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  • FIRST POST
    • mbee123
    • By mbee123 31st Jul 18, 4:23 PM
    • 134Posts
    • 31Thanks
    mbee123
    BT Pension Retirement Statement
    • #1
    • 31st Jul 18, 4:23 PM
    BT Pension Retirement Statement 31st Jul 18 at 4:23 PM
    Hi,

    I'm a deferred Section C member in the BT scheme and have recently turned 51, I left BT around 7 years ago.

    I raised a query about 4 months ago regarding my 'last day of service figure' as I believe it is slightly lower than it should be but in error they have sent me a Retirement Statement, and the figures have got me thinking, even slightly tempted.

    As of October 2017 my annual pension was valued at 15044 payable at 65 although the majority would be available at 60 without penalty, and I had planned to draw it then.

    The retirement statement offers an annual pension of 11210 + 1735 lump sum or 9041 + lump sum 60276. This doesn't seem like much of a reduction (around 26%) to take it 9 years early. I have asked BT to send me the reduction factor calculations as the figures look too high to me.

    I am currently working and to draw my pension now would push part of it into the higher tax bracket but going down to 4 days may be an option which would mean 20% tax on almost all of it. It could even allow me to explore other options as I don't particularly enjoy my current job.

    I plan to retire in around 5-6 years, I would appreciate some fairly swift advise as I need to respond within a couple of days.

    Should I consider taking the pension now without taking much of a hit on it or should I leave as is?

    Thanks for any advise...
    Last edited by mbee123; 02-08-2018 at 11:10 AM.
Page 2
    • camelopardis
    • By camelopardis 6th Aug 18, 11:39 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    camelopardis
    These figures are much better than the equivalent LGPS ones. For example, at age 55 there is a reduction of 24% compared to 14.7% at BT. I am not sure how that can be justified since both are supposed to be actuarialy neutral.
    Originally posted by Teaandscones

    Its actually 17.8% at 55, but yes, your point still stands.
    • mbee123
    • By mbee123 6th Aug 18, 12:15 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    mbee123
    The figures were revised in June 2018 and I think Tigerspill got those recently. There is no way that you will get only a 6% reduction at age 51. And there is no way that the figures will be 11.3% either. Why don't you ask the administrators to send you the tables and then you can be assured When I asked them for scheme B figures I got them the same day.

    Something is wrong somewhere. What have you received that leads you to believe that you are being quoted only a 6% reduction ?

    By the way the set of figures that mbee posted look like they refer to GMP ? Isn't that guarantee minimum pension. If it is then that's not what we've been talking about here and probably not relevant to you. So I would ignore.
    I have questioned the reduction figures with BT but it sounds like you are right, in that it is probably the GMP element of my pension.
    I am awaiting updated figures from BT which should make it simpler to determine if it makes sense for me to take my pension now

    eaec001 - can you post your reduction rate figures when you get them please
    • mbee123
    • By mbee123 6th Aug 18, 4:10 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    mbee123
    Anyhow, you may not be aware that the BT pension portal is now available to us outside of the intranet. And very handy it is too.
    https://btpensionsportal.com/PWPUser/Account/Login?ReturnUrl=%2FPWPUser%2F

    You can request quotes and transfer values easily there, and from that you can see what your unreduced pension would be.
    At these reduction rates, it's almost a no-brainer, IMHO.
    I've just tried registering for this and hit some problems, contacted help desk and was told it's not available to ex employees as yet which is why I could not log on, any other deferred members able to register and log on?
    • jennyjj
    • By jennyjj 6th Aug 18, 8:37 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 402 Thanks
    jennyjj
    I've just tried registering for this and hit some problems, contacted help desk and was told it's not available to ex employees as yet which is why I could not log on, any other deferred members able to register and log on?
    Originally posted by mbee123
    That's bullspit. I left BT 8 years ago and am deferred section B. You can't be much more ex-employee than that. All I needed to enroll ( last month ), IIRC, was my precious EIN or pension number and a working email account.
    • tigerspill
    • By tigerspill 6th Aug 18, 9:50 PM
    • 347 Posts
    • 135 Thanks
    tigerspill
    I've just tried registering for this and hit some problems, contacted help desk and was told it's not available to ex employees as yet which is why I could not log on, any other deferred members able to register and log on?
    Originally posted by mbee123
    I though that one of the main reasons for making this accessible externally was because of exactly this - to allow those that have left to get access.
    • robin61
    • By robin61 7th Aug 18, 4:26 PM
    • 669 Posts
    • 486 Thanks
    robin61
    These figures are much better than the equivalent LGPS ones. For example, at age 55 there is a reduction of 24% compared to 14.7% at BT. I am not sure how that can be justified since both are supposed to be actuarialy neutral.
    Originally posted by Teaandscones
    You would thinks so wouldn't you ?
    The new reduction rates were introduced as part of the recently negotiated changes to the pension schemes and in parallel to that BT announced 13,000 mainly management job reductions. Not a lot by way of good news for younger people but in many ways it's worked out quite nicely for people closer to retirement.
    • eaec001
    • By eaec001 8th Aug 18, 10:08 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    eaec001
    Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 at 9:52
    Subject: RITM3177121 - BT Pensions
    Dear Miss.Cooper,

    Thankyou for your response.

