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  • FIRST POST
    • so02see
    • By so02see 1st Aug 18, 2:55 PM
    • 106Posts
    • 8Thanks
    so02see
    Unauthorised Premium Texts
    • #1
    • 1st Aug 18, 2:55 PM
    Unauthorised Premium Texts 1st Aug 18 at 2:55 PM
    I've been battling with bestvipgames for a few months now. I got a text saying I had signed up to a subscription service on my mobile for 4.50 a time.
    I messaged them and after several weeks of their "investigations" they came to the conclusion I was due a refund.
    Now they are insisting I accept 4.05 because their refund agent charges 10% and don't seem to grasp the fact that their mistake, they pay the fee.

    Anyone else got any experience of this?
Page 1
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 1st Aug 18, 3:10 PM
    • 10,832 Posts
    • 4,633 Thanks
    JJ Egan
    • #2
    • 1st Aug 18, 3:10 PM
    • #2
    • 1st Aug 18, 3:10 PM
    I would write the 45 p off and be done with them .
    • Nilrem
    • By Nilrem 2nd Aug 18, 1:45 AM
    • 2,396 Posts
    • 1,575 Thanks
    Nilrem
    • #3
    • 2nd Aug 18, 1:45 AM
    • #3
    • 2nd Aug 18, 1:45 AM
    I would write the 45 p off and be done with them .
    Originally posted by JJ Egan
    If I was to be stubborn I'd insist on them refunding it, and point out the error/fraud was theirs, and that as they have accepted responsibility they are the ones to sort it out and give a full refund.

    I'd also give them a limited time to do it, prior to referring it to a more senior complaint route (either official complaint to the company, or the regulator).

    As a general rule the customer is not the one to be out of pocket when a company screws up and charges when they shouldn't.

    Would you accept a refund of less than what was taken on your card fraudulently because a transaction fee was taken by the merchant services provider?

    45p may not sound a lot, but if they do this repeatedly it adds up and becomes a nice little earner (I have zero patience with these sorts of companies).
    • SaveMeDo
    • By SaveMeDo 2nd Aug 18, 9:00 AM
    • 214 Posts
    • 192 Thanks
    SaveMeDo
    • #4
    • 2nd Aug 18, 9:00 AM
    • #4
    • 2nd Aug 18, 9:00 AM
    Hi


    Yes, I had this problem, that is why I'm searching these boards. I have a problem getting a decent signal in my flat, so I have been trying different sim cards, O2 kind of worked, so I put 10 credit on the card to see how it fared. I left the phone on the window sill as I always do for week or two, when I came back to the phone I got the same message you got, "Thanks for subscribing, we will be taking 4.50 a week from your credit!". The credit on the phone had gone down from the 9.80 ish to 1.11p.



    I "chatted" with an O2 rep, they told me it was all my fault and would not refund me, they gave me the scammers number to contact them (premium rate!)


    The attitude of the O2 rep was disgusting and I realised this is NOT a company I want to do business with, I took the sim out of the phone and cut it up with a pair of scissors.
    • so02see
    • By so02see 2nd Aug 18, 2:10 PM
    • 106 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    so02see
    • #5
    • 2nd Aug 18, 2:10 PM
    • #5
    • 2nd Aug 18, 2:10 PM
    Hi


    Yes, I had this problem, that is why I'm searching these boards. I have a problem getting a decent signal in my flat, so I have been trying different sim cards, O2 kind of worked, so I put 10 credit on the card to see how it fared. I left the phone on the window sill as I always do for week or two, when I came back to the phone I got the same message you got, "Thanks for subscribing, we will be taking 4.50 a week from your credit!". The credit on the phone had gone down from the 9.80 ish to 1.11p.



    I "chatted" with an O2 rep, they told me it was all my fault and would not refund me, they gave me the scammers number to contact them (premium rate!)


    The attitude of the O2 rep was disgusting and I realised this is NOT a company I want to do business with, I took the sim out of the phone and cut it up with a pair of scissors.
    Originally posted by SaveMeDo
    Yeah, that's not going to do you any good, the network have no responsibility for this kind of thing, any more than the Post Office have responsibility if someone sends you a bill you don't agree with. You can only make a case with the Organisation that took the money from you and O2
    Last edited by so02see; 05-08-2018 at 4:10 PM. Reason: sp
    • Ian011
    • By Ian011 2nd Aug 18, 2:20 PM
    • 2,084 Posts
    • 1,236 Thanks
    Ian011
    • #6
    • 2nd Aug 18, 2:20 PM
    • #6
    • 2nd Aug 18, 2:20 PM
    ... they gave me the scammers number to contact them (premium rate!) ...
    Originally posted by SaveMeDo
    Since 13 June 2014 it has been illegal for premium rate numbers starting 084, 087 or 09 to be offered for customer service lines. Mention this as part of your complaint to the Phone-paid Services Authority.
    • SaveMeDo
    • By SaveMeDo 2nd Aug 18, 2:23 PM
    • 214 Posts
    • 192 Thanks
    SaveMeDo
    • #7
    • 2nd Aug 18, 2:23 PM
    • #7
    • 2nd Aug 18, 2:23 PM
    Yeah, that's not going to do you any good, the network have no responsibility for this kind of thing, any more than the Post Office have responsibility if someone sends you a bill you don't agree with. You can only make a case with the Organisation that got took the money from you and O2

    Hmm?


