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    • Castlebay
    • By Castlebay 16th Jul 18, 5:28 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Castlebay
    PCN at Railway station
    • #1
    • 16th Jul 18, 5:28 PM
    PCN at Railway station 16th Jul 18 at 5:28 PM
    I would be grateful for some advice about a PCN issued by NCP at a railway car park two weeks ago. I have read the newbies sticky and tried to digest it all. The PCN was issued for being 'parked in a restricted area in a car park'. Time between first seen and PCN issue was 2 mins. The signage is poor and confusing - the spaces are marked 'seasonal' and inadequate signage so the PCN will be appealed. I've seen the template but my questions are as it's a railway car park, I understand BPA have removed the requirement for PPCs to issue a POPLA code. So should the appeal include lots of detail at this stage? Have NCP stopped issuing POPLA codes in these situations? The wording on the back on the PCN clearly states if NCP reject appeal then they will give contact details of the independent appeals adjudication service. So if they don't do this, presumably they are in breach of their own terms and conditions?

    I realise there's lots of advice about not worrying about NCP but the keeper would find it difficult receiving letters from debt collectors if that follows. Thank you for any advice.
Page 1
    • waamo
    • By waamo 16th Jul 18, 5:34 PM
    • 3,895 Posts
    • 5,076 Thanks
    waamo
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 18, 5:34 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 18, 5:34 PM
    Use the template appeal in post 1 of the Newbies thread.

    NCP will usually issue a POPLA code even though it's railway land. It's happy days though whether they do or don't. No keeper liability will win at POPLA and byelaws are a dream.
    This space for hire.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jul 18, 5:36 PM
    • 60,111 Posts
    • 73,239 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 18, 5:36 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 18, 5:36 PM
    I understand BPA have removed the requirement for PPCs to issue a POPLA code.
    Only for cases where the PCN is called a 'penalty' (NOT NCP's style).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Castlebay
    • By Castlebay 16th Jul 18, 5:48 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Castlebay
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 18, 5:48 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 18, 5:48 PM
    Thank you - will use the template - should anything be added about the reason for appeal?
    • Castlebay
    • By Castlebay 16th Jul 18, 5:52 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Castlebay
    • #5
    • 16th Jul 18, 5:52 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Jul 18, 5:52 PM
    Thank you.I hadn't picked that up. The only thing I could find on BPA was a press release which just referred to PCNs so assumed it was either. This was what I'd seen on the POPLA website
    'Therefore, the British Parking Association took the decision to remove the requirement for parking operators to signpost motorists to POPLA for parking charges or penalty charges issued under byelaws from 18
    September 2017.'
    Thanks for your help. Will send off the template letter after three weeks or so.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Jul 18, 5:52 PM
    • 18,843 Posts
    • 23,841 Thanks
    Redx
    • #6
    • 16th Jul 18, 5:52 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Jul 18, 5:52 PM
    no additions, because if railway bylaws apply then its a different scenario


    in any case, the time to win is at popla, if a code is provided


    for railway station cases, the less said the better, if you dont know why, read more ongoing and concluded railway station cases
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 16th Jul 18, 5:56 PM
    • 1,651 Posts
    • 2,147 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    • #7
    • 16th Jul 18, 5:56 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Jul 18, 5:56 PM
    Thank you.I hadn't picked that up. The only thing I could find on BPA was a press release which just referred to PCNs so assumed it was either. This was what I'd seen on the POPLA website
    'Therefore, the British Parking Association took the decision to remove the requirement for parking operators to signpost motorists to POPLA for parking charges or penalty charges issued under byelaws from 18
    September 2017.'
    Thanks for your help. Will send off the template letter after three weeks or so.
    Originally posted by Castlebay
    interesting , perhaps someone should inform popla of the bpa s intention