    In regards to your enquiry.

    1. What is the reduction per year for taking a pre-2009 Section C pension early?
    Section C Members

    Early payment of actuarially reduced pension after age 50

    Pre April 09 service:

    Retirement age 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60
    % reduction 12.1 11.3 10.4 9.4 8.4 7.2 6.0 4.7 3.2 1.7 0.0

    Just received this from BT pensions! No wonder I get confused!
    • mbee123
    • By mbee123 8th Aug 18, 10:53 AM
    • 134 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    mbee123
    Pre April 09 service:

    Retirement age 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60
    % reduction 12.1 11.3 10.4 9.4 8.4 7.2 6.0 4.7 3.2 1.7 0.0
    Thanks for posting, exactly the same figures as me, but there is some confusion over it being for all of the pension or GMP element, do you have all of the figures to calculate and see what the actual deduction is?

    That's bullspit. I left BT 8 years ago and am deferred section B. You can't be much more ex-employee than that. All I needed to enroll ( last month ), IIRC, was my precious EIN or pension number and a working email account.
    Still no joy getting a working log in, I've raised it with 3 different help desk staff, who gave me the same story, not available for deferred members as yet but it's coming!
    • jennyjj
    • By jennyjj 8th Aug 18, 11:03 AM
    • 316 Posts
    • 402 Thanks
    jennyjj
    No confusion, mbee123. The percentage reduction is applied to all of the future pension, in perpetuity.
    It is also applied to the tax free lump sum, whichever option is taken.
    Quotes and crystalisation forms tell you the reduced amounts that you will receive. If you want to know the unreduced value, that's available through the web site.

    I do recall that when signing up for that web site, that there was something weirdly counterintuitive that made sign up either fail, or appear to fail. You need the correct pension reference ( I'd thought it was ein ) I can't remember what the obtuse stumbling point was but I did figure it out. Maybe it was required password strength. Try again, but very carefully follow the instructions.
    • eaec001
    • By eaec001 8th Aug 18, 11:30 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    eaec001
    Mbee123
    Sorry, replying is a bit odd on my phone!
    I've now asked for exactly how they calculated my recent quote. Now I know that there are annual rises applied to my deferred pension (still feeling stupid about that) it is actually a 28% reduction that was applied not 11.3% as in this morning's email. So just when I thought it was all clear......
    • robin61
    • By robin61 8th Aug 18, 12:41 PM
    • 669 Posts
    • 486 Thanks
    robin61
    Mbee123
    Sorry, replying is a bit odd on my phone!
    I've now asked for exactly how they calculated my recent quote. Now I know that there are annual rises applied to my deferred pension (still feeling stupid about that) it is actually a 28% reduction that was applied not 11.3% as in this morning's email. So just when I thought it was all clear......
    Originally posted by eaec001
    That's in line with the scheme C figures Jenny posted. I don't really know what that 11% refers to but it certainly isn't the reduction for taking your pension at 51. Although it would be nice and an absolute no brainer.
    • jennyjj
    • By jennyjj 8th Aug 18, 12:58 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 402 Thanks
    jennyjj
    That's in line with the scheme C figures Jenny posted. I don't really know what that 11% refers to but it certainly isn't the reduction for taking your pension at 51. Although it would be nice and an absolute no brainer.
    Originally posted by robin61
    As I understand it, the OP had deduced that it was 11%, based on a comparison to her actual final salary and her years of contribution, but had overlooked the fact that her pension has been growing since she quit.
    Last edited by jennyjj; 08-08-2018 at 1:00 PM.
    • eaec001
    • By eaec001 8th Aug 18, 1:24 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    eaec001
    Thanks for posting, exactly the same figures as me, but there is some confusion over it being for all of the pension or GMP element, do you have all of the figures to calculate and see what the actual deduction is?



