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  • FIRST POST
    • Melv1982
    • By Melv1982 27th Jul 18, 10:32 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Melv1982
    PCN letter received after 58 days!
    • #1
    • 27th Jul 18, 10:32 PM
    PCN letter received after 58 days! 27th Jul 18 at 10:32 PM
    Hello, I've read as much info from these forums as possible, but I'm a little bit stuck on what I should do next!
    On the 31st of may the driver was parked on lusty glaze beach car park in Newquay,they paid the parking fee and put the ticket on the dash.
    Upon returning to the car they found a ticket stuck to the wing mirror. The ticket said the parking ticket was upside down ( which it was ). they quickly got out of the car, found the parking warden and tried to show him the valid parking ticket.. needless to say he wasn't interested!
    they didn't pay the ticket, and now today a letter has arrived from the parking company (Armtrac) demanding payment of 100
    What should I do now?
    Last edited by Melv1982; 08-08-2018 at 12:48 PM.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 27th Jul 18, 10:39 PM
    • 38,918 Posts
    • 87,070 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 27th Jul 18, 10:39 PM
    • #2
    • 27th Jul 18, 10:39 PM
    First, edit your post to remove information about who parked. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper, who are two different people.

    Then, and only then, read the Sticky thread for NEWBIES and send the template appeal you will find there. Carefully add a one liner that since the NTK is too late to meet keeper liability, they should either cancel or pursue only the driver, who will not be named.


    Today is day 57 by the way, not 58, not that it matters as it must be received by day 56 to transfer keeper liability.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 27-07-2018 at 10:41 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Jul 18, 11:02 PM
    • 67,245 Posts
    • 79,508 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 27th Jul 18, 11:02 PM
    • #3
    • 27th Jul 18, 11:02 PM
    Same timeline as this one:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5874060

    But yours is an IPC firm, so after appealing as per the NEWBIES thread, there is no POPLA nor second appeal worth trying.

    Sit tight and come back at court claim stage, as ever.

    This is already covered in the NEWBIES thread and there is never a need for any threads about IPC firms (before court claim stage) because they are all the same.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 28-07-2018 at 7:01 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 28th Jul 18, 8:40 AM
    • 38,918 Posts
    • 87,070 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 28th Jul 18, 8:40 AM
    • #4
    • 28th Jul 18, 8:40 AM
    You still need to edit your post before you do anything else!

    Parking scammers read these fora and have been known to use information from here against a poster.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 19-01-2019 at 3:38 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Melv1982
    • By Melv1982 8th Aug 18, 10:09 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Melv1982
    • #5
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:09 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:09 AM
    I've tried several times to edit but it simply won't let me
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Aug 18, 10:12 AM
    • 38,200 Posts
    • 22,219 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #6
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:12 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:12 AM
    Do it on s laptop or PC
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 8th Aug 18, 10:19 AM
    • 38,918 Posts
    • 87,070 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #7
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:19 AM
    • #7
    • 8th Aug 18, 10:19 AM
    I've tried several times to edit but it simply won't let me
    Originally posted by Melv1982
    There should be an button at the bottom of your post. If it doesn't work, then contact a Board Guide by private message and ask them to edit it.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 10-12-2018 at 9:55 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Melv1982
    • By Melv1982 4th Dec 18, 2:11 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Melv1982
    • #8
    • 4th Dec 18, 2:11 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Dec 18, 2:11 PM
    Hello guys, I did everything I was told! sent the template letter telling them they were outside the time frame, but they are still after my money! I've now had a solicitor's letter asking for 160, what do I do at this point?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Dec 18, 2:33 PM
    • 67,245 Posts
    • 79,508 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 18, 2:33 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 18, 2:33 PM
    You read the NEWBIES thread post #2 about solicitor LBC stage...
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Melv1982
    • By Melv1982 10th Dec 18, 9:32 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Melv1982
    Sorry to be a Pain.. but I've already written to the parking company, telling them that they were outside of the time limit for me to tell them who was driving
    Do I just reiterate this with the solicitor?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 10th Dec 18, 9:58 AM
    • 38,918 Posts
    • 87,070 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    If it's a LBA/LBC, then follow the advice already given to read post 2 of the NEWBIES. This gives a step by step guide to court from LBC to the courtroom itself.

    Check however that it is a LBC as it may be a debt collector letter on solicitor's notepaper.

    The clue will be in the creditor (who it asks you to pay); PPC or debt crawler.