    (parking charge - railway)
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Castlebay
    • By Castlebay 16th Jul 18, 7:01 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Castlebay
    • #8
    • 16th Jul 18, 7:01 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Jul 18, 7:01 PM
    no additions, because if railway bylaws apply then its a different scenario


    in any case, the time to win is at popla, if a code is provided


    for railway station cases, the less said the better, if you dont know why, read more ongoing and concluded railway station cases
    Originally posted by Redx
    Thanks - I've read up on some of the railway ones but definitely need to read up some more
    • Castlebay
    • By Castlebay 8th Aug 18, 8:35 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Castlebay
    • #9
    • 8th Aug 18, 8:35 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Aug 18, 8:35 PM
    The initial appeal was submitted and has now been rejected after 'careful consideration'. The rejection letter states '... to date you not have (!) provided a serviceable address for the driver of the vehicle, therefore if this is not provided you, as the registered keeper of the vehicle, are liable for the Parking Charge Notice.' Also a few lines about the Beavis case being dismissed and that the charge should be an effective deterrent etc.

    A popla code has been provided so I will start drafting appeal using examples from the site. The pcn was issued at Norwich Railway Station (forecourt) so I'm assuming this is means it's not covered by POFA, which isn't mentioned anywhere in the rejection letter. Signs up have both NCP and Greater Anglia on them. Is there any way to double check who owns the land? All I've found is 'who owns england' website which has various maps on and seems that the car park area is marked as owned by Network Rail. So I'll proceed on basis that it is but will post drafts etc here for expert advice and input but take the throw the kitchen sink at it approach anyway.

    Are ncp likely to issue NTK? I'll wait to after day 56 from date of pcn to submit appeal to popla to see if NTK arrives in the meantime.

    The pcn was handed to the driver who returned to the car just after the attendant had issued it and had a conversation about it. Any implications from this at all?

    Does this all sound ok so far? Many thanks for your help
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Aug 18, 8:40 PM
    • 18,843 Posts
    • 23,841 Thanks
    Redx
    NCP may well fail to issue an NTK, plus if Network Rail own the land then POFA2012 doesnt apply and a keeper isnt liable

    so yes , kitchen sink time

    NCP have a habit of failing to issue an NTK as they assume the apellant is the driver, which works to your advantage with a keeper appeal to popla

    assume it is railway land and make sure they are out to strict proof of this aspect, plus ownership, landowner authority, signage , BPA CoP failures etc, anything and everything

    look at other NCP railway land popla appeals , and INDIGO ones too, to find a suitable copy and paste , then adapt it after proof reading it

    most of the work is already done for you, if you look hard enough , lol , because you are already on the right track
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Castlebay
    • By Castlebay 8th Aug 18, 9:13 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Castlebay
    NCP may well fail to issue an NTK, plus if Network Rail own the land then POFA2012 doesnt apply and a keeper isnt liable

    so yes , kitchen sink time

    NCP have a habit of failing to issue an NTK as they assume the apellant is the driver, which works to your advantage with a keeper appeal to popla

    assume it is railway land and make sure they are out to strict proof of this aspect, plus ownership, landowner authority, signage , BPA CoP failures etc, anything and everything

    look at other NCP railway land popla appeals , and INDIGO ones too, to find a suitable copy and paste , then adapt it after proof reading it

    most of the work is already done for you, if you look hard enough , lol , because you are already on the right track
    Originally posted by Redx
    Thank you Redx for your reply - that's really helpful. I'm not that used to forums so taking a while to find my way around and search in the best way but getting there now. As you say, lots out there already for me to adapt for mine. Will get drafting!
    • Thorsson
    • By Thorsson 8th Aug 18, 10:41 PM
    • 146 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    Thorsson
    The land will be owned by Network Rail but leased to Abellio East Anglia Limited (Trading name Greater Anglia). NCP will be a contractor to GA.
    • Castlebay
    • By Castlebay 9th Aug 18, 7:10 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Castlebay
    The land will be owned by Network Rail but leased to Abellio East Anglia Limited (Trading name Greater Anglia). NCP will be a contractor to GA.
    Originally posted by Thorsson
    Thank you very much - that's great. I'll post a draft when I've pulled it all together.
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