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  • FIRST POST
    • Advent123
    • By Advent123 16th Jul 18, 3:25 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Advent123
    Defence Systems (Park Watch) PCN
    • #1
    • 16th Jul 18, 3:25 PM
    Defence Systems (Park Watch) PCN 16th Jul 18 at 3:25 PM
    Hi all,
    I have received a PCN from Park Watch for 'Entered a No access area' at the One Stop shopping Centre in Birmingham. I have appealed using a template from the Newbies section and have now received a rejection notice and a POPLA code.


    I have checked the newbies section and it mostly covers parking issues and although Park Watch are quoting 'parking charges' this clearly isn't a parking offense as I never parked. I cannot find much information pertinent to issues other than parking offences. I also believe the DVLA should not have disclosed my details as it isn't a parking offence.


    Any advise on how to appeal with POPLA would be appreciated in this instance.


    Many thanks.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th Jul 18, 3:41 PM
    • 37,539 Posts
    • 84,467 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 18, 3:41 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 18, 3:41 PM
    Use all the template points available to you from post 3 of the NEWBIES. Get pics of the entrance and signage to back up these points.

    Add that since the vehicle did not stop, there was no parking event and the scammers had no right to get keeper details from the DVLA.

    Complain to the BPA and DVLA about the latter. Also make an ICO complaint that your data has been obtained without reason.

    Also complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 19-07-2018 at 10:53 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jul 18, 11:36 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,649 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 18, 11:36 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 18, 11:36 PM
    Search for ParkWatch POPLA and read a dozen or so, and crib from them.
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 17th Jul 18, 7:58 AM
    • 3,990 Posts
    • 4,728 Thanks
    Johno100
    • #4
    • 17th Jul 18, 7:58 AM
    • #4
    • 17th Jul 18, 7:58 AM
    I know the area well. As has already been said this is not a parking event so the parking company has no right to obtain your details from the DVLA.

    There is also some confusion the status of that bus exchange. I've personally seen proper council wardens ticketing individuals by the Wetherspoons pub (The Arthur Robinson) formerly Argos.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 17th Jul 18, 8:58 AM
    • 10,238 Posts
    • 10,129 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #5
    • 17th Jul 18, 8:58 AM
    • #5
    • 17th Jul 18, 8:58 AM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Advent123
    • By Advent123 19th Jul 18, 10:37 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Advent123
    • #6
    • 19th Jul 18, 10:37 AM
    • #6
    • 19th Jul 18, 10:37 AM
    Can someone please advise if my appeal should be the usual....signage.....land ownership etc or could I just base it on the fact that the driver never stopped and didn't park. POFA is only concerned with parking?


    The original letter is below:
    [IMG]hxxp://i64.tinypic.com/2njaeqs.jpg[/IMG]


    Is this the NTK?
    Last edited by Advent123; 19-07-2018 at 11:30 AM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 19th Jul 18, 10:42 AM
    • 37,539 Posts
    • 84,467 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #7
    • 19th Jul 18, 10:42 AM
    • #7
    • 19th Jul 18, 10:42 AM
    Can someone please advise if my appeal should be the usual....signage.....land ownership etc or could I just base it on the fact that THE DRIVER never stopped and didn't park. POFA is only concerned with parking?


    The original letter is below:
    [IMG]hxxp://i64.tinypic.com/2njaeqs.jpg[/IMG]


    Is this the NTK?
    Originally posted by Advent123
    Already answered in post 2 of this thread.

    http://i64.tinypic.com/2njaeqs.jpg

    Yes it's the NTK, and very helpfully shows the vehicle was moving and therefore proves this was a non-parking event. Complain as I already advised you as well as making your PoPLA appeal as already advised.
    The wording on that NTK is non-POFA compliant as well.

    Edit your post above first to remove information about who was driving.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 19-07-2018 at 10:53 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 19th Jul 18, 11:16 AM
    • 19,676 Posts
    • 31,148 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #8
    • 19th Jul 18, 11:16 AM
    • #8
    • 19th Jul 18, 11:16 AM
    Have you got your own photos of the signage?

    If the detail can't be read from a moving vehicle then how can it form a contract with the driver?

    Where is the signage in relation to where the vehicle is photographed?

    This can't be much else than a penalty masquerading as a contractual charge. At best this is a case of trespass, which only the landowner can further.

