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  • FIRST POST
    • RazBurley
    • By RazBurley 1st Aug 18, 12:30 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 1Thanks
    RazBurley
    Bw Legal Letter of Claim
    • #1
    • 1st Aug 18, 12:30 PM
    Bw Legal Letter of Claim 1st Aug 18 at 12:30 PM
    Hi, I need some advise about a letter of claim we received from Bwlegal. We have received a PCN from National Car Park in March 2018 for parking without payment of parking charge which we received by post. It was pay and display before but then they installed ANR cameras which we never knew. The driver parked there for less than 30 minutes. My wife is the registered keeper but she was not driving. We never paid and ignored all the letter so for but now we have received a letter of claim from BWLegal and asking us to pay the amount which is now £160 otherwise they will commence a legal action in form of issuing a claim against my wife in county court without any further notice. They have also included on the letter an estimated claim amount which is several hundred pounds. Also enclosed with the letter is information sheet, Reply Form and income and expenditure form. I have tried to insert link of photo of the letter but as new user i am not allowed to post any links. Can somebody please advice what to do next?

    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by RazBurley; 10-08-2018 at 12:52 AM.
Page 1
    • RazBurley
    • By RazBurley 1st Aug 18, 12:34 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RazBurley
    • #2
    • 1st Aug 18, 12:34 PM
    • #2
    • 1st Aug 18, 12:34 PM
    one more thing to add the car was registered on my wife's parents address but now we have changed the address but still getting the letter from her parents.
    • clairey262
    • By clairey262 1st Aug 18, 7:59 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    clairey262
    • #3
    • 1st Aug 18, 7:59 PM
    • #3
    • 1st Aug 18, 7:59 PM
    I am following this because I have basically the same story: ANR camera caught me 2 mins later than my ticket allowed. Appealed and it got refused as expected, I!!!8217;ve since ignored all the letters from NCP as advised but today I also received a letter from BW Legal saying the same. !!!55358;!!!56596;
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 1st Aug 18, 8:17 PM
    • 11,225 Posts
    • 11,790 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #4
    • 1st Aug 18, 8:17 PM
    • #4
    • 1st Aug 18, 8:17 PM
    Hi, I need some advise about a letter of claim we received from Bwlegal. We have received a PCN from National Car Park in March 2018 for parking without payment of parking charge which we received by post. It was pay and display before but then they installed ANR cameras which we never knew. We parked there for less than 30 minutes. My wife is the registered keeper but she was not driving but was in the car. We never paid and ignored all the letter so for but now we have received a letter of claim from BWLegal and asking us to pay the amount which is now £160 before 30/08/2018 otherwise they will commence a legal action in form of issuing a claim against my wife in county court without any further notice. They have also included on the letter an estimated claim amount which is £239.91. Also enclosed with the letter is information sheet, Reply Form and income and expenditure form. I have tried to insert link of photo of the letter but as new user i am not allowed to post any links. Can somebody please advice what to do next?

    Thanks in advance
    Originally posted by xxx
    Firstly, if you have used you real name as your forum username, then best you get it changed to something more anonymous.

    To do that, read this short extract from The MSE Forum Guide - Frequently Asked Questions & Rules:
    Q. How can I change my username?

    A.
    In most circumstances, this is not permitted.

    The only reason we will change your username is if it puts your privacy at risk. This usually means you've inadvertently registered using your name, email address or something that gives away your identity within your username.

    If you fall into this category, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com and request that it is changed, giving three alternative usernames in order of preference.
    You now need to read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread where you will find guidance on how to respond to BWL's Letter of Claim.


    one more thing to add the car was registered on my wife's parents address but now we have changed the address but still getting the letter from her parents.
    Originally posted by xxx
    They can only get the keeper details once from the DVLA, so if the RK's address has changed since their enquiry they will not know about it.
    You need to advise BWL and NCP in writing about the RK's current address for service otherwise you may risk getting a County Court Judgment against you without getting the opportunity to defend.
    Last edited by KeithP; 10-08-2018 at 12:10 PM.
    .
    • clairey262
    • By clairey262 9th Aug 18, 4:18 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    clairey262
    • #5
    • 9th Aug 18, 4:18 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Aug 18, 4:18 PM
    Sorry trying to find my original thread, not v good at this.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Aug 18, 4:20 PM
    • 37,988 Posts
    • 22,099 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #6
    • 9th Aug 18, 4:20 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Aug 18, 4:20 PM
    @clairey


    You need to post this in your own thread and not hijack someone else's like this


    Copy and paste the above into your thread and delete it from here
    • RazBurley
    • By RazBurley 10th Aug 18, 1:28 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RazBurley
    • #7
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:28 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Aug 18, 1:28 AM
    @KeithP, thanks for your reply and sorry I was away so could not check. I will request my user name to be more anonymous. I have read the post 2 of thread you mentioned and shall i just write following Or can we just ask her parents to return the letter back to sender saying ''does not live here anymore'' ? We did not reply to any of the letters before.

