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  • FIRST POST
    • peterbaker
    • By peterbaker 30th Jul 18, 11:54 AM
    • 2,068Posts
    • 818Thanks
    peterbaker
    Don't be fooled by cunning con artists
    • #1
    • 30th Jul 18, 11:54 AM
    Don't be fooled by cunning con artists 30th Jul 18 at 11:54 AM
    I guess this is apt for the times - a July standard notification message in online banking from one of the majors - maybe sent to all customers or maybe to over 60s?:

    Personal: Don't be fooled by cunning con artists

    Fraudsters can "spoof" text messages and set up emails to make them look like they're from us. Never give out your personal or financial information via email or text message. If you receive a phone call and you're not totally sure that it's from us, call us back instead. You can dial the number on the back of your Barclays debit card or use our number checker to make sure any other number is genuine. Just search "Barclays number checker" in your web browser. Get top tips on staying digitally safe and find out about our Digital Eagle events - visit www.barclays.co.uk/digitaleagles or follow us on Twitter @Digitaleagles
    {my red bolded}

    It might have been pertinent to warn customers what happens if you do get fooled and lose money from your account, not just by persons masquerading as your bank, but e.g. from Microsoft Tech Support.

    Will you ever get your money back? Now there's a question with hopefully non-evasive answers from your bank, and well worth knowing in advance. Perhaps worth calling your bank to find out now? For example,
    • Are you still allowed by your bank to routinely answer the phone by giving out Personal Data e.g. your name and number?
    • Are you still allowed to answer the phone whilst operating your computer or must you switch it off and stay away from it for the duration of the call?
    Crazy questions to put to your bank? Maybe not anymore.
    Last edited by peterbaker; 30-07-2018 at 12:03 PM.
Page 7
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 6th Aug 18, 7:18 PM
    • 7,846 Posts
    • 8,667 Thanks
    eskbanker
    Have you lot not got that room yet?
    Originally posted by Zanderman
    Aaaarrrggghhh, even the jokes are going round in ever-decreasing circles now....
    • peterbaker
    • By peterbaker 6th Aug 18, 8:12 PM
    • 2,068 Posts
    • 818 Thanks
    peterbaker
    Have you lot not got that room yet?
    Originally posted by Zanderman
    Might that be the room where all the major bank CEOs are hauled in before FCA and PRA under auspices of HM Treasury and told to immediately reimburse all current account confidence tricked customers they have declined in the past 10 years?

    That would be no joke.
    • meer53
    • By meer53 6th Aug 18, 9:10 PM
    • 9,247 Posts
    • 13,423 Thanks
    meer53
    Just coming in at a tangent here; The above post seems quite revealing. If a bank worker claims to know better than to purchase certain things from a bank, then that might indicate those products to be poor value. Of course, it could just be that @meer53's circumstances meant the products weren't good value for them at that time.

    Once again I am inferring a meaning into what has been written - if I am wrong please say so.
    Originally posted by Terry Towelling
    I've never bought insurance from a bank as i've always managed to get a better deal elsewhere. My colleagues have bought though, horses for courses as they say !
    • JuicyJesus
    • By JuicyJesus 6th Aug 18, 9:59 PM
    • 3,175 Posts
    • 3,403 Thanks
    JuicyJesus
    Might that be the room where all the major bank CEOs are hauled in before FCA and PRA under auspices of HM Treasury and told to immediately reimburse all current account confidence tricked customers they have declined in the past 10 years?

    That would be no joke.
    Originally posted by peterbaker
    It's also a weird, pointless revenge fantasy posited by someone who increasingly appears to be detached from the real world.
    urs sinserly,
    ~~joosy jeezus~~
    • peterbaker
    • By peterbaker 6th Aug 18, 10:45 PM
    • 2,068 Posts
    • 818 Thanks
    peterbaker
    It's also a weird, pointless revenge fantasy posited by someone who increasingly appears to be detached from the real world.
    Get used to it. I've always found your world narrow and bank loving. So if my world swamps yours occasionally then don't be surprised

    I'm here shining a light on just one or two aspects of bad risk management and bad practice in banks that have persisted far too many years, and 4,300 thread views in just a week easily vies in reader interest terms with your best ever started thread from 2015 which funnily enough includes your favorite word "pointless" in its title - perhaps it's a Freudian tendency - might it best describe your contribution to this thread?
    Last edited by peterbaker; 06-08-2018 at 10:51 PM.
    • Zanderman
    • By Zanderman 6th Aug 18, 11:02 PM
    • 1,763 Posts
    • 4,397 Thanks
    Zanderman
    ......... 4,300 thread views in just a week easily vies in reader interest terms with ..........
    Originally posted by peterbaker
    You don't think that might be just curiosity? To see what on earth a thread entitled "Don't be fooled by cunning con artists" is about?

