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  • FIRST POST
    • samson164
    • By samson164 2nd Aug 18, 3:55 PM
    • 7Posts
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    samson164
    NHS Band 3 - Am I being ripped off?
    • #1
    • 2nd Aug 18, 3:55 PM
    NHS Band 3 - Am I being ripped off? 2nd Aug 18 at 3:55 PM
    I feel my local dentist is accepting NHS patients just to throw them in NHS Band 3 while making sure it's for as little work as possible. Is this a thing?

    I visited this clinic for the first time in 7-8 years. I had a few complaints with my teeth, however, the dentist seems reluctant to provide an X-Ray. He visibly looked in my mouth, with no tools, for 15 seconds, then advised that I would need an veneer for one of my front teeth.

    I explained that I had issues with my other teeth as they had cracks in them and they were sensitive when I ate. He told me "I'm not going to do any work if you don't need any work done". This just seemed really odd to me. The idea of my visit was to: have X-Rays, find out everything I needed doing, forming a plan of treatment, then having it all done as soon as possible. I was not offered a scale and polish, x-ray, nothing.

    The dentist seems more concerned in having me pay 256.50 for this veneer up front, then discussing treatment options afterwards. Why is this? This has NEVER been the case before. I finally convinced him to provide me an X-Ray, but I didn't get a print-out to anything.

    Do they save money for doing fewer treatments within an NHS band?

    I just have a horrible feeling im being taken advantage of here, but I wanted to check first because there might be a reason that I am overlooking!

    Thank you
Page 1
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 3rd Aug 18, 6:02 PM
    • 4,985 Posts
    • 3,724 Thanks
    sheramber
    • #2
    • 3rd Aug 18, 6:02 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Aug 18, 6:02 PM
    Are you sure the dentist was treating you as a NHS patient.

    from the HS website

    Veneers are generally only available privately unless you can show a clinical need for them.
    • samson164
    • By samson164 3rd Aug 18, 8:44 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    samson164
    • #3
    • 3rd Aug 18, 8:44 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Aug 18, 8:44 PM
    Yes 100%... Filled out the NHS forms and everything. Everybody involved is aware that I am an NHS patient.

    "They're available on the NHS if they're needed to improve the health of your mouth !!!8211; but not just to improve the appearance of your teeth" - This reason is valid for NHS coverage for a veneer in my case. This was discussed with the dentist.

    Any advice on my OP?
    • Toothsmith
    • By Toothsmith 3rd Aug 18, 10:56 PM
    • 8,919 Posts
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    Toothsmith
    • #4
    • 3rd Aug 18, 10:56 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Aug 18, 10:56 PM
    It's a bit hard to tell from what you've described, and without seeing you.

    It certainly doesn't sound like the best of experiences, and you should always be able to trust the person you are seeing.

    I would get another opinion from someone else.
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
    • samson164
    • By samson164 4th Aug 18, 3:40 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    samson164
    • #5
    • 4th Aug 18, 3:40 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Aug 18, 3:40 PM
    I was just trying to work out if im being scammed or had.

    If a patient walked in with multiple complaints and visibly cracked teeth, would you put everything on Band X and fix it all at once under one course of treatment, or, would you fix one thing and put that on Band 3 and discuss the rest afterwards.
    • Toothsmith
    • By Toothsmith 4th Aug 18, 4:36 PM
    • 8,919 Posts
    • 10,628 Thanks
    Toothsmith
    • #6
    • 4th Aug 18, 4:36 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Aug 18, 4:36 PM
    I was just trying to work out if im being scammed or had.

    If a patient walked in with multiple complaints and visibly cracked teeth, would you put everything on Band X and fix it all at once under one course of treatment, or, would you fix one thing and put that on Band 3 and discuss the rest afterwards.
    Originally posted by samson164
    I have never worked on the ridiculous mess that is the current NHS contract. The band system is crazy, is bad for patients, and virtually unworkable for any dentist wanting to provide a decent service to patients.

    Just to say though, 'visible cracks in teeth' are not uncommon. As teeth age and with all the work they do, visible vertical 'crazing' in the enamel - which sometimes stain as well making them more visible - is usually not a weakness and usually doesn't cause any symptoms.