    That may be the case, but it is incredibility annoying isn't it. I forgot to say that I also went into the O2 store, they were worse than useless. What I can't understand is how the scammers got this malware onto my phone, or where the other credit (over the 4.50) went. The phone store guy seemed to be all to familiar with my story, I suspect a lot of peeps are having money stolen.
    • SaveMeDo
    • By SaveMeDo 2nd Aug 18, 3:54 PM
    • 214 Posts
    • 192 Thanks
    SaveMeDo
    • #8
    • 2nd Aug 18, 3:54 PM
    • #8
    • 2nd Aug 18, 3:54 PM
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3580058/Thousands-hit-4-50-time-scam-Customers-facing-bills-hundreds-pounds-texts-advertising-gaming-services-pornographic-content.html


    Thousands hit by 4.50 a time scam: Customers facing bills of hundreds of pounds for texts advertising gaming services and pornographic content

    In the past two years, regulator PhonepayPlus received 7,462 complaints
    Fines totalling 1.6million were levied against rogue firms in 2014/15
    John Mann MP wants tougher fines than the current 250,000 maximum

    Hundreds of thousands of unsuspecting mobile phone customers are being sent premium-rate texts they never asked for !!!8211; and charged up to 4.50 a time.

    They have complained of being billed hundreds of pounds for the weekly or monthly texts, which advertise gaming services, !!!8216;glamour videos!!!8217; or pornographic content.

    Messages do not always make recipients aware they are paying, or how to opt out

    In the past two years, regulator PhonepayPlus received 7,462 complaints and adjudicated 38 times against firms for the unsolicited texts. Up to several hundred people were wrongly charged in each case.

    Fines totalling 1.6million were levied against the rogue firms in 2014/15 and 1.4million in 2015/16. But only two-thirds of the penalties have been paid and some of the firms are based abroad. John Mann MP, of the Commons Treasury Committee, called for tougher fines than the current 250,000 maximum.

    !!!8216;These text messages are theft and customers are being left totally exposed,!!!8217; he said. !!!8216;There will be hundreds of thousands of people affected, many of whom probably don!!!8217;t even know they have been charged !!!8230; the numbers who complain are the tip of the iceberg.!!!8217;

    Wow!


    What is MSE doing about this scandal?
    • so02see
    • By so02see 5th Aug 18, 3:53 PM
    • 106 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    so02see
    • #9
    • 5th Aug 18, 3:53 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Aug 18, 3:53 PM
    I'm 40 emails in now, demanding my full 4.50 back. They sent me a Post office code to get 4.05 back. 30 of the emails from them say

    Dear Sir or Madam,
    >
    > Thank you for your comment.
    >
    > As previously mentioned, there is a 10% administration charge for
    > all=20 refunds.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Customer Service
    > bestvipgames


    and 31 emails back to them tell them that the Operator fee is payable by them not me.
    They told me in the early days that there were a large volume of these that they were investigating, hence why it took them so long to confirm they had made the charge without authorisation.
    I too am surprised there isn't a lot more about this specific case in forums
    Last edited by so02see; 05-08-2018 at 4:11 PM. Reason: spelling
    • Ian011
    • By Ian011 5th Aug 18, 6:10 PM
    • 2,084 Posts
    • 1,236 Thanks
    Ian011
    You are entitled to a full refund. You are also entitled to a refund of the call charges if you had to call a premium rate 084, 087 or 09 number to speak to them.

    What have the Phone-paid Services Authority said in response to your complaint?
    • redux
    • By redux 5th Aug 18, 6:18 PM
    • 18,388 Posts
    • 24,441 Thanks
    redux
    Wow!


    What is MSE doing about this scandal?
    Originally posted by SaveMeDo
    Why should it be MSE's responsibility?

    There is a regulator with statutory powers, and your quotes show it is working.

    There are MSE articles and this forum with advice on the subject.
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 5th Aug 18, 8:12 PM
    • 8,833 Posts
    • 6,575 Thanks
    pmduk
    What is MSE doing about this scandal?
    Originally posted by SaveMeDo
    I think you misunderstand what MSE is. It's a consumer forum owned by a sales company masquerading as a comparison site. These days, MSE is here to drive users towards Money Supermarket.

    It's not, and never has been, any sort of consumer regulator.
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 6th Aug 18, 5:57 AM
    • 27,443 Posts
    • 11,080 Thanks
    forgotmyname

    Wow!


    What is MSE doing about this scandal?
    Originally posted by SaveMeDo


    What are YOU doing about the scandal?

