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  • FIRST POST
    • pparkedoff
    • By pparkedoff 1st Aug 18, 7:24 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 0Thanks
    pparkedoff
    PPC fine from 2013 went quiet after appeal, now a debt collect letter out of the blue years later
    • #1
    • 1st Aug 18, 7:24 PM
    PPC fine from 2013 went quiet after appeal, now a debt collect letter out of the blue years later 1st Aug 18 at 7:24 PM
    Apologies if this is covered in other threads, I've spent an hour searching as best I could.

    I appealed against a fine from a PPC issued and promptly appealed in the first half of 2013. I followed the relevant MSE advice at time time. I appealed by email, and I have that email. The PPC acknowledged receipt of my appeal email (by email), noting that I would "receive a reply to your appeal within 35 days". I have that acknowledgement email. I heard nothing further, by email or post, until recently when I received a letter from a debt recovery agency claiming to act on behalf of the PPC. Their letter contains details that correctly identify the original fine. Their letter alleges that the PPC attempted to engage with me and agree a suitable payment arrangement. However, according to the communications I received, this is simply not true - the PPC just never responded to my appeal letter.

    The original email acknowledging my appeal identified the debt recovery agency that the PPC would use if necessary, but this is not the same company that has written to me recently.

    The debt recovery agency demand a reply soon, and claim they will issue a County Court Claim without further notice if they do not hear from me.
Page 1
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 1st Aug 18, 7:33 PM
    • 9,704 Posts
    • 12,762 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #2
    • 1st Aug 18, 7:33 PM
    • #2
    • 1st Aug 18, 7:33 PM

    The debt recovery agency demand a reply soon, and claim they will issue a County Court Claim without further notice if they do not hear from me.
    Originally posted by pparkedoff
    Is this DRP ?????? or one of the other retards debt
    collection idiots.

    THEY CANNOT ISSUE A COUNTY COURT CLAIM, they
    are simply powerless cretins

    Who is the idiot debt collector ??????????
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 1st Aug 18, 8:33 PM
    • 20,696 Posts
    • 32,604 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #3
    • 1st Aug 18, 8:33 PM
    • #3
    • 1st Aug 18, 8:33 PM
    The debt recovery agency demand a reply soon, and claim they will issue a County Court Claim without further notice if they do not hear from me.
    I don't for one moment believe that is what the correspondence said. Prove me wrong!

    In anything you write here, you need absolute accuracy, not skim read and guess what it says, then type - that just consumes unnecessary and abortive time on a very busy forum.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 01-08-2018 at 8:36 PM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • pparkedoff
    • By pparkedoff 5th Aug 18, 8:26 AM
    • 6 Posts
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    pparkedoff
    • #4
    • 5th Aug 18, 8:26 AM
    • #4
    • 5th Aug 18, 8:26 AM
    The agency is bwlegal. The exact wording is "We have been instructed by [PPC] to commence legal action in the form of issuing a Claim against you in the County Court in respect of the above debt. If payment or a response is not received before [date], we are instructed to issue a Claim against you in the County Court without further notice."
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 5th Aug 18, 8:30 AM
    • 38,012 Posts
    • 22,107 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #5
    • 5th Aug 18, 8:30 AM
    • #5
    • 5th Aug 18, 8:30 AM
    You disguised the date you were given to pay by??


    If this is a lbcca (how long does it give you to pay and are their forms to return enclosed?) then read up in the Newbies FAQ thread in #2 there for all advice on dealing with a lbcca and court claim
    Last edited by Quentin; 05-08-2018 at 10:05 AM.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Aug 18, 8:52 AM
    • 11,020 Posts
    • 10,986 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #6
    • 5th Aug 18, 8:52 AM
    • #6
    • 5th Aug 18, 8:52 AM
    This is not a DCA, this is a real life dirty shirt, albeit a bottom feeder with scammers as clients.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5672664&highlight=bwlegal+the+lis %20%20t

    You need to treat this seriously.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    Last edited by The Deep; 05-08-2018 at 9:03 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 5th Aug 18, 9:48 AM
    • 2,130 Posts
    • 2,848 Thanks
    Castle
    • #7
    • 5th Aug 18, 9:48 AM
    • #7
    • 5th Aug 18, 9:48 AM
    Follow the advice given in post 5 and also send the PPC a SAR.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 5th Aug 18, 11:23 AM
    • 38,051 Posts
    • 85,390 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #8
    • 5th Aug 18, 11:23 AM
    • #8
    • 5th Aug 18, 11:23 AM
    As above, it is not a fine, it is not a letter from a debt crawler.

    It is a LBC from a solicitor.

    You need to urgently read post 2 of the NEWBIES on how to deal with a court claim, and respond accordingly.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • pparkedoff
    • By pparkedoff 6th Aug 18, 8:34 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    pparkedoff
    • #9
    • 6th Aug 18, 8:34 AM
    • #9
    • 6th Aug 18, 8:34 AM
    Thanks for the advice, all.

