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  • FIRST POST
    • fonsde
    • By fonsde 3rd Aug 18, 1:52 PM
    • 76Posts
    • 5Thanks
    fonsde
    Leaving the UK after 7 years - State Pension
    • #1
    • 3rd Aug 18, 1:52 PM
    Leaving the UK after 7 years - State Pension 3rd Aug 18 at 1:52 PM
    I have NI contributions for 7 years, but I need to have at least 10 to get the new state pension.

    I am early 30's and going to move back to my EU country.

    My question is can I voluntarily pay the gap years? to get the minimum?

    I read that I can transfer my years to my country's system (but i would rather not as it sucks there)

    anyone got views?
Page 1
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 3rd Aug 18, 2:03 PM
    • 3,121 Posts
    • 4,467 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    • #2
    • 3rd Aug 18, 2:03 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Aug 18, 2:03 PM
    I have NI contributions for 7 years, but I need to have at least 10 to get the new state pension.

    I am early 30's and going to move back to my EU country.

    My question is can I voluntarily pay the gap years? to get the minimum?

    I read that I can transfer my years to my country's system (but i would rather not as it sucks there)

    anyone got views?
    Originally posted by fonsde

    Can't help, I'm afraid - but I have to say that it's refreshing to read that EU pensions may not be the brilliantly generous schemes (...UK State pension worst in Europe ... moan...moan) that some people on these boards think they are.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 3rd Aug 18, 2:08 PM
    • 26,120 Posts
    • 15,478 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #3
    • 3rd Aug 18, 2:08 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Aug 18, 2:08 PM
    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/retire-abroad/state-pensions-abroad/index_en.htm
    • thickasabrick
    • By thickasabrick 3rd Aug 18, 3:24 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    thickasabrick
    • #4
    • 3rd Aug 18, 3:24 PM
    Leaving the UK after 7 years - State Pension
    • #4
    • 3rd Aug 18, 3:24 PM
    Are you sure about that ?

    OECD Net pension replacement rates has the United Kingdom at 29% on this chart (2016 data), second lowest among those listed.
    data.oecd.org/pension/net-pension-replacement-rates.htm

    Do you have a figure for your current contributions ?

    Register for a "personal tax account" with HMRC.
    I think this gives a government gateway ID first then you register for additional services such as the personal tax account.

    https://www.gov.uk/log-in-register-hmrc-online-services
    Once you have that you can check your National Insurance contributions and State Pension.

    https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account
    https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/check-your-state-pension/account

    That should show any gap years.

    I have NI contributions for 7 years, but I need to have at least 10 to get the new state pension.

    I am early 30's and going to move back to my EU country.

    My question is can I voluntarily pay the gap years? to get the minimum?

    I read that I can transfer my years to my country's system (but i would rather not as it sucks there)

    anyone got views?
    Originally posted by fonsde
    • fonsde
    • By fonsde 7th Aug 18, 2:00 PM
    • 76 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    fonsde
    • #5
    • 7th Aug 18, 2:00 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Aug 18, 2:00 PM
    I have a HMRC account and I can see the "years of full contributions" etc.
    • thickasabrick
    • By thickasabrick 7th Aug 18, 3:05 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    thickasabrick
    • #6
    • 7th Aug 18, 3:05 PM
    Leaving the UK after 7 years - State Pension
    • #6
    • 7th Aug 18, 3:05 PM
    In the "personal tax account" window you should see a box with
    "State Pension"
    "View your State Pension and National Insurance contributions"

    Select the "View your State Pension forecast" link
    https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/check-your-state-pension/account

    It will display "Your State Pension summary"
    Showing projected amount if you reach maximum contributions.

    Below this is "Estimate based on your National Insurance record up to 5 April 2018"
    £XXX.XX a week

    This is the amount you should receive at your state pension retirement age if you stop contributing now.

    I have a HMRC account and I can see the "years of full contributions" etc.
    Originally posted by fonsde
    • atush
    • By atush 7th Aug 18, 3:52 PM
    • 16,997 Posts
    • 10,620 Thanks
    atush
    • #7
    • 7th Aug 18, 3:52 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Aug 18, 3:52 PM
    Except he doesn't have the minimum 10 years contributions?

    Will the op be able to pay voluntary contribs after leaving?
    • thickasabrick
    • By thickasabrick 7th Aug 18, 4:18 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    thickasabrick
    • #8
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:18 PM
    Leaving the UK after 7 years - State Pension
    • #8
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:18 PM
    Fonsde has NI contributions "before 6 April 2016"

    Which is why the figure in the personal tax account is the one to use.

