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  • FIRST POST
    • fuziduck
    • By fuziduck 30th Jul 18, 9:26 PM
    • 23Posts
    • 19Thanks
    fuziduck
    Indigo Parking - Railway Car Park - Appeal Rejected
    • #1
    • 30th Jul 18, 9:26 PM
    Indigo Parking - Railway Car Park - Appeal Rejected 30th Jul 18 at 9:26 PM
    Hello All,

    I've been fighting a PCN received in a railway car park managed by Indigo on the 30th April
    I've followed the advice to ignore the initial Penalty Notice issued on the car. Following this, the PCN Admin Centre have issued a Notice to Owner to the Registered Keeper, this was appealed with the standard template as noted in the newbies thread.
    The registered keeper has now received a notice from iPayMyPCN (PCN Admin Centre) trading name of ZZPS Limited.
    It states the appeal has been rejected for not parking with the marked bay and is therefore in breach of the terms and conditioned displayed on the signage.
    It goes on to state that the appeals procedure has now reached the end and I am now required to pay the outstanding balance.
    It also states the usual line about by law they are required to inform of the Ombudsman Services provides ADR however they have chosen not to participate.

    I believe I am now at the stage of responding and requesting a POPLA code / ADR. (Only issue is they issued the latest letter on the 13th July and they expected payment within 14 days of the letter, so last Friday), but I think I've read that timelines like this are fabricated so I can reply whenever?

    I have drafted the following short response to engage Indigo in mail ping pong. (Should this be addressed to ZZPS (Addlestone) or Indigo Park Solutions UK (Watford)?
    Further to a letter received on the 13th July 2018 from PCN Admin Centre based in Bacchus House, Addlestone, the Registered Keeper of this vehicle requires an Alternative Dispute Resolution service to be made available.
    Your letter states that by law you are required to inform that the Ombudsman Services provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with the appeal. Yet you have ‘chosen’ not to participate in their service.
    It is a legal requirement to provide a form of alternative dispute as per the Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes Act of 2015.
    As the Registered Keeper POPLA is being requested as this form of Alternative Dispute Resolution, please provide the relevant details to the above address.
    Your advice would be greatly received.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 30th Jul 18, 9:32 PM
    • 19,586 Posts
    • 24,894 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 30th Jul 18, 9:32 PM
    • #2
    • 30th Jul 18, 9:32 PM
    yes, just keep stringing it out past the 6 month deadline, slowly , very slowly

    they definitely will not give a POPLA code so will mention this fact which they say the BPA agreed with

    as the driver and owner have not been divulged, then as keeper you are bulletproof and the TOC wont be issuing a penalty notice and taking anyone to Mags Court within the 6 month deadline

    its just a game of cat and mouse, but a keeper only has to go through the motions for 6 months , then tell them to FRO as bylaws apply and the court deadline has passed

    plenty of other INDIGO threads on this so read them if you dont understand
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 30th Jul 18, 9:37 PM
    • 37,552 Posts
    • 84,481 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #3
    • 30th Jul 18, 9:37 PM
    • #3
    • 30th Jul 18, 9:37 PM
    Ignore the debt collectors, send the ping pong to Indigo.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 30th Jul 18, 9:42 PM
    • 19,691 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    • #4
    • 30th Jul 18, 9:42 PM
    • #4
    • 30th Jul 18, 9:42 PM
    Ignore any demand for money - you won't be paying anything unless a Judge orders that.

    I'd respond to the originator of the letter and, as they are the trading name of ZZPS (who are BPA members), I'd demand a POPLA Code from them. Not that you will get one, but it tees them up for a complaint to the BPA (who can't fob you off with Indigo has dispensation not to offer POPLA' excuse), with cc to the DVLA, as it's ZZPS now pursuing you, but seemingly as a PPC, not as a debt collector.

    Sooner or later they are going to make a major screw up in tightroping some of this stuff.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • fuziduck
    • By fuziduck 30th Jul 18, 10:17 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    fuziduck
    • #5
    • 30th Jul 18, 10:17 PM
    • #5
    • 30th Jul 18, 10:17 PM
    Thanks for the super quick response from the experts!
    Will respond as advised and keep everyone posted if anything new or exciting comes up next!
    • fuziduck
    • By fuziduck 6th Aug 18, 1:51 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    fuziduck
    • #6
    • 6th Aug 18, 1:51 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Aug 18, 1:51 PM
    Hello All,

    Seems ZZPS are quick on the ball at responding to letters.

    I sent them a letter on the 1st Aug and they responded on the 2nd Aug (received today). Anyway, it says:

    Please note, as this account has progressed to the debt recovery stage the options currently available are to either pay the outstanding balance in full or allow this account to progress accordingly.

    Our client feels there is sufficient evidence to pursue this PN and have maintained their instruction to recover the outstanding balance. If the account remains unresolved it will progress to the legal stage and be passed to the solicitors.

    Your Sincerely

    Named (No signature though)
    So deconstructing this slightly, they are essentially saying pay now or we will go legal on you.
    Not forgetting they have offered no form of alternative dispute resolution as per the BPA terms.

