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  • FIRST POST
    • Snowy_da_cat
    • By Snowy_da_cat 13th Jul 18, 8:25 AM
    • 6Posts
    • 21Thanks
    Snowy_da_cat
    No fault eviction due to failed EPC
    • #1
    • 13th Jul 18, 8:25 AM
    No fault eviction due to failed EPC 13th Jul 18 at 8:25 AM
    This is more a word of warning to long term tenants than asking for advice.
    We have lived in the same privately rented accommodation for nearly 18 years with few issues with the landlord other than his slow reaction to any repairs that needed doing. We have never been in arrears in our rent and are considered 'very good' tenants by the letting agency.
    With the change in government regulations the property was given an 'F' on the EPC certificate and the landlord told he needs to make improvements by April 2020.
    This has resulted in us being told we need to leave the property for work to be carried out, and the tenancy will be ended. We have been told he intends to completely modernise the property in the hope of receiving more return on the rent.
    On the one hand we have until March 2020 to leave (as our landlord is in no rush to do the work), however, we have also been told that if we wanted to return we would have to go through the normal channels and there is no guarantee we would be successful in our application.
    Obviously, after paying a deposit and searches etc on a property to live in while the work was done, it is unlikely we would want to go through all the effort and cost of moving back again, possibly a year later.
    When the EPC came through we were under the illusion that we would be the ones to benefit from the improvements.
    Be warned this is not always going to be the case!
    Snowy
Page 1
    • tom9980
    • By tom9980 13th Jul 18, 8:42 AM
    • 1,312 Posts
    • 3,889 Thanks
    tom9980
    • #2
    • 13th Jul 18, 8:42 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Jul 18, 8:42 AM
    The scary thing is EPC reports are often not very accurate. Assessors make lots of assumptions I bought a property that was said to have cavity wall insulation when it clearly had none, indeed I had it installed myself. The assumed cost of heating was also wide of the mark.

    The ideas behind the regulations are solid but if you can't even produce accurate reports it doesn't give you great confidence that things will improve significantly enough to justify the disruption caused to homeowners, landlords and tenants.
    In order to change, we must be sick and tired of being sick and tired.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 13th Jul 18, 8:44 AM
    • 26,123 Posts
    • 94,815 Thanks
    Davesnave
    • #3
    • 13th Jul 18, 8:44 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Jul 18, 8:44 AM
    When the EPC came through we were under the illusion that we would be the ones to benefit from the improvements.
    Be warned this is not always going to be the case!
    Snowy
    Originally posted by Snowy_da_cat

    I don't think the insistence in rental properties meeting a fairly low standard for energy efficiency was ever meant to provide personal benefit to anyone.


    Overall, people in rented accommodation should benefit, but not as much as they might, because a huge % of properties would fail if the bar were placed higher than it currently is, giving rise to greater problems of supply.
    I might be old, but I got to see a lot of good bands...
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 13th Jul 18, 8:53 AM
    • 1,075 Posts
    • 1,107 Thanks
    Margot123
    • #4
    • 13th Jul 18, 8:53 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Jul 18, 8:53 AM
    Agree, the assessors don't always get it right.

    A 150 year old rental property in our village was graded a 'G', and there were recommendations for cavity wall insulation (it doesn't have cavities), gas central heating boiler (there is no gas supply in the village), solar panels (it's a listed building so a 'no-no')........there was more.

    I think there is some appeal with older properties but not too sure where it's going......
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 13th Jul 18, 9:00 AM
    • 26,123 Posts
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    Davesnave
    • #5
    • 13th Jul 18, 9:00 AM
    • #5
    • 13th Jul 18, 9:00 AM
    OTOH, I have had 4 EPC s and all have been broadly accurate.



    I wouldn't expect them to be any better than roughly correct, given their low cost.
    I might be old, but I got to see a lot of good bands...
    • Snowy_da_cat
    • By Snowy_da_cat 13th Jul 18, 9:09 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Snowy_da_cat
    • #6
    • 13th Jul 18, 9:09 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Jul 18, 9:09 AM
    The EPC was entirely accurate! There is problems with the property that need addressing, however, they were mostly there when we moved in. The point of my post was to warn other long term tenants that the new rulings affects them when previously there was exemption. You may find yourself being evicted due to government rules, just be prepared!
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 13th Jul 18, 9:16 AM
    • 1,056 Posts
    • 1,297 Thanks
    ProDave
    • #7
    • 13th Jul 18, 9:16 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Jul 18, 9:16 AM
    Check the rules. I thought the EPC requirements only applied to a new let, so you may not have to comply as an existing tenant.

    This is definitely a case of unintended consequences. The other consequence is landlords may decide the cost of the upgrade work is too high and decide to stop letting it and sell it instead.

    Will this finally see buyers taking note of the EPC rating, and poorer properties actually being worth less than the same house but with a good EPC? I would not be comfortable now owning a property with a very poor EPC

    If I were buying a property now as a rental, I would not even consider anything with an EPC worse than C
    • WibblyGirly
    • By WibblyGirly 13th Jul 18, 9:24 AM
    • 415 Posts
    • 745 Thanks
    WibblyGirly
    • #8
    • 13th Jul 18, 9:24 AM
    • #8
    • 13th Jul 18, 9:24 AM
    My previous landlord wasn't happy with his new EPC ratings so he got a mate in to do them again. I think he was fiddling them, I tried to explain to him how cold the house was in winter (seals blown on windows and the front door letting massive drafts in) but he didn't believe me! I'm looking forward to this winter in a properly insulated house with decent windows!
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 13th Jul 18, 9:27 AM
    • 26,123 Posts
    • 94,815 Thanks
    Davesnave
    • #9
    • 13th Jul 18, 9:27 AM
    • #9
    • 13th Jul 18, 9:27 AM
    Check the rules. I thought the EPC requirements only applied to a new let, so you may not have to comply as an existing tenant.
    Originally posted by ProDave
    Details here, though I can't vouch for their accuracy:
    https://blog.openrent.co.uk/epc-rules-2018-time-running-out-for-landlords/