    All points for melding into your POPLA appeal.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Advent123
    • By Advent123 20th Jul 18, 11:06 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Advent123
    • #9
    • 20th Jul 18, 11:06 AM
    • #9
    • 20th Jul 18, 11:06 AM
    Hi all, my POPLA appeal is below.


    Any comments much appreciated.


    Many thanks.


    [IMG]hxxp://i68.tinypic.com/muv4ti.jpg[/IMG]
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 20th Jul 18, 11:15 AM
    • 37,539 Posts
    • 84,467 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Hi all, my POPLA appeal is below.


    Any comments much appreciated.


    Many thanks.


    [IMG]hxxp://i68.tinypic.com/muv4ti.jpg[/IMG]
    Originally posted by Advent123
    http://i68.tinypic.com/muv4ti.jpg

    That's too pale and blurred for me to read.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Advent123
    • By Advent123 20th Jul 18, 11:49 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Advent123
    Hope this works...
    [IMG]hxxps://drive.google.com/file/d/1SbRWg0yNonrnF9fdcxxu0T7uTO3XnrQ6/view?usp=sharing[/IMG]
    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 20th Jul 18, 12:45 PM
    • 3,429 Posts
    • 5,031 Thanks
    The Slithy Tove
    Can someone please advise if my appeal should be the usual....signage.....land ownership etc or could I just base it on the fact that the driver never stopped and didn't park. POFA is only concerned with parking?
    Originally posted by Advent123
    POFA (or lack of it) merely means they can't pin this on the keeper. This is why you must not admit at any point who the driver was. They can only go after the driver, and if they don't know who it was ...

    So, as well as no keeper liability, you go on the usual signage (as stated, impossible to read, forbidding, etc.) and so on.

    But start off with the standard pro-forma appeal from the NEWBIES thread.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 20th Jul 18, 2:26 PM
    • 3,285 Posts
    • 2,229 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Here is your link, checked and made live. I can read this one.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Jul 18, 3:29 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,649 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Remove #4 which is repeated by the better template you used in #6.
    • Advent123
    • By Advent123 6th Aug 18, 12:02 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Advent123
    I've just recieved a reply to my evidence from Parkwatch. I dont think I need to respond to this unless anyone thinks otherwise. It clearly shows that the signage is innadequate to be read whilst driving around a roundabout. It still is discussing a parking fine, when I never parked. Point 5 of the customer Licence Agreement states....a parking charge may only be issued to a vehicle which parks in contravention......etc. It also doesnt detail the period of which I was parked as per POFA guidelines as I didnt park. What are these companies going to do next.......put a ticket on your car for driving slowly round a roundabout !!
    Link below.

    hxxps://drive.google.com/file/d/1ydc_ckKxhMY2XTs0CrjRPm6RwtFH7wwW/view?usp=sharing
    Last edited by Advent123; 06-08-2018 at 12:09 PM.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Aug 18, 12:13 PM
    • 10,238 Posts
    • 10,129 Thanks
    The Deep
    If they took this to court they might struggle, but on the bright side, you might be able to claim punitive damages for unreasonable behaviour and/or counter claim for a DPA breach. Every cloud ...
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 6th Aug 18, 12:58 PM
    • 4,412 Posts
    • 5,799 Thanks
    waamo
    Personally I would point out the obvious to POPLA. Some of their assessors aren't the brightest.
    This space for hire.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 6th Aug 18, 1:02 PM
    • 3,611 Posts
    • 4,479 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Same. Anything you DONT disagree with, POPLa assumes you AGREE with.

    So point out

    1) they have no authority to issue charges for people htat havenyt parked, see...
    2) The signage cannot be read
    3) they cannot commence a contratc without adequate notice, those signs cannot be read while driving
    • Advent123
    • By Advent123 13th Sep 18, 8:37 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Advent123
    POPLA Decision
    Hi all,

    its taken some time but I've eventually had a decision from POPLA. Not good news as they have declined the appeal.

    The letter is attached.

    hxxps://docs.google.com/document/d/1HaYcmxcol7CKjG-A4p4DN2-B7cLs1E-jW8vppmwjqcA/edit?usp=sharing

    Any ideas what to do next or do I give in and pay the fine??
    • waamo
    • By waamo 13th Sep 18, 8:44 AM
    • 4,412 Posts
    • 5,799 Thanks
    waamo
    The actual odds of them going to court look pretty low http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/Defence_Systems.html

    Personally I would tough out the debt collectors letters and see if they do put a claim in.
    This space for hire.
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