    Any suggestions on where I should go now with ZZPS or should I respond to Indigo and ask why they have released my details to a 3rd party?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Aug 18, 2:00 PM
    • 19,691 Posts
    • 31,162 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:00 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:00 PM
    Don't deal with ZZPS, they have confirmed that they are now acting in a debt collector capacity in this case. Wait around for a couple of weeks (to get closer to the 6-months winning last be), then I'd fire a letter (2nd class) to Indigo asking some daft question about some aspect of the charge and ask they respond directly to you.

    Then continue this letter ping-pong with Indigo. Any refusal/intransigence on their part, I'd be firing off a complaint to the BPA and the DVLA stating that you are trying to narrow down the issues, but this is impossible because of Indigo's unwillingness to correspond. And I'd do that every time they drag their heels.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 06-08-2018 at 2:18 PM.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Aug 18, 2:01 PM
    • 10,238 Posts
    • 10,131 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #8
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:01 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:01 PM
    All you need do is keep asking them daft question for six months and then they are Donald Ducked.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • fuziduck
    • By fuziduck 6th Aug 18, 2:12 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    fuziduck
    • #9
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:12 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Aug 18, 2:12 PM
    Ok I'll wait a week or two and then send a letter to Indigo. I have already contacted ZZPS as advised, does this matter? Should I state in a letter back to Indigo anything about the letters received from ZZPS?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Aug 18, 2:20 PM
    • 19,691 Posts
    • 31,162 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    It doesn't matter you've contacted ZZPS previously, but now they've confirmed they are acting in a debt collector capacity in this case, forum advice is to ignore all debt crawlers.

    I wouldn't mention ZZPS correspondence to Indigo, I can't see how it could help you. Am I missing something?
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 6th Aug 18, 2:57 PM
    • 4,423 Posts
    • 5,812 Thanks
    waamo
    Dear Indigo, can you clarify what you mean by progressing to the legal stage? I am confused as to what this means. Will it result in a ccj?

    You can string out dumb questions like that for months. Amazingly indigo will respond with such gibberish as to make further questions inevitable.
    This space for hire.
    • fuziduck
    • By fuziduck 16th Aug 18, 12:43 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    fuziduck
    Hi All,

    Should I continue responding to Indigo even though I've had further advice from ZZPS advising they are going to pass this to QDR?

    It appears my letters to Indigo have no effect on ZZPS and QDR as they just continue progressing the account regardless.

    The latest letter says the following:

    We wrote to you previously about this Charge, and according to us, the Charge remains unpaid.

    The Charge is an offer for you to make payment of an alternative charge under Railway Byelaws. If the charge is not paid, then our Client is entitled to commence a private criminal prosecution against you for your breach of Railway Byelaw 14. This could result in you being fined up to £1,000 (level 3 on the standard scale, set out in section 37 of the criminal Justice Act 1982).

    By breaching Railway Byelaw 14, you have committed an offence. The Charge has been issued under section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 as amended under the Railways Act 2005.

    Our next course of action is to pass this account to the law firm QDR Solicitors Limited. We would prefer to get to the bottom of this with you, without the need to use lawyers. However, we are duty bound to advise you that if this does get passed to solicitors, the balance owing may well increase.

    The criminal prosecution process is not simple; if you need legal or debt advice, places where this can be sought are detailed on the reverse of this letter.

    If is in your interests to either get in touch or pay this Charge and we again invite you to do so.

    Your sincerely
    Customer Services
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th Aug 18, 12:57 PM
    • 19,691 Posts
    • 31,162 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    our Client is entitled to commence a private criminal prosecution against you for your breach of Railway Byelaw 14. This could result in you being fined up to £1,000 (level 3 on the standard scale, set out in section 37 of the criminal Justice Act 1982).
    If their client is Indigo, then no they are not so entitled. This is an utter misrepresentation of the law and of your position vis a vis Indigo.

    By breaching Railway Byelaw 14, you have committed an offence.
    Where is their proof? Only a Judge can tell you that you have committed an offence.

    This must be reported to the BPA and the DVLA - a major complaint. ZZPS are BPA members, as are Indigo. Indigo are jointly and severally responsible for the actions of their agents.

    steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

    ccrt@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Aug 18, 4:37 PM
    • 19,586 Posts
    • 24,894 Thanks
    Redx
    Hi All,

    It appears my letters to Indigo have no effect on ZZPS and QDR as they just continue progressing the account regardless.
    Originally posted by fuziduck
    they are not expected to have an effect on thePPC & debt collectors etc

    they are a dlaying tactic to get it past the 6 month deadline

    until then , NOTHING you can say , type or do will have any effect on this landslide , its all about delaying it until the threat of MAGS COURT has expired (6 months)

    if you think its going to have any effect you are not up to speed on this sc@m at all , of course they are going to carry on regardless, its a well worn sc@m and they are just going through the motions, they are fully aware of what they are doing and why
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Aug 18, 1:29 AM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,656 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It appears my letters to Indigo have no effect on ZZPS and QDR as they just continue progressing the account regardless.
    'Processing the account' - LOL - sending letters then - so what?

    You know from other recent Indigo railway threads we hope you have searched for and read avidly, that Indigo only have a contract to issue pre-action letters re railways.

    PRE-action letters are nothing, then it gets timed out, same as ALL other threads. We do not need to discuss this every week every time someone gets one exactly the same as all the other Indigo railway PCNs, as it clutters up the forum and needs no new advice.
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