    OP appears to be right about time limit.
    I might be old, but I got to see a lot of good bands...
    • teneighty
    • By teneighty 13th Jul 18, 10:34 AM
    • 1,187 Posts
    • 851 Thanks
    teneighty
    The point of my post was to warn other long term tenants that the new rulings affects them when previously there was exemption. You may find yourself being evicted due to government rules, just be prepared!
    Originally posted by Snowy_da_cat
    Actually it is EU rules...EU Directive 2010/31/EU. The trouble is we implement these daft rules with bureaucratic fervour (along with all the others) whilst our friends on the continent have a much more relaxed attitude.
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 13th Jul 18, 2:33 PM
    • 1,075 Posts
    • 1,107 Thanks
    Margot123
    As far as I understood it, the new EPC ruling was to free up cheap housing stock for FTBs.
    A lot of landlords are selling up due to this and there is a glut of tired old terraced houses now appearing for sale.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 13th Jul 18, 3:18 PM
    • 4,856 Posts
    • 7,205 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    As far as I understood it, the new EPC ruling was to free up cheap housing stock for FTBs.
    A lot of landlords are selling up due to this and there is a glut of tired old terraced houses now appearing for sale.
    Originally posted by Margot123

    The same houses that were difficult to sell to first time buyers which is why the got sold to landlords in the first place. When you see adverts that say suitable for investors you know exactly what the house is going to be and where that you don't even need to view it. Usually difficult to sell due to double yellow lines outside and in a bad area.
    • SouthLondonUser
    • By SouthLondonUser 13th Jul 18, 5:28 PM
    • 544 Posts
    • 81 Thanks
    SouthLondonUser
    I have learnt that EPCs are, in 99% of the cases, totally useless. They give credit to whether energy-saving lightbulbs are fitted (how much does it cost to replace them? come on) and are very shallow on the actual insulation. I have seen totally different kinds of double glazing rated the same: old, unreliable sets of two windows which leave a gap and drought in the middle, and new modern fully insulating ones rated the same. I remember looking at the EPCs of properties I lived in in the past, and very warm properties were rated worse than properties I froze in.

    Useless. Utterly useless. A typical example of a potentially decent idea made useless by poor execution.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 13th Jul 18, 5:39 PM
    • 16,938 Posts
    • 41,811 Thanks
    FBaby
    It sounds that it is not so much the EPC and need for updating work but the fact that this triggered the LL to realise that he wasn't getting the best off his business.

    In the end, he is not getting rid of you, he is saying that he want to invest in his business for a higher return. He could have realise this without the EPC.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 13th Jul 18, 6:44 PM
    • 18,344 Posts
    • 16,583 Thanks
    AdrianC
    ...gas central heating boiler (there is no gas supply in the village)...
    Originally posted by Margot123
    Right, and?

    We have gas central heating, but there's no mains gas for miles.
    • 45002
    • By 45002 13th Jul 18, 6:45 PM
    • 436 Posts
    • 391 Thanks
    45002
    Private Landlords
    This is more a word of warning to long term tenants than asking for advice.
    We have lived in the same privately rented accommodation for nearly 18 years with few issues with the landlord other than his slow reaction to any repairs that needed doing. We have never been in arrears in our rent and are considered 'very good' tenants by the letting agency.
    With the change in government regulations the property was given an 'F' on the EPC certificate and the landlord told he needs to make improvements by April 2020.
    This has resulted in us being told we need to leave the property for work to be carried out, and the tenancy will be ended. We have been told he intends to completely modernise the property in the hope of receiving more return on the rent.
    On the one hand we have until March 2020 to leave (as our landlord is in no rush to do the work), however, we have also been told that if we wanted to return we would have to go through the normal channels and there is no guarantee we would be successful in our application.
    Obviously, after paying a deposit and searches etc on a property to live in while the work was done, it is unlikely we would want to go through all the effort and cost of moving back again, possibly a year later.
    When the EPC came through we were under the illusion that we would be the ones to benefit from the improvements.
    Be warned this is not always going to be the case!
    Snowy
    Originally posted by Snowy_da_cat

    Strict speaking.


    You lived there 18 years your only going to have a Assured short hold tenancy "AST" anyway, easier to evict.


    Long term tenancy are


    Moved in before February 1997 and No section 20 notice issued at start of tenancy, would be Assured Tenancy "Secure Tenancy"

    Moved in Before January 1989 Regulated Tenancy "Protected Tenancy"

    Assured and Regulated Tenancy are going to have far more protection from eviction than AST.
















    ....
    Last edited by 45002; 13-07-2018 at 6:47 PM.
    MSE censored my signature Again, No reason given
    • G_M
    • By G_M 13th Jul 18, 7:10 PM
    • 45,313 Posts
    • 54,306 Thanks
    G_M
    Check the rules. I thought the EPC requirements only applied to a new let, so you may not have to comply as an existing tenant.
    Originally posted by ProDave
    'fraid not. It applies to all new tenancies from this year (including renewals ie a replacement fixed term), but from 2020 it will apply to all existing tenancies as well.


    My sister has just inherited a rented property - the tenants are long-standing/reliable and she initially had no intention of changing anything.



    Then she discovered the EPC is 'F' and she would need o do considerable works to improve it, so she's decided to sell sometime before 2020.


    At least she can give the tenants plenty of warning and time to make arrangements, but nonetheless it's a shame when both tenant and landlord is happy.
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