    Only to be disappointed when they find it's just a load of people arguing over issues they have no control over, may not even understand despite claiming they do, and won't ever influence anyway. Plus, if the reader gets beyond the first page, it becomes increasingly impenetrable?

    Or do you think those views are really people devouring every word? I suspect they aren't.

    I, for one, just look every now and then to marvel that it's still ongoing. I don't actually read it...
    • JuicyJesus
    • By JuicyJesus 6th Aug 18, 11:09 PM
    • 3,175 Posts
    • 3,403 Thanks
    JuicyJesus
    Get used to it. I've always found your world narrow and bank loving. So if my world swamps yours occasionally then don't be surprised

    I'm here shining a light on just one or two aspects of bad risk management and bad practice in banks that have persisted far too many years, and 4,300 thread views in just a week easily vies in reader interest terms with your best ever started thread from 2015 which funnily enough includes your favorite word "pointless" in its title - perhaps it's a Freudian tendency - might it best describe your contribution to this thread?
    Originally posted by peterbaker
    It's not the size of the view count, it's what you do with it. And what you've done with it is spouted the same weirdo oddness everyone who refuses to move with the times and fetishises the old Captain Mainwaring style of banking does.

    One could also argue you're compensating for something.
    urs sinserly,
    ~~joosy jeezus~~
    • peterbaker
    • By peterbaker 7th Aug 18, 8:23 AM
    • 2,068 Posts
    • 818 Thanks
    peterbaker
    It's not the size of the view count, it's what you do with it. And what you've done with it is spouted the same weirdo oddness everyone who refuses to move with the times and fetishises the old Captain Mainwaring style of banking does.

    One could also argue you're compensating for something.
    Originally posted by JuicyJesus
    Definitely Freudian - one might hope that you do not work in a customer facing role at a bank, as I can see that being a power trip for some troubled minds.
    • schiff
    • By schiff 7th Aug 18, 8:38 AM
    • 18,093 Posts
    • 9,533 Thanks
    schiff
    I followed this thread from its outset and I have the time. I am on instant notification for posts on threads I've contributed to and I've not been able to resist looking each time I get the message. Formed an opinion early on. Yesterday I switched to once a day for this thread and I'm up to date now, but that's it, I'm going to switch out of it altogether.

    Nothing has changed my mind, it's a rant. A rant that some have responded to at length, presumably as they enjoy the jousting, but it just prolongs it and it changes nothing. If it mattered I would be worried about the OP.
    • peterbaker
    • By peterbaker 7th Aug 18, 10:23 AM
    • 2,068 Posts
    • 818 Thanks
    peterbaker
    If it mattered I would be worried about the OP.
    Originally posted by schiff
    Don't worry about me, schiff, I've broad shoulders and I am lucky enough to have a satisfying and fulfilled good life.

    You have read why I started this thread. I strongly believe that it is very wrong of banks to walk away from the car crashes that their digital businesses make more likely.

    They know that most people do not understand the risk. I do more than most. I have a skillset which means I can comment on the problem from very many angles. Yeah no-one likes a smarta$$, but I am not asking to be liked. I have seen the effects of impersonation and account takeover fraud close up many times. My purpose here is to keep the message in public view.

    Every time someone knocks the message or the messenger and I notice, I will do my best to correct it. It is not a question of needing to respect others contrary opinions. It is a question of highlighting a known risk because it is not known well enough.

    You do not know whether if it happened to you sometime later in life or at a point where you were plain vulnerable whether you would get your money back. Your guard only has to be down for a few seconds to lose your life savings.

    For your bank then to argue it is your own silly fault is plain wrong.

    For so many naysayers to pile in and others to slavishly apply their thanks to every nay-saying or ridiculing post which effectively calls me and/or fraud victims idiots is a very sad reflection upon UK society. I sometimes think that coming into this sub-forum is a bit like entering the realm of a Darwinian Cult where the adage "survival of the fittest" is worshipped.

    And for others to suggest that I suffer some delusion or mental problem for simply giving my time to keep the original message in view - well I think it might be time to take a look in their mirror.

    Microsoft Tech Support Scam activity and similar confidence tricks are clearly growing in sophistication and frequency. The tendency to argue otherwise and that there is no risk to non-idiots is akin to poo-pooing the current unusual heatwaves as nothing for sane people to worry about, and is I suppose more likely to be borne out of the ignorance of sheep than any malice aforethought.

    Yes I get that people don't like being referred to as sheep. The answer is not to behave like it. I don't. As I said I have a good life and I still for some of it manage to help others quite frequently by guiding not following. Trouble is, that's what confidence tricksters also manage to do in much slicker fashion than me. You can spot one of my threads a mile off, but the work of a confidence trickster upon a receptive mind is far less easy to recognise instantly, and can ultimately spoil a good life in minutes without the subject of moving your money ever being discussed beyond "we can see you have been hacked - they may have hacked your bank account - have you checked it?".

