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  • FIRST POST
    • clairey262
    • By clairey262 2nd Aug 18, 4:09 PM
    • 29Posts
    • 1Thanks
    clairey262
    BW Legal ringing family members
    • #1
    • 2nd Aug 18, 4:09 PM
    BW Legal ringing family members 2nd Aug 18 at 4:09 PM
    So as advised from you all I have ignored all debt chasing letters from NCP & Trace Debt recovery.. I have since received my first letter from BW legal. I think it must be the LBC as they have advised since I have failed to make payment or raise an appeal within 28 days from the date of the PCN (i did straight away but it was rejected as we did it on ncp website and havnt got a copy of it) therefore I am required to make full payment within 16 days else they will commence legal proceedings against me in the county court and will be served with a Letter Of Claim pursuant to the pre-action protocol for debt claims bla bla bla but since receiving this letter my husband and parents at another address have received phone calls from the BW legal advising I need to speak to them ASAP. I have read the Newbies!!! Private!!! parking ticket new or old #2 post written from coupon-mad and found a reply to send regarding ANPR signage etc but will all the to and from emails and letters carry on for a couple of months / years and keep getting harressed by phone calls until I pay it ? When do they give up ?? Or will I actually face court in which it would be easier to just pay it now and get them off mine and my families backs?
Page 1
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 2nd Aug 18, 4:22 PM
    • 8,816 Posts
    • 11,690 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #2
    • 2nd Aug 18, 4:22 PM
    • #2
    • 2nd Aug 18, 4:22 PM
    So as advised from you all I have ignored all debt chasing letters from NCP & Trace Debt recovery.. I have since received my first letter from BW legal. I think it must be the LBC as they have advised since I have failed to make payment or raise an appeal within 28 days from the date of the PCN (i did straight away but it was rejected as we did it on ncp website and havnt got a copy of it) therefore I am required to make full payment within 16 days else they will commence legal proceedings against me in the county court and will be served with a Letter Of Claim pursuant to the pre-action protocol for debt claims bla bla bla but since receiving this letter my husband and parents at another address have received phone calls from the BW legal advising I need to speak to them ASAP. I have read the Newbies!!! Private!!! parking ticket new or old #2 post written from coupon-mad and found a reply to send regarding ANPR signage etc but will all the to and from emails and letters carry on for a couple of months / years and keep getting harressed by phone calls until I pay it ? When do they give up ?? Or will I actually face court in which it would be easier to just pay it now and get them off mine and my families backs?
    Originally posted by clairey262
    Unless they send a proper LBA giving you proof of
    their claim, followed by 30 days to reply, there is nothing
    they can do and they are behaving
    like wild dogs and that demands a complaint to the SRA
    as they are harassing your family.

    Do your family feel threatened in any way by these phone
    calls, if so make a police complaint, you will get a ref
    number.

    DO NOT PAY THESE ROBBERS, they have given you the
    perfect defence to put in front of a judge who will not take
    kindly to such bad behaviour

    Contact your MP urgently and issue a severe complaint.

    BWLegal must be very hard up at present
    Last edited by beamerguy; 02-08-2018 at 4:29 PM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 2nd Aug 18, 4:57 PM
    • 3,663 Posts
    • 5,983 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #3
    • 2nd Aug 18, 4:57 PM
    • #3
    • 2nd Aug 18, 4:57 PM
    Call National Debt Line (Freephone) or use their letter. Calling family members is harassment

    https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/sampleletters/Pages/Creditor-harassment-warning-(sole-name).aspx

    They may claim that as this is an alleged debt they are not covered by the legislation but you should harass them back with complaints to Trading Standards, the ICO for misuse of data, and your MP.

    If you let them away with it, they will continue.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • clairey262
    • By clairey262 4th Aug 18, 2:13 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    clairey262
    • #4
    • 4th Aug 18, 2:13 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Aug 18, 2:13 PM
    Trying to drafting a letter to send back to BW Legal but quick question: I!!!8217;ve copied the draft letter from here to respond to a LBC but what happens if I havnt asked spoke to anyone and asked for evidence of photos etc? NCP sent me photos of the car driving out the carpark on the ANPR camera when I first received my notice.