    If in doubt, treat it as a LBC.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 19-01-2019 at 3:39 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Pirate Parker
    • By Pirate Parker 10th Dec 18, 12:47 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Pirate Parker
    I really hate companies that harass people.... here's how I would respond. Obviously if I've misinterpreted your situation make those amendments but otherwise, you should be good.
    ------------------------------------------------------
    FINAL WARNING

    In a previous letter I stated that I was not the driver and that pursuant to Schedule 4 Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Paragraph 8(5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.

    YOU HAVE FAILED TO PROVIDE A NOTICE TO KEEPER IN THE CORRECT TIME THEREFORE NO KEEPER LIABILITY EXISTS.

    Additionally, you and/or your agents have artificially increased the costs contrary to Schedule 4 Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Paragraph 4(5) The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper under paragraph 8(2)(c) or (d) or, as the case may be, 9(2)(d) (less any payments towards the unpaid parking charges which are received after the time so specified).

    Continued pursuit of this matter may attract a claim in it's own right or be used to counter claim any claim made against me using the following legislation;

    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012
    To prove no keeper liability and artificially increasing the amount.

    Protection from Harassment Act 1997
    Section 1(a) and Section 1(b) as you knew or ought to have known your actions would amount to harassment.

    Malicious Communications Act 1988
    Section 1(a)(iii) sending of a letter with information which is false or known or believed to be false by the sender.

    Data Protection Act 2018
    General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR)

    You are a data controller unlawfully using my information, you have breached my data protection by giving it to third party company(s) causing offences to be committed against my person and my data to be unlawfully processed without my consent by data processors acting on your instruction which YOU BEAR LIABILITY for.
    Never admit to being the driver, POFA 2012 Schedule 4 is your best friend, always fight as registered keeper. Disprove keeper liability and you may be able to claim/counterclaim for data protection breach(s) and harassment. Don't just fight back, FIGHT BACK.
    • Melv1982
    • By Melv1982 21st Dec 18, 12:15 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Melv1982
    Thank you for all your help guys, I'm now being chased by a company called BW legal. They have somehow got my email address and phone number and keep asking me to contact them. What should I do?
    • Melv1982
    • By Melv1982 19th Jan 19, 3:34 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Melv1982
    Hello, thank you for all the help regarding this matter, but these guys are just not going away.
    In response to the reply which I forwarded from the post above BW legal responded with -
    "As the registered keeper of the vehicle, and given that you had not provided our client with the full name and serviceable address of the driver within 28 days from the date of the parking charge notice, our client is able to hold you liable for the unpaid parking charge charge on the reapoable presumption that the driver of the vehicle had either actual or ostensible authority to enter into a contract with our client in relation to parking on your behalf. This is supported by the case combined parking solutions Vs ajh films ltd.
    Without prejudice to the above we would be grateful if you would furnish us with the details, including the full name and address of the alleged driver of the vehicle on the contravention date."
    It does say a lot more, but that seems the most relevant part.

    What should I do?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 19th Jan 19, 3:45 PM
    • 38,918 Posts
    • 87,070 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    They are telling porky pies. CPS vs AJH Films is irrelevant and gets rubbished in court by every judge that sees it.

    The keeper cannot be held liable because the NTK was too late, and the PoFA says this.

    They are fishing for the driver's details as that is the only person they can take to court.

    Either ignore this letter, or read CPS vs AJH and then rebut it when you find out what that case was actually about telling them to contact the driver as they are the only person liable. You do not of course help them in any way with the driver's identity.

    Complain to the SRA that they are telling lies.

    Complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 19th Jan 19, 3:47 PM
    • 3,943 Posts
    • 3,050 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Do not say who was driving, there is no need to do so. That old case of AJH Films was thrown out of court. Use the search facility in Advanced mode with AJH Films as your search term and select POSTS not THREADS. Also read the NEWBIE section again and read up on POFA to see why you should not divulge the driver's name.
    • Melv1982
    • By Melv1982 19th Jan 19, 5:07 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Melv1982
    Thanks for the fantastic help with this guys. Should I just let them take me to court, would the county court listen to such evidence or does only deal with the debt?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Jan 19, 5:10 PM
    • 67,245 Posts
    • 79,508 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It deals with the facts, and of course a keeper can't be assumed to be the driver.

    There is no debt or fine. Of course you have a case. We win 99% of the time!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Melv1982
    • By Melv1982 19th Jan 19, 6:56 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Melv1982
    They were phoning me every day at one point. I just kept ending the call when they started asking questions. Then a few days ago I got cheesed off and told them to stop harassing me and respond to my letter in writing. They really are pondlife!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Jan 19, 7:37 PM
    • 67,245 Posts
    • 79,508 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You are entitled to tell them to stop phoning or texting. Happens all the time here!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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