    [COLOR="Black"]Your Ref:xxxxxxxxxxx

    Dear Sirs,

    I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of (date).
    Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.

    Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

    Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

    As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

    Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

    I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    1. an explanation of the cause of action
    2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
    5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
    6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
    7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 !!!8220;establishing yourself as the creditor!!!8221;
    8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
    9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
    11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form


    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) !!!8211; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

    Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.


    Yours faithfully


    Thanks
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 10th Aug 18, 8:23 AM
    • 37,988 Posts
    • 22,099 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #8
    • 10th Aug 18, 8:23 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Aug 18, 8:23 AM
    It's really important for you to ensure they have your new address.

    Otherwise you risk a default ccj turning up because you missed court correspondence
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Aug 18, 9:10 AM
    • 10,963 Posts
    • 10,926 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #9
    • 10th Aug 18, 9:10 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Aug 18, 9:10 AM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • RazBurley
    • By RazBurley 13th Aug 18, 1:08 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RazBurley
    It's really important for you to ensure they have your new address.

    Otherwise you risk a default ccj turning up because you missed court correspondence
    Originally posted by Quentin
    Hi Quentin, We still get the letters from her parents so should be ok if we get a letter from court. Can you please advise if the above reply is fine as we never replied to any letter from NCP or any debt recovery company. Many Thanks
    • RazBurley
    • By RazBurley 13th Aug 18, 1:13 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RazBurley
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    The Deep, yes this is getting ridicules and specially with the increased used of ANPR cameras you never know when you will get an parking charge and its effecting everyday life as everywhere there are these private companies looking for drivers. It definitely needs to be regulated. Do you have a sample letter which you would like to share which we can send to our MPs? Many Thanks
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Aug 18, 1:31 PM
    • 37,988 Posts
    • 22,099 Thanks
    Quentin
    There's no downside to giving your correct address

    Should you be sent a court claim you have limited time to respond and if it coincides with the householders bring away on holiday you could get a ccj on your record without knowing about it

    Add your correct address to that letter and ask them to use it for any future correspondence

    Also notify ncp
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Aug 18, 1:50 PM
    • 10,963 Posts
    • 10,926 Thanks
    The Deep
    Do you have a sample letter which you would like to share which we can send to our MPs? Many Thanks

    Sorry, there isn't one. Just tell it as it is, he/she probably gets lots of such letters. as these scammer issue thousands of these fake charges each day.i
    Last edited by The Deep; 13-08-2018 at 1:52 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • RazBurley
    • By RazBurley 11th Sep 18, 2:01 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RazBurley
    Hi All, Sorry due to some problems could not send reply to BW Legal. Now we have revived a claim letter form County court which was issued last week. can somebody please post a defence here which I can send to court? the total amount for the claim is £242.24 Many Thanks
    Last edited by RazBurley; 16-09-2018 at 1:05 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 11th Sep 18, 2:11 PM
    • 11,225 Posts
    • 11,790 Thanks
    KeithP
    You don't seem to have taken notice of advice given earlier - your username remains unchanged.

    Have you notified the PPC of your current address?

    What response did you get to your complaint to your MP?

    What is the Date of Issue on your Claim Form?

    You will not get anyone posting a Defence here for you.
    This is a self help forum.
    You do the research using guidance offered here.
    There is plenty of guidance on how to create a Defence in post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread. You have already been given a link to that thread.

    Post your draft Defence here for comment when you are ready to do so.
    .
    • RazBurley
    • By RazBurley 16th Sep 18, 1:21 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RazBurley
    County Court Claim Form
    Hi Keith, i am sorry I had a very bad last month, lost my job and some other family problems so could not do any of these things. I will definitely write to my MP once i have sorted my things. Claim was issued on 05/09, I have done AOS on MCOL website. Can i submit my defence online as it has an option to start defence online and it allows 121 lines of defence? Also shall i mention that we did not receive any letters? I have used my new address on MCOL website. Following is particulars of claim on claim form.

    ‘’The claimant’s claim is for the sum of £242.24 being monies due from the defendant to the claimant in respect of parking charge notice for a parking contravention which occurred on (date) in the private car park/land at (address of car park) in relation to (car details). The defendant was allowed 28 days from PCN date to pay but failed to do so. Despite demand having been made, the defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability. The claim also includes statuary interest pursuant to section 69 of CC act 1984 at a rate of (%) from the date (date of issue of NTK). The claimant claim includes £60 costs as set out in terms and conditions’’

    Is following defence is enough?

    1. It is admitted that the Defendant was the authorised registered keeper of the vehicle in question at the time of the alleged incident.