    !!!8220;When your client's debt collectors first started contacting me, I asked them for details of the basis upon which money was being claimed, including all photographs taken of the vehicle at the relevant time!!!8221;
    ??
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 4th Aug 18, 4:13 PM
    • 37,516 Posts
    • 21,729 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #5
    • 4th Aug 18, 4:13 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Aug 18, 4:13 PM
    This sounds a threatening debt collection letter rather than a LBC

    Ignore everything except a lbcca or Court correspondence is the advice here when dealing with debt collectors


    (Block their calls)
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 4th Aug 18, 10:55 PM
    • 8,816 Posts
    • 11,690 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #6
    • 4th Aug 18, 10:55 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Aug 18, 10:55 PM
    Trying to drafting a letter to send back to BW Legal but quick question: I!!!8217;ve copied the draft letter from here to respond to a LBC but what happens if I havnt asked spoke to anyone and asked for evidence of photos etc? NCP sent me photos of the car driving out the carpark on the ANPR camera when I first received my notice.

    !!!8220;When your client's debt collectors first started contacting me, I asked them for details of the basis upon which money was being claimed, including all photographs taken of the vehicle at the relevant time!!!8221;
    ??
    Originally posted by clairey262
    Why would you even think of sending BWLegal a letter
    after they harassed your family ???
    Have you spoken to your MP or Trading Standards about this ?

    Any LBC must by law show you proof of their claim and then give you 30 days to respond ... is that what you have ?

    Two separate issues here
    The harassment of BWLegal which must be reported
    The actual claim

    You need to understand that BWLegal are not real solicitors
    as you and I know them, a real solicitor would not come
    out with the rubbish that BWLegal does.

    BWLegal send "daily rental advocates" to court and then wonder
    why a judge whoops them and dismisses the claim

    At least BWLegal is now in the eyes of the government
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • ocean88
    • By ocean88 5th Aug 18, 8:49 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    ocean88
    • #7
    • 5th Aug 18, 8:49 AM
    • #7
    • 5th Aug 18, 8:49 AM
    Same thing happened to me BW sent letters to be people connected to me they are not even at my address! Threatening letters. It's part of the harassment process to scare you into paying.
    Don't give this robbers an inch. After 12 months they will give up.

    I was just reading about Parking Eye trying to take a person to court about overstaying in a motorway rest stop by 15mins. They didn't even bother to turn upto court so had to pay the costs of the defendant plus compensation.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 5th Aug 18, 9:05 AM
    • 8,816 Posts
    • 11,690 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #8
    • 5th Aug 18, 9:05 AM
    • #8
    • 5th Aug 18, 9:05 AM
    Don't give this robbers an inch. After 12 months they will give up.
    Originally posted by ocean88
    WRONG .... BWLegal are a vindictive firm and we see
    on here, they will try a claim, anything up to 6 years

    Do not advise others that they will go away ???? BAD ADVICE

    If you have had problems with BWLegal, they have 6 years
    to come and get you
    Last edited by beamerguy; 05-08-2018 at 9:12 AM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Aug 18, 12:37 PM
    • 10,239 Posts
    • 10,134 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #9
    • 5th Aug 18, 12:37 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Aug 18, 12:37 PM
    Make a formal complaint to the SRA that they are behaving in an unsolicitorly manner and bringing the profession into disrepute. It could severely embarrass them, and will certainly cost them money to field it..

    https://www.sra.org.uk/home/home.page

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • clairey262
    • By clairey262 9th Aug 18, 4:21 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    clairey262
    So ive been expecting this as ive ignored every single thing i've had so far but I have recieved my LBC with all the forms attached. Ive read up on everything but wanted to know do I reply to BW legal asking for evidence first from NCP or shall I just go straight in with the LBC reply about ANPR tickets and lack of compliance with the DPA in handling data and properly informing motorists about SARs? Copied from the newbies section
    My PCN is from ANPR camera seeing me drive in at 15.48 and driving out at 17.02 after purchasing a 1 hour ticket. Even with 10 mins grace I am still 4 mins over. I argued my case in my appeal but they said with the time on the ticket I am still 1 minute late. If this went to court and they found in my appeal that the words wrote; 'I' spent several minutes driving around the heavy snow trying to find a parking bay; would I lose my case for saying i ? They are also still harassing my husband so I need to send a complaint!
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Aug 18, 4:23 PM
    • 37,516 Posts
    • 21,729 Thanks
    Quentin
    Responding to a LBCCA is covered in detail in the newbies faq thread #2