    It should not be possible for fraudsters to ride in via such an easy route i.e. by exploiting the ease of digital access to banking, and its skyscraper-ish very narrowly founded security protocols, and worse, the blinkered reliance by banks and others on totally compromised personal data in their systems (e.g. the combination of email addresses and mobile telephone numbers, full names and addresses, and all manner of other confidential personal data already known to be lost to the wild including as part of lost government data and CRA data obtained both semi-legally and illegally, and data harvested from social media, and dismissed ignorantly as low risk) are together in fact the catalysts for planning and executing major fraud against personal eBanking customers.

    Every time I get asked on the phone ("for security") for my name address postcode, date of birth, mothers maiden name, email address, even NI number, I know it is all compromised, and not by me, but by corporates and even by the negligence of government.

    When a company like Cambridge Analytica folds, where does the data they've been playing with go? Where did the nukes go when USSR broke up?

    You can bet your life if the data CA collected was processed for no good reason when the company was live, that it is highly unlikely to have been turned into any force for good now.

    Once upon a time, it may have taken ten minutes to download 1.44MB to a floppy disk and take it away from a PC. The entire Holy Bible in plain text uses only 4MB, barely more than an average MP3 audio track. Your average PC at the time may have cost several hundred pounds and of course wasn't exactly pocket-sized.

    My iPhone has 132GB of storage capacity (or the equivalent of 33,000 copies of the Bible if you like). It cost 230. It has a slap up to date operating system. All the data in it and transferred from it is transferred at enormous speed wirelessly. It even updates itself, and so do the countless Apps on it, at a time of night it chooses, all without my explicit consent. I could cross any international borders with enormous databases of stolen personal data in my phone.

    2018 digital technology is mind-blowing. Confidence tricksters are also into mind-blowing and into technology - it's their calling and their living.

    So an alternate thread message might be, don't be a sheep when it comes to forming your views about eBanking, and don't let anyone, least of all me, and more importantly the confidence trickster sitting in a call centre in Calcutta or just up the road from you deciding who to call today, keep thinking you might still be there for the taking.
    Last edited by peterbaker; 07-08-2018 at 11:04 AM.
    • JuicyJesus
    • By JuicyJesus 7th Aug 18, 11:48 AM
    • 3,175 Posts
    • 3,403 Thanks
    JuicyJesus
    Nurse! He's out of bed again!
    urs sinserly,
    ~~joosy jeezus~~
    • Westie983
    • By Westie983 7th Aug 18, 3:16 PM
    • 4,496 Posts
    • 15,046 Thanks
    Westie983
    Closing the thread to new comments, after reviewing the thread and advice from other forum users.

    Westie983
    Last edited by Westie983; 07-08-2018 at 3:18 PM.
    Save 12k in 2018 #10 Total (25,000)+13,000/12,000 = 108.33%
    Sealed Pot Challenge ~ 11 #97 Total (410) + 40/500 = 8.00% ( x 11)
    Xmas 2018 1 a Day #2 Total 62.59/365 = 17.14%
    Virtual Sealed Pot #1 Total 1200/1000 = 120.00%
    2 Savers Club 2018 #16 Total (1500)+-470/2000 = 51.50%

    Total 15,332.59/15,865 = 96.64%

    I'm a Board Guide on Budgeting & Bank Accounts, Debt-Free Wannabe, Disability Money Matters, and Savings & Investments. I'm a volunteer helping the boards run smoothly, but I'm not a moderator, and do not read all posts. If you see an inappropriate/illegal post then email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 7th Aug 18, 3:17 PM
    • 357 Posts
    • 254 Thanks
    Terry Towelling
    Well, clearly Peter baker has a point here but everything descended into confrontation instead of cooperation as it unfolded. It would be wonderful if we could come up with a solution to the cons that go on but it is unlikely we, on this forum, are going to. The cons don't just affect stupid people and it does nobody any good to sit back and say that fools and their money are soon parted but 'I'm alright, Jack (keep your hands off my stack)'

    If it were possible to stop the tricksters from accessing the 'vulnerable/gullible' and not-so-vulnerable/gullible in the first place that might be a start, but that needs the cooperation of several industries (e.g. banking, tech, telecoms).

    Do we not all agree that publicising the issues is a good start and maybe the founder of this very website, who has the ear of many people (ordinary and in positions of 'power') might want to run with it or push the issue on his TV shows? He may have already done so but I don't get to watch stuff that often these days.

    Certainly it would have to be handled carefully with solutions as the focus rather than assigning blame.

    Any assenters out there? Anyone still reading? Anyone?
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