    2. The identity of the driver of the vehicle on the date in question has not been ascertained.

    a. The Claimant did not identify the driver
    b. The Defendant has no liability, as they are the Keeper of the vehicle and the Claimant must rely upon the strict provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 in order to hold the defendant responsible for the driver’s alleged breach.
    c. The Claimant's demanding letter failed to evidence any contravention or clear/prominent signage

    3. The Claimant has at no time provided an explanation how the sum has been calculated, the conduct that gave rise to it or how the amount has climbed from £100 to £160. This appears to be an added cost with no reason and an attempt at double recovery, which the POFA Schedule 4 specifically disallows.

    a. The Protection of Freedom Act Para 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper.

    4. The signage was inadequate to form a contract with the motorist

    a. The signage on this site is inadequate to form a contract. It is barely legible, making it difficult to read, it is only visible on foot and not in direct line of site meaning you have to go out of your way to look for the sign

    5. The driver did not enter into any 'agreement on the charge', no consideration flowed between the parties and no contract was established.

    a. In Jolley v Carmel Ltd [2000] 2 EGLR 154, it was held that a party who makes reasonable endeavours to comply with contractual terms, should not be penalised for breach when unable to fully comply with the terms

    6. The claimant has not provided enough details in the particulars of claim to file a full
    defence. In particular, the full details of the contract which it is alleged was broken
    have not been provided.

    a. The Claimant has disclosed no cause of action to give rise to any debt.
    b. The Claimant has stated that a parking charge was incurred.

    7 The Claimant has given no indication of the nature of the alleged charge in the
    Particulars of Claim.
    a. The Claimant has therefore disclosed no cause of action.
    b. The Particulars of Claim contains no details and fails to establish a cause of action which would enable the Defendant to prepare a specific defence. It just states “parking charges” which does not give any indication of on what basis the claim is brought.
    c. There is no information regarding why the charge arose, what the original charge
    was, what the alleged contract was nor anything which could be considered a fair
    exchange of information.
    d. The Particulars of Claim are incompetent in disclosing no cause of action.
    e. On the 20th September 2016 another relevant poorly pleaded private parking
    charge claim by Gladstones was struck out by District Judge Cross of St
    Albans County Court without a hearing due to their ‘roboclaim’ particulars being incoherent, failing to comply with CPR. 16.4 and ‘providing no facts that could give rise to any apparent claim in law.’
    f. On the 27th July 2016 DJ Anson sitting at Preston County Court ruled that the very similar parking charge particulars of claim were efficient and failing to meet CPR 16.4 and PD 16 paragraphs 7.3 – 7.6. He ordered the Claimant in that case to file new particulars which they failed to do and so the court confirmed that the claim be struck out.


    Many Thanks
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Sep 18, 1:33 PM
    • 11,225 Posts
    • 11,790 Thanks
    KeithP
    Claim was issued on 05/09, I have done AOS on MCOL website.
    With a Claim Issue Date of 5th September, and having done the AoS in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 8th October 2018 to file your Defence.

    That's three weeks away. Plenty of time to hone the Defence to perfection.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as described here:

    1) Print your Defence.
    2) Sign it and date it.
    3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7) Wait for the Directions Questionnaire and come back here.


    Can i submit my defence online as it has an option to start defence online and it allows 121 lines of defence?
    You can, but there are a number of very good reasons why you should not do that.

    As those reasons are fully explained in post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread, it is a little disappointing to see that question.
    .
    • RazBurley
    • By RazBurley 7th Dec 18, 3:01 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RazBurley
    Hi,
    I need further advice now please.
    I submitted defence through email in time which was acknowledged as well. I was waiting for the Directions Questionnaire which i did not receive so far from court. BWLegal sent me a copy of their Questionnaire as information and told that same has been sent to court. I kept checking online on MCOL and my case was marked as defended. Today I have received a pack from BWLegal that their client is willing to settle the matter without any further involvement from court and offered me to pay 165 within 14 days otherwise their client will continue to pursue the claim through court.

    They have written down loads of reason on which basis the claim can be persuaded through court.
    This includes
    That client claim is for the damages as a direct result of our breach of client’s terms and condition.
    Client is engaged by the landowner of the car park to manage and enforce the parking.
    Signage is situated across the car park form unilateral offer to anyone wishing to park and loads of other points.

    They have also sent me copies of original NTK and reminders which was sent to us also photos of car park signs including sign at entrance and other signs in the car park.

    Can you please advice what to do next?

    Many Thanks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th Dec 18, 7:11 AM
    • 20,522 Posts
    • 32,440 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Standard BWL template and practice.

    The bargepole input to the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 tells you about the (premature) DQ from the Claimant's solicitors, and what your next actions are.

    This part of the sticky is written by a legally qualified expert in fighting private parking tickets, please use that as your first port of call. There are very few regulars here who are as qualified as bargepole, so you risk getting and taking advice from random other posters, not so qualified.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • RazBurley
    • By RazBurley 9th Dec 18, 5:46 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RazBurley
    Hi Umkomass.

    Thank you very much for your reply. I have read the post from bargepole but I can not understand what to do next as I never received any DQ from court and now shall I just ignore this offer from BWLegal and wait for the court instuctions?

    many thanks
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