    I've looked at Newbies #2. The tone of response letters seems to imply that there's been a train of correspondence leading up to that point. In my case, there has been no prior correspondence with the solicitor, and the only correspondence with the PPC was an appeal letter sent in 2013, acknowledged by the PPC but never actually replied to. Does that original appeal have any weight? The PPC promised a response within 35 days, but none was received - where does that leave the appeal? Should I mention this appeal in communication with the solicitor?

    The deadline for my reply is "by 7th Aug" (tomorrow) - apologies for not replying to the forum sooner, I did not know how to turn email notifications on and did not realise that people were replying (I have subscribed to the thread now!).
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 6th Aug 18, 11:43 AM
    • 4,158 Posts
    • 5,012 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Yes of course it does
    The BPA code of practice states it is deemed accpeted after 35 days. So PART o the response denying the debt will be that an appeal was sent on X date and therefore on Y date (35 days later) as no response was received it was deemed accepted. Their client cannot possibly have a cause of action against you, as compliance with the Code of Pracice is a mandatory element to recoever parking charges.

    Just send the LBC repsonse youve found, and obviously amend it with your details. This isnt that trickuy - there is no true template here. Just make it clear this is the first youve heard since the original PCN back in X, after Y days of yourappela and you hadnt heard you thought nothing more, and as such you require all the following documents...
    • pparkedoff
    • By pparkedoff 4th Nov 18, 10:52 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    pparkedoff
    Ok, so I replied as suggested by @nosferatu1001 within the response period requested by the LBA. I responded by email, and cc'd the PPC. I received automatic acknowledgement from the PPC, but nothing from BW Legal. I have now received a County Court Claim (CCC) from Northampton, repeating the claim stated in the LBA. To be clear, I had no response whatsoever from BW Legal or PPC to my reply to the LBA.

    I have acknowledged the CCC and stated that I intend to defend all of the claim.

    Whatever I do next, I don't want to risk any significant increase in costs claimed against me - or at least I want to retain the option to pay up and be done with it to prevent that increase in potential costs.

    I am wondering if I can ask for the claim to be struck out on the simple grounds that the original PCN was appealed back in 2013 and the appeal was never responded to, so should be deemed accepted. I filed the appeal by email, and have the acknowledgement email sent back by the PPC, and I received no further communication whatsoever until this year. In my reply to the LBA, I requested any evidence of a response being made to the appeal, but none was provided. Could this be grounds for getting the claim struck out? If so, can someone point me at exactly which legally relevant practice directions etc and/or industry association rules define the requirement to respond to appeals and the appeal being deemed accepted if not answered? The PPC, Premier Parking Solutions Ltd of Newton Abbot, are presently an IPC member. Also any specific wording that I need to use in my defence.

    Further, their LBA is almost certainly inadequate wrt practice direction, and I requested all the stuff required by the practice direction in my reply to the LBA. So that's another possible reason to request striking out. Should I keep it simple and stick to the "unanswered appeal" route, or include "inadequate LBA" as a fallback if the clerk discounts "unanswered appeal" as a reason to consider striking out?

    I have about 2 weeks to file my defence.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 4th Nov 18, 11:16 AM
    • 9,704 Posts
    • 12,762 Thanks
    beamerguy
    BWLegal yet again ..... terrible company.

    The point of the practice direction is for BWLegal to prove to you their claim and also the provision for you to respond.

    You did, BWLegal ignored you and proceeded to court ?

    How can you be expected to defend a case when you are not provided with the requested information

    The legal begals here will tell you the best way. BWLegal has not complied with the law

    BWLegal has a duty to the court to show they have behaved in the correct manner, they did not, so report them to the SRA
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 4th Nov 18, 1:04 PM
    • 11,374 Posts
    • 11,907 Thanks
    KeithP
    What is the Date of Issue on your Claim Form?
    .
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 4th Nov 18, 3:07 PM
    • 38,012 Posts
    • 22,107 Thanks
    Quentin
    ...... With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    This now looks unlikely!!

    OP, don't rely on this and don't miss any deadlines getting your docs into Court!
    • pparkedoff
    • By pparkedoff 4th Nov 18, 3:18 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    pparkedoff
    what is the date of issue on your claim form?
    Originally posted by keithp
    23/10/18
    ...
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 4th Nov 18, 3:25 PM
    • 2,425 Posts
    • 2,958 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    23/10/18
    ...
    Originally posted by pparkedoff
    and the offence was " first half of 2013."

    unless you live in scotland the cut off limit would be early 2019
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 4th Nov 18, 4:04 PM
    • 11,374 Posts
    • 11,907 Thanks
    KeithP
    23/10/18
    Originally posted by pparkedoff
    With a Claim Issue Date of 23rd October, and having done the AoS in a timely manner, you have until until 4pm on Monday 26th November 2018 to file your Defence.