    That article was from May 2016. How many complaints this year?
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • so02see
    • By so02see 6th Aug 18, 7:36 AM
    • 106 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    so02see
    Waiting on Phone Pay Regulator responce
    • SaveMeDo
    • By SaveMeDo 8th Aug 18, 8:22 AM
    • 214 Posts
    • 192 Thanks
    SaveMeDo
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6035691/Google-identifies-150-apps-hidden-malware-designed-infect-Windows-PCs-plugged-in.html


    https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/999716/Android-warning-malware-apps-Google-Play-Store-Windows-malicious-software


    https://www.zdnet.com/article/malicious-android-apps-infected-with-windows-keyloggers-pulled-from-google-play/


    All these links from the last 24 hours.


    Five minutes research finds that we have a massive problem with mobile phone security and it seems that the "industry" the media and our "politicians" know about it but are doing nothing.


    It seems that any tom !!!! or harry can request a telecom provider to take weekly payment off my phone, even on pay as you go phones, with "push" scams.


    I only lost 9, but I'm absolutely furious about that, because I know it will be the vulnerable and less able people who will fall pray to this.


    What are YOU doing about the scandal?

    I'm supporting the OP, and trying to get MSE to take up the issue.


    A sticky about these scams would be a start.
    • so02see
    • By so02see 8th Aug 18, 8:32 AM
    • 106 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    so02see
    I just want to know if anyone ever gets all their money back
    • Ian011
    • By Ian011 8th Aug 18, 8:56 AM
    • 2,084 Posts
    • 1,236 Thanks
    Ian011
    It takes regulators about four to eight years to act on scams, with stricter regulation that closes most of it down. This is mainly due to the fact that perhaps only one in ten thousand victims bothers to report it. A regulator simply won't act on something that generates one or two reports per year as they assume it is a limited problem. Only when it becomes apparent that there are thousands of victims will they act. To get to the point where there are thousands of reports being made usually means there are millions of victims. The biggest ally of the scammers is the victims who fail to report the issue to the appropriate regulator.
    • SaveMeDo
    • By SaveMeDo 8th Aug 18, 9:42 AM
    • 214 Posts
    • 192 Thanks
    SaveMeDo
    The regulator is a joke, just like the Press Complains Commission, they are put their by their industry to protect them from criticism.


    Here the thing, how many people, the elderly and disabled, are paying 4.50 a week to these scammers?


    Hundreds, Thousands, Tens of thousands?


    Does anyone care?
    • redux
    • By redux 8th Aug 18, 11:29 AM
    • 18,388 Posts
    • 24,441 Thanks
    redux
    The regulator is a joke, just like the Press Complains Commission, they are put their by their industry to protect them from criticism.


    Here the thing, how many people, the elderly and disabled, are paying 4.50 a week to these scammers?


    Hundreds, Thousands, Tens of thousands?


    Does anyone care?
    Originally posted by SaveMeDo
    Suggesting pragmatic approaches might be more useful than unfocused rants.

    I just want to know if anyone ever gets all their money back
    Originally posted by so02see
    Twice I've asked and been easily removed from such services.

    One had not actually charged me anything, but I still pointed out I hadn't subscribed to their service at all, and not wanted to receive the service message download link to some game, or whatever it was. There was a bit of confusion, as they couldn't find any record of my number. Eventually we had a mutual brainwave and discovered they had my Orange Answer Fax number, not the main one.

    On the other occasion a firm didn't quibble at all and politely sent me a cheque for 1.50.

    It goes both ways though. On yet another occasion I actually did want to subscribe to something, by deliberately sending a premium rate message. I was charged 12p, but the reply didn't come, so no other charge. I contacted the number provider, who said the block on premium services was in place by the mobile network. I contacted Carphone Warehouse (it was a Fresh SIM, with credit transferred across to them when Easy Mobile had closed down), and they refused to enable the service, pretending that T-Mobile were responsible for the block (which T-Mobile denied, said it was CPW).

    Yes, believe it or not, some do occasionally want to send some of their phone credit by using a premium service, for example charity donations to TV shows like Children in Need or Comic Relief.

    Note that the number provider is a phone company, and the actual premium service behind it is usually from another company. So whatever your opinion about the ethics involved, you don't need to sound off directly to the people you have a low opinion of.

    Talk to the phone firm, and most won't argue at all. Look up their contact details by searching the number on the regulator website.

    Then phone them up, calmly, say you didn't subscribe to the service, you want to be unsubscribed, and ask for your money back.

    Actually do it, instead of pessimistically complaining it's bound to be a waste of time.

    Yes, I see in the OP that you have, and the issue now is about a handling fee on the refund, but I'm saying this also for others who find this later.
    Last edited by redux; 08-08-2018 at 11:47 AM.
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 8th Aug 18, 12:37 PM
    • 8,833 Posts
    • 6,575 Thanks
    pmduk

    It seems that any tom !!!! or harry can request a telecom provider to take weekly payment off my phone, even on pay as you go phones, with "push" scams.
    Originally posted by SaveMeDo
    No, only a company with level one provider status can make these deductions and they are responsible for any deductions made.

    I've worked for a mobile network and investigated several claims of fraudulent charges. In most cases, customers had made concerted efforts to use the services charged for by signing up on a PC and then using a PIN number sent by email.

    MSE is just a commercial site, we employ MPs to sort these things for us, get on their case!
    Last edited by pmduk; 08-08-2018 at 12:41 PM.
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