I was not feeling well enough to drive, so I paid another 1 (for another ticket) and the have proof it was done 8 minutes after first ticked ticket expired. not used full hour and there been space free, too.

    You have now sent a Letter of Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and, again, fails to provide the photographic evidence which I requested as long ago as 2014/ 2015. It does not even say what the No cause of action is stated. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.
    In terms of timing data, Premier Parking Solutions Limited changed machine in that car park as it was not possible to pay by coins at first occasion, which is the sign of faulty or nor working properly machine, which also takes time on top of there are no cameras and no grace period mentioned. It takes time to come from car to machine and back, too on arrival and on return, which was the case because mass was prolonged that day because of many people in church and I was not feeling well to drive, so I paid another 1 and the have proof it was done 8 minutes after first ticked expired, not used full hour and there been space free, too.
    Is that what you are trying to say? Have a read and adjust it accordingly. Hope it helps. Not sure what you are trying to say with "In terms of timing data" so I have left it in. I have removed the duplication.
    Last edited by Le_Kirk; 06-08-2018 at 9:49 AM.
    • Palec
    • By Palec 5th Aug 18, 7:00 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Palec
    Thank you. As for cameras in parking spaces, is it requirement that landowners have to install them?
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 5th Aug 18, 7:24 PM
    • 1,183 Posts
    • 2,246 Thanks
    Johnersh
    Ask yourself that last question again. Crikey.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Palec
    • By Palec 5th Aug 18, 8:15 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Palec
    Why? I was reading about ANPR or whatever abbreviation it is, automatic number plate recognition, which was not there, so it would help if it is requirement nowadays...Crikey.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 5th Aug 18, 8:29 PM
    • 8,816 Posts
    • 11,690 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Why? I was reading about ANPR or whatever abbreviation it is, automatic number plate recognition, which was not there, so it would help if it is requirement nowadays...Crikey.
    Originally posted by Palec
    There is no requirement for ANPR it's up to the PPC
    as to whether they use ANPR or a warden
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Palec
    • By Palec 5th Aug 18, 8:35 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Palec
    Hello everyone, on www.bwlegal.co.uk is not clear reply form, only expenditure and document upload is as proof, expenditure, compaint, so it seems it is better to send it also on ther contact email address and maybe complaint that they want to know income, expenses, etc, which seems not appropriate in this stage...Crikey
    • Palec
    • By Palec 5th Aug 18, 8:36 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Palec
    Thank you beamerguy, very kind.
    • Thorsson
    • By Thorsson 5th Aug 18, 9:20 PM
    • 146 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    Thorsson
    Better post that draft response again, as there was at least one typo in the Le_Kirk version ("satted"), before you send it.
    • Palec
    • By Palec 5th Aug 18, 10:03 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    Palec
    Dear Sirs,

    Thank you for your letter of (date)
    When your client's debt collectors first started contacting me, I asked them for details of the basis upon which money was being claimed, including all photographs taken of the vehicle at the relevant time. Extraordinarily, I was told by DRP that no such evidence would be provided. I tried to come to an agreement with your client without any luck as they refused 10 for 10 minutes and asked for 100 from previous 60. I could not contact landowner directly to sort it out as landowners changed at a time, too.
    All this caused significant distress to me and my family for over 12 months.

    Premier Parking Solutions Limited removed the ticket machine in that car park as it was not possible to pay by coins on the first occasion, which is sign of a faulty or non-working machine. It takes time to walk from the car to the ticket machine and back. Having to deal with such ticket machine uses up the Grace Period.I was not feeling well enough to drive, so I paid another 1 (for another ticket) and have proof it was done 10 minutes after first ticket expired.

    You have now sent a Letter of Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and, again, fails to provide the photographic evidence which I requested as long ago as 2014/ 2015. No cause of action is stated. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.




    This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, with which as solicitors you must surely be familiar (and with which your client, a serial litigator of small claims, must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.


    Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction. Your client cannot simply refuse to provide the relevant information "until this gets to court" [or whatever they said].

    I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    1. an explanation of the cause of action
    2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. what the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
    5. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
    6. a copy of any alleged contract with the driver
    7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
    8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.

    I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) !!!8211; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as [date or month/year of first request] yet your client has refused to provide it, saying that it will not do so until this matter reaches the court.


    Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

    Yours faithfully,
    XY
    • Thorsson
    • By Thorsson 6th Aug 18, 1:19 AM
    • 146 Posts
    • 71 Thanks
    Thorsson
    I'm not qualified to advise on that proposed letter, but I suggest that you need to wait until someone who is looks at it, because I can see major issues:

    1. There are still sentences that don't make sense as English;
    2. You seem to have slipped in some sort of part defence, which I don't think is required here;
    3. You have copied words verbatim that may not apply in this case; and
    4. The Daniel San letter is probably more up to date.

    I would also say that your initial post doesn't give enough facts to get advice at the next stage and you might think about editing it, so that it tells the whole story (remembering not to use the words, I, me, myself, but always referring to the driver or the keeper). If you don't feel confident in your English skills, then keep your sentences short. It generally makes things easier to understand.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 6th Aug 18, 9:50 AM
    • 3,285 Posts
    • 2,230 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Better post that draft response again, as there was at least one typo in the Le_Kirk version ("satted"), before you send it.
    Originally posted by Thorsson
    Modified my post (thanks for the heads up) but obviously cannot change OP's post. I did, in the bottom of my post suggest proof reading by OP
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