    That post covers a court claim from the lbcca right through to the hearing


    (Ignore the contribution in #7 above)
    Last edited by Quentin; 09-08-2018 at 4:25 PM.
    • clairey262
    • By clairey262 9th Aug 18, 4:32 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    clairey262
    Yes I know, i've read the newbie thread. My question is do I respond with a question of evidence first or do I send the draft on the newbies thread about ANPR in handling data ?
    Last edited by clairey262; 12-08-2018 at 7:49 PM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Aug 18, 4:32 PM
    • 19,750 Posts
    • 31,215 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Please switch off your 'Smart Punctuation' on your iPhone/iPad to avoid the littering of your posts with !!!!8820; and the like, as every apostrophe and some other punctuations convert to exclamation marks and numbers.

    It will remove anything similar from any future posts you make, but unfortunately copy and pastes of other people's inputs will still carry the fault and will need to be tidied manually.

    Go to 'Settings' > 'General' > 'Keyboard' > 'Smart Punctuation' and flick the switch off.

    Switching off seems to have no detrimental affect on any other use of the keyboard.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Aug 18, 4:35 PM
    • 37,516 Posts
    • 21,729 Thanks
    Quentin
    Yes I know I!!!8217;ve read the newbie thread. My question is do I respond with a question of evidence first or do I send the draft on the newbies thread about ANPR in handling data ?
    Originally posted by clairey262
    Read #2 in the FAQ


    Rebuttal of a LBCCA involves asking for the evidence etc as well as rebutting the points raised in the LBC
    • clairey262
    • By clairey262 9th Aug 18, 5:05 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    clairey262
    Thankyou I have done this.
    • clairey262
    • By clairey262 12th Aug 18, 7:48 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    clairey262
    This is my LBC draft reply but before I send I want to send a letter of evidence but can not find it in the LBCCA section. Anyone possibly send me a link please?

    To whom it may concern,


    I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim dated 6th August 2018

    Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.

    Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

    Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents/information that the protocol now requires your client to provide.

    Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

    As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

    Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

    I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    1. an explanation of the cause of action
    2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
    5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, provide a copy of that contract bearing my signature. Or is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
    6. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1
    7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
    8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    9. Details of the additions to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.


    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

    Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

    Yours Sincerely,
    Last edited by clairey262; 12-08-2018 at 7:52 PM.
    • clairey262
    • By clairey262 12th Aug 18, 8:21 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    clairey262
    Also just read the complaints section.. all the complaint advice is for the land owners who are retail/hospitals etc would I stand a chance if the NCP carpark has recently been purchased by the local council? Or would the council refer me back to NCP?
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Aug 18, 9:05 PM
    • 8,816 Posts
    • 11,690 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Also just read the complaints section.. all the complaint advice is for the land owners who are retail/hospitals etc would I stand a chance if the NCP carpark has recently been purchased by the local council? Or would the council refer me back to NCP?
    Originally posted by clairey262
    You must stand to your ground on this.

    DroppIng the word SCAM into the conversation does help.

    Something councils dread to hear
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • clairey262
    • By clairey262 12th Aug 18, 9:38 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    clairey262
    Why would the local council think it's a scam if they rent their land out to ncp? Surely they would just say I need to bring it up with ncp ?
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Aug 18, 10:31 PM
    • 8,816 Posts
    • 11,690 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Why would the local council think it's a scam if they rent their land out to ncp? Surely they would just say I need to bring it up with ncp ?
    Originally posted by clairey262
    You miss the point ...... nobody is asking if the council
    thinks it a scam, YOU DO and as they rent to NCP then
    you refer to this as a scam
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
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