    The "usually need at least 10 qualifying years" is for someone starting contributions after this date which use the new State Pension rules.

    https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/how-its-calculated

    Valuing your National Insurance contributions and credits made before 6 April 2016

    Your National Insurance record before 6 April 2016 is used to calculate your ‘starting amount’. This is part of your new State Pension.

    I can't help with the answer to voluntary contributions when you are not working and paying NI in the UK.
    Except he doesn't have the minimum 10 years contributions?

    Will the op be able to pay voluntary contribs after leaving?
    Originally posted by atush
    • woolly_wombat
    • By woolly_wombat 7th Aug 18, 4:40 PM
    • 546 Posts
    • 345 Thanks
    woolly_wombat
    • #9
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:40 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:40 PM

    I read that I can transfer my years to my country's system (but i would rather not as it sucks there)
    Originally posted by fonsde
    No, I don't think you can transfer your years to your country's system.

    Have a read of the link posted by xylophone which has a good explanation of how the EU-wide system currently works.

    Extract:
    Eligibility periods
    In some EU countries, you must have worked for a minimum period of time to be entitled to a pension.

    In such cases, the pension authority has to take into account all the periods you've worked in other EU countries, as if you'd been working in that country all along, to assess whether you're entitled to a pension ( principle of aggregation of periods).
    I'm afraid I don't know what to suggest.

    This is also a matter of real concern to people currently in the UK who have spent a few years working in other EU countries.

    One thing I can tell you - the International Pension Centre in Newcastle don't have a clue either, according to someone who 'phoned them last week.
    • FatherAbraham
    • By FatherAbraham 8th Aug 18, 8:21 AM
    • 788 Posts
    • 605 Thanks
    FatherAbraham
    You cannot transfer UK state-pension benefits to your home country. No such facility exists.

    You need a minimum of 10 years in the current UK system to get anything. However, when applying the minimum, an EEA (not the EU: the EEA includes the EU plus some others like Norway and Liechtenstein) state must consider periods of contribution other EEA states.

    Thus, if you already have more than three years of contribs another EEA state, then you are already qualified.

    If you do not have that already, then you will have a shortfall if the UK leaves the EEA. You would currently be able to buy those years via extra contributions, or by returning to the UK to work for three years in the future, or possibly if the UK returned to the EEA sometime after leaving and before you reached state pension age.

    The wrecking of the EEA treaty on mutual recognition of periods of state-pension-scheme membership is one of the consequences of Brexit which will fall very expensively on people who have worked for short to medium periods in several EEA countries. The damage is compounded because the agreement restricts an individual to only being permitted to pay voluntary contributions into one state.
    • woolly_wombat
    • By woolly_wombat 8th Aug 18, 10:56 AM
    • 546 Posts
    • 345 Thanks
    woolly_wombat
    You need a minimum of 10 years in the current UK system to get anything. However, when applying the minimum, an EEA (not the EU: the EEA includes the EU plus some others like Norway and Liechtenstein) state must consider periods of contribution other EEA states.
    Originally posted by FatherAbraham
    Thank you for highlighting that. It's not immediately obvious from the europa website, but I see that when it refers to 'EU countries' it actually means '28 Member States + Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway & Switzerland'.

    That could be a very important distinction in the unlikely event that the UK ends up staying in the EEA, which some prominent political figures of various political persuasions are now advocating.

    Thus, if you already have more than three years of contribs another EEA state, then you are already qualified.

    If you do not have that already, then you will have a shortfall if the UK leaves the EEA. You would currently be able to buy those years via extra contributions, or by returning to the UK to work for three years in the future, or possibly if the UK returned to the EEA sometime after leaving and before you reached state pension age.

    The wrecking of the EEA treaty on mutual recognition of periods of state-pension-scheme membership is one of the consequences of Brexit which will fall very expensively on people who have worked for short to medium periods in several EEA countries. The damage is compounded because the agreement restricts an individual to only being permitted to pay voluntary contributions into one state.
    Well you said it FA!

    I don't think some people on these boards have really woken up to that risk.

    My other half has the option to take his small French pension a little early with a reasonable reduction. We hope that it will continue to be paid post-Brexit, but with all the alarmist talk of a hard Brexit who knows?

    At any rate it could blow a very nasty hole in the retirement savings of quite a lot of people which is just the last thing so many of them will need.