    That's three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as described here:

    1) Print your Defence.
    2) Sign it and date it.
    3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7) Wait for your Directions Questionnaire and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Nov 18, 11:37 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,472 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The PPC, Premier Parking Solutions Ltd of Newton Abbot, are presently an IPC member. Also any specific wording that I need to use in my defence.
    Same as all the other BW Legal PPS claims, all fairly similar, We have over 15 of them here now.

    Look at defences on the threads by:

    Matilda13
    Prinndogs
    phoenixfreespirit

    and the other dozen that come up when you search this forum for PPS BW Legal
    • pparkedoff
    • By pparkedoff 18th Nov 18, 1:06 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    pparkedoff
    Here's my proposed defence. The real version is properly formatted (Times 12 1.5 etc)
    ---
    IN THE COUNTY COURT
    CLAIM No: ***
    BETWEEN:
    Premier Parking Solutions Ltd (Claimant)
    - and -
    *** (Defendant)
    DEFENCE
    1. The Claim relates to an alleged debt in damages arising from a driver’s alleged breach
    of contract when parking at *** **/**/2013. The Defendant
    was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question at the material time.
    2. At the material time, the Claimant operated strictly subject to the British Parking
    Association (‘BPA’) Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice Version 2 March
    2013 (‘CoP’), which includes the following relevant provisions:
    Section 22 Complaints, challenges and appeals, subsection Operator Procedures:
    22.4 If a driver or keeper challenges a parking charge you must review the case and
    decide whether to:
    ● uphold the parking charge and explain why it was issued and should therefore be
    paid, or
    ● reduce or cancel the charge and take no further management action other than
    informing the driver
    22.6 When you receive a challenge about the issue of a parking charge, you must stop
    work on processing the charge immediately. You must not increase the charge until
    you have replied to the challenge.
    22.7 We consider it a reasonable timescale to allow 28 days from the issue of the
    parking charge notice (in whatever format you send it) to allow the driver, keeper or
    hirer to challenge the enforcement action.
    22.8 You must acknowledge or reply to the challenge within 14 days of receiving it. If
    at first you only acknowledge the challenge, you must accept or reject the challenge in
    writing within 35 days of receiving it.
    22.12 If you reject a challenge you must:
    ● tell the driver how to make an appeal to POPLA. This includes providing a template
    ‘notice of appeal’ form, or a link to the appropriate website for lodging an appeal
    ● give the driver a reasonable amount of time to pay the charge before restarting the
    collection process. We recommend that you allow at least 35 days from the date you
    rejected the challenge.
    2.1. The Defendant submitted an appeal to the Claimant on **/**/2013 by email to
    the Claimant’s appeals correspondence email address. The Claimant
    acknowledged receipt of the appeal by email on the same day, including the
    statement:
    “ Please note that receipt of your appeal is acknowledged and is being
    processed. Appeals against a parking charge may take up to 14 days to
    progress but in any case you will receive a reply to your appeal within 35
    days.”
    For the avoidance of doubt it should be noted that the Defendant included with
    their submitted appeal confirmation of their serviceable UK postal address,
    which was the same as the address held by DVLA for the registered keeper of
    the vehicle in question.
    2.2. The Defendant did not receive any response rejecting or accepting the appeal
    from the Claimant during the 35 days following the acknowledged submission
    of appeal, either by email or by postal mail. The Claimant is therefore in
    material breach of CoP 22.4, 22.8 and 22.12. For the avoidance of doubt, the
    Defendant has as of the date of this Defence still not received any
    correspondence from the Claimant directly addressing the rejection or
    acceptance of the Defendant’s appeal, or informing the Defendant of their
    right to use the POPLA appeal process.
    2.3. Had the Defendant received a rejection of their appeal within the time allowed
    by the CoP, such a rejection must have included the information required by
    CoP 22.12, notably regarding the POPLA appeal process. Had such a rejection
    been received, the Defendant firmly believes that they would have exercised
    their right to use the POPLA appeal process. Having failed to provide a
    rejection of the Defendant’s appeal, the Claimant has been denied their right to
    use the POPLA appeal process.
    2.4. In response to the apparent Letter Before Action from the Claimant’s agent
    BW Legal dated **/**/2018, the Defendant wrote to the Claimant and their agent
    on **/**/2018, including a request for copies of any correspondence the
    Claimant claims to have sent to the Defendant in response to the Defendant’s
    appeal, and to provide evidence of the dispatch and delivery of any such
    correspondence. No reply was received prior to the Claimant issuing the Claim
    herein defended.
    3. Despite being explicitly requested by the Defendant, the Claimant has failed to
    provide prior to issuing proceedings the documents and information required by the
    applicable Practice Direction relating to Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and
    6(c)) and the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and
    5.2). As such, the Defendant may rely upon the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v
    Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v
    The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) - Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872,
    Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann
    Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on the Claimant
    and to order a stay of proceedings pursuant to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of
    the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.
    4. In summary, it is the Defendant’s position that the Claim discloses no cause of action,
    is without merit, and has no real prospect of success.
    I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.
    ---
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