    If someone attended for the first time in so long though, I would usually take a pair of x-rays to check for hidden decay.
    Last edited by Toothsmith; 04-08-2018 at 4:47 PM.
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
    • samson164
    • By samson164 4th Aug 18, 4:38 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    samson164
    • #7
    • 4th Aug 18, 4:38 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Aug 18, 4:38 PM
    Ok thanks... but after not visiting a dentist for 7-8 years, isn't it common to provide an X-Ray??
    • Toothsmith
    • By Toothsmith 4th Aug 18, 4:45 PM
    • 8,919 Posts
    • 10,628 Thanks
    Toothsmith
    • #8
    • 4th Aug 18, 4:45 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Aug 18, 4:45 PM
    Was editing post to answer that bit when you replied!!!
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
    • samson164
    • By samson164 4th Aug 18, 6:59 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    samson164
    • #9
    • 4th Aug 18, 6:59 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Aug 18, 6:59 PM
    Thanks for the help! I appreciate it.
    I will get a second opinion at another dentist
    • samson164
    • By samson164 7th Aug 18, 8:08 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    samson164
    The second opinion came back as expected. X-rays provided, 5-6 teeth and a root canal.

    I think i will form a complaint for this first dentist via NHS England

    Thanks for the help
    • Toothsmith
    • By Toothsmith 7th Aug 18, 8:49 AM
    • 8,919 Posts
    • 10,628 Thanks
    Toothsmith
    Complaining to the practice is a usual first step
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
    • fibonarchie
    • By fibonarchie 7th Aug 18, 9:33 AM
    • 802 Posts
    • 1,362 Thanks
    fibonarchie
    It is, but if you're asking people to investigate themselves it's a foregone conclusion..
    When England was a Kingdom we had a King, when we were an empire we had an emperor. Now we're a country and we have Margaret Thatcher

    the late great Kenny Everett
    • Toothsmith
    • By Toothsmith 7th Aug 18, 9:48 AM
    • 8,919 Posts
    • 10,628 Thanks
    Toothsmith
    If the practice has someone working for them who is 'less than ideal' then they really would want to do something about it. I'm guessing this wasn't the practice owner that was seen, as very few dentists working in the NHS now do actually own the practice they're working in.

    NHS contracts are now mainly held by the big PLC companies like {my}dentist (formally IDH) or Oasis or similar. If it is a smaller independent practice, then it is mostly associates doing the NHS stuff whilst the boss concentrates on private.

    A complaint to NHS England is likely to take a fair old while to actually get anywhere.
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 7th Aug 18, 10:14 AM
    • 3,707 Posts
    • 3,519 Thanks
    Comms69
    If you pay for band 3; that then covers all other treatment for 3 months.

    Not saying you needed band 3 treatment but I don!!!8217;t think it!!!8217;s a rip off either
    • fibonarchie
    • By fibonarchie 7th Aug 18, 10:15 AM
    • 802 Posts
    • 1,362 Thanks
    fibonarchie
    If it is a smaller independent practice, then it is mostly associates doing the NHS stuff whilst the boss concentrates on private.
    Originally posted by Toothsmith
    Yeah mine is like that. We paupers see the part time lady who does NHS work, the rest go onto DenPlan or whatever and see the more experienced one who I think owns the practice.
    When England was a Kingdom we had a King, when we were an empire we had an emperor. Now we're a country and we have Margaret Thatcher

    the late great Kenny Everett
    • Toothsmith
    • By Toothsmith 7th Aug 18, 11:27 AM
    • 8,919 Posts
    • 10,628 Thanks
    Toothsmith
    I just don't allow paupers in my building
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 7th Aug 18, 2:05 PM
    • 4,985 Posts
    • 3,724 Thanks
    sheramber
    I complained through my local health board about my NHS dentist charging for a dental repair.

    I had taken it up with the practice manager who confirmed the charge was due.

    I was quickly refunded the charge with a pathetic excuse from the practice manager that she knew nothing about the charge despite the fact that we had a telephone conversation when she insisted the charge was correct.
    • fibonarchie
    • By fibonarchie 7th Aug 18, 6:54 PM
    • 802 Posts
    • 1,362 Thanks
    fibonarchie
    I just don't allow paupers in my building
    Originally posted by Toothsmith
    Do you have one of these?



    Can just imagine one of those outside the door of a private dental practice
    When England was a Kingdom we had a King, when we were an empire we had an emperor. Now we're a country and we have Margaret Thatcher

    the late great Kenny Everett
    • Toothsmith
    • By Toothsmith 7th Aug 18, 7:18 PM
    • 8,919 Posts
    • 10,628 Thanks
    Toothsmith
    Of course!

    (I really think you would be quite surprised at the cross section of my patients! - this seam of rich folk who seek out private dental care really is a myth. More often than not the 'rich folk' are making a PITA of themselves at NHS places ' knowing their rights' and wanting everything state subsidised!)
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
    • samson164
    • By samson164 8th Aug 18, 11:06 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    samson164
    Complaining to the practice is a usual first step
    Originally posted by Toothsmith
    I have emailed them a few times now, but I'm not getting any response. It's been well over a week.

    I contacted NHS England and they advised me that they will contact them on my behalf as a first step.

    Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.
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