    Still no joy getting a working log in, I've raised it with 3 different help desk staff, who gave me the same story, not available for deferred members as yet but it's coming!
    Originally posted by mbee123
    As I understand it, the OP had deduced that it was 11%, based on a comparison to her actual final salary and her years of contribution, but had overlooked the fact that her pension has been growing since she quit.
    Originally posted by jennyjj
    Hi Jenny
    The quote I had made sense in terms of a 28% reduction once you had pointed out the annual increase (I got logged onto the portal and was able to see what my current age 60 pension will be).
    All was well in my world at that point however this morning BT pensions sent me an email of the reductions and low and behold the 11% figure at age 51 appears - I cut and paste the response in an earlier posting today.
    Further clarification from pensions requested!
    • jennyjj
    • By jennyjj 8th Aug 18, 1:50 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 402 Thanks
    jennyjj
    Hi Jenny
    The quote I had made sense in terms of a 28% reduction once you had pointed out the annual increase (I got logged onto the portal and was able to see what my current age 60 pension will be).
    All was well in my world at that point however this morning BT pensions sent me an email of the reductions and low and behold the 11% figure at age 51 appears - I cut and paste the response in an earlier posting today.
    Further clarification from pensions requested!
    Originally posted by eaec001
    This is very odd.
    The reduction of 28.6% as shown in the latest table from Tigerspill is correct. That's the reduction rate applied to the full pension and the lump sum.

    The table that mbee posted is in a similar format but shows massively lower reductio rates (11.1% at 51 ) The quote in Mbee's table has the letters GMB above the table. So it seem's he/she has been quoted something completely different to Actuarial reduction rates. Certainly not 11.1%. That would be insane AR rate.
    • jennyjj
    • By jennyjj 8th Aug 18, 1:53 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 402 Thanks
    jennyjj
    Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 at 9:52
    Subject: RITM3177121 - BT Pensions
    Dear Miss.Cooper,

    Thankyou for your response.

    In regards to your enquiry.

    1. What is the reduction per year for taking a pre-2009 Section C pension early?
    Section C Members

    Early payment of actuarially reduced pension after age 50

    Pre April 09 service:

    Retirement age 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60
    % reduction 12.1 11.3 10.4 9.4 8.4 7.2 6.0 4.7 3.2 1.7 0.0

    Just received this from BT pensions! No wonder I get confused!
    Originally posted by eaec001
    No way those rates are right. Rates reduced in June, but not that far.
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=74433375&postcount=92
    • eaec001
    • By eaec001 8th Aug 18, 2:05 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    eaec001
    No way those rates are right.
    Originally posted by jennyjj
    I know! Someone at BT pensions must have got it very wrong in their response to my query. But that is an exact cut and paste of my question and their response I'd love them to be right as I'd take that reduction in a heartbeat.
    Guess I'll just have to see how they answer my follow up query
    • jennyjj
    • By jennyjj 8th Aug 18, 8:44 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 402 Thanks
    jennyjj
    I know! Someone at BT pensions must have got it very wrong in their response to my query. But that is an exact cut and paste of my question and their response I'd love them to be right as I'd take that reduction in a heartbeat.
    Guess I'll just have to see how they answer my follow up query
    Originally posted by eaec001
    In light of this outrageously wrong info, I'd suggest that when you ring up, you should challenge them on just that one 11% number and if they say that's what it is, you should insist to be put through to the UK team. They are perfectly capable of transferring you through, just very stubborn. I find it helpful to repeatedly ask the advisor's name and ask if the call is recorded. That helps focus attention.
    • camelopardis
    • By camelopardis 9th Aug 18, 12:46 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    camelopardis
    That's bullspit. I left BT 8 years ago and am deferred section B. You can't be much more ex-employee than that. All I needed to enroll ( last month ), IIRC, was my precious EIN or pension number and a working email account.
    Originally posted by jennyjj

    Can confirm it works for me too, and I left 2 years ago. Interestingly, I enrolled some time ago and previously just got visibility of my AVC fund (which was still useful). It's only been in the last couple of weeks that I can now suddenly see BOTH my section b pensions (yeah, I actually have two deferred section Bs, one before I TUPEd out, and another from when I TUPEd back in!)
    • mbee123
    • By mbee123 31st Aug 18, 9:38 AM
    • 134 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    mbee123
    I'm a bit further on but it's slow progress dealing with BT Deferred benefits team!

    Got some actual figures which I can work back to get the true reduction %

    Current Value as of today - 15819 per annum (payable at NRA, which for the majority of my pension is 60) (3862 lump sum)

    Benefits as of 28/06/18 (51st birthday) - 11402 per annum (2313 lump sum)

    So a reduction of around 28% to take my pension 9 years early, (slightly less as the dates are 2 months apart) which is favourable compared to reduction factors in my other pension scheme which is 4-5% per annum.

    And I still can't get logged into the BT portal, I'm told it will be available for deferred employees some time in October.
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