    (The 10 year minimum rule for the UK state pension looks harsh, but it's 15 years for France and Spain).
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 8th Aug 18, 10:59 AM
    • 6,331 Posts
    • 6,865 Thanks
    p00hsticks
    You need a minimum of 10 years in the current UK system to get anything.
    Originally posted by FatherAbraham
    Except, as thickasabrick points out above, the OP has will have some years prior to the new State Penson being introduced on 6/4/16.

    This raises an interesting point for people in the OP's situation because as far as I recall only one year was required under the old rules in order to get some pension.

    My understanding is that at the point of transition everyone's situation was calculating under both old and new rules, and your 'starting amount' was taken to be the higher of the two values so that (to paraphrase) 'no one would be worse off as a result of the change'.

    With less than ten years, the OP would be entitled to nothing under the new rules, but would have a non-zero starting amount under the old rules.

    What I'm unclear of is whether this non-zero starting amount is then wiped out if they do not build up further years under the new rules ?

    I think we've established in previous threads that it appears that currently the state pension forecast system doesn't work for people with less than ten NI years, so it's difficult for the OP to look.
    • woolly_wombat
    • By woolly_wombat 8th Aug 18, 11:19 AM
    • 546 Posts
    • 345 Thanks
    woolly_wombat


    What I'm unclear of is whether this non-zero starting amount is then wiped out if they do not build up further years under the new rules ?

    I think we've established in previous threads that it appears that currently the state pension forecast system doesn't work for people with less than ten NI years, so it's difficult for the OP to look.
    Originally posted by p00hsticks
    Unfortunately it does look as if the non-zero starting amount is wiped out if they have less than 10 years NI contributions.

    The basic State pension (old style State pension):
    https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibility
    You’re eligible for the basic State Pension if you were born before:

    6 April 1951 if you’re a man
    6 April 1953 if you’re a woman
    If you were born on or after these dates you must claim the new State Pension.
    Whereas the new State pension:
    https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension
    You’ll usually need at least 10 qualifying years on your National Insurance record to get any State Pension. They do not have to be 10 qualifying years in a row.
    • charliehelyes
    • By charliehelyes 8th Aug 18, 3:46 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    charliehelyes
    you can voluntarily pay for 3 more years to close the gap.
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 8th Aug 18, 8:53 PM
    • 6,331 Posts
    • 6,865 Thanks
    p00hsticks

    Whereas the new State pension:
    https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension


    You’ll usually need at least 10 qualifying years on your National Insurance record to get any State Pension.
    Originally posted by woolly_wombat

    The use of the word 'usually' would suggest that there are circumstances where 10 years aren't needed - shame they don't elucidate on what these might b.
    • greenglide
    • By greenglide 8th Aug 18, 10:45 PM
    • 3,142 Posts
    • 2,047 Thanks
    greenglide
    The main exception is when you have contributions in a foreign scheme which can count towards the minimum of 10 years to get anything.


    The 10 year rule is an absolute cliff-edge though, similar to when the minimum was removed some years ago but in reverse.


    Two people with 9 years contributions, one reaching SPa on 5th April 2016 and the other SPa on 6th April 2016. One gets a small pension, the other get nothing at all. These are the rules.


    The whole nSP was badly thought out and badly implemented but at the end it was a money saving exercise.
    • woolly_wombat
    • By woolly_wombat 9th Aug 18, 12:27 PM
    • 546 Posts
    • 345 Thanks
    woolly_wombat
    you can voluntarily pay for 3 more years to close the gap.
    Originally posted by charliehelyes
    But will that still be possible when the OP has left the country, we have left the EU/EEA and the OP possibly no longer has a UK bank account?
    • greenglide
    • By greenglide 9th Aug 18, 3:02 PM
    • 3,142 Posts
    • 2,047 Thanks
    greenglide
    I thought that a non UK resident could pay class 2 NI if they wanted, subject to some limits?


    There have been several postings about this.
    • woolly_wombat
    • By woolly_wombat 9th Aug 18, 3:50 PM
    • 546 Posts
    • 345 Thanks
    woolly_wombat
    OK.

    Lots of information here, including application form CF83 :
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/social-security-abroad-ni38

    Some people employed abroad have to pay UK National Insurance contributions. Others may choose to pay them to help qualify for benefits when they get back to this country or for State Pension or bereavement benefits whether they come back or stay abroad. This leaflet describes the classes of National Insurance contributions, and how paying them affects your entitlement to social security benefits.
    Also, extract from page 10 of booklet N138:
    You will need a minimum of 10 qualifying years to
    receive any new State Pension from 2016.
    NICs paid before 2016
    will be recognised in the new system.
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