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    • tomhudson21
    • By tomhudson21 10th Jul 18, 7:11 PM
    • 43Posts
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    tomhudson21
    Speeding ticket notice periods
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 18, 7:11 PM
    Speeding ticket notice periods 10th Jul 18 at 7:11 PM
    Hi all,

    I received a speeding ticket for driving 34 in a 30 zone. I am not debating whether or not I was over the limit, however I have two questions as I would rather avoid the fine and points if possible.

    1 - I received the first letter informing me my car was recorded as being over the limited 31 days after the offence. I have seen a few references to this letter needing to be sent to the registered owner of the vehicle within 28 days of the offence. Does anyone have any reference or proof this is the case? I have tried to track this down in the various Acts and legislation but it's a minefield and I'm lost.

    2 - The fact I was going 34 mph is the other issue. I have read that the limit is actually 10% plus 2 mph, meaning you are able to get away with up to 35 mph. I have also read that it's just 10%, meaning my 34 might be over the limit. Does anyone have confirmation of which of these apply?

    If either of these are the case, is it likely I could avoid the fine/points by requesting a court hearing? Given the minority of the speed, is it likely I would actually have to attend a court hearing or could this be resolved fairly easily? I don't live near where the offence occurred so I really don't fancy a long trip to attend court if I don't have to.

    Thanks all,
Page 1
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 10th Jul 18, 7:24 PM
    • 1,702 Posts
    • 1,067 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 18, 7:24 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 18, 7:24 PM
    Hi all,

    I received a speeding ticket for driving 34 in a 30 zone. I am not debating whether or not I was over the limit, however I have two questions as I would rather avoid the fine and points if possible.

    1 - I received the first letter informing me my car was recorded as being over the limited 31 days after the offence. I have seen a few references to this letter needing to be sent to the registered owner of the vehicle within 28 days of the offence. Does anyone have any reference or proof this is the case? I have tried to track this down in the various Acts and legislation but it's a minefield and I'm lost.
    Its 14 days for the registered keeper.

    2 - The fact I was going 34 mph is the other issue. I have read that the limit is actually 10% plus 2 mph, meaning you are able to get away with up to 35 mph. I have also read that it's just 10%, meaning my 34 might be over the limit. Does anyone have confirmation of which of these apply?
    The offence is exceeding the speed limit and you admit to that's. It was ACPO Guidelines.

    If either of these are the case, is it likely I could avoid the fine/points by requesting a court hearing? Given the minority of the speed, is it likely I would actually have to attend a court hearing or could this be resolved fairly easily? I don't live near where the offence occurred so I really don't fancy a long trip to attend court if I don't have to.
    Why do you want to go to court? You have no defence and will get points and a fine greater than a fixed penalty notice.

    Thanks all,
    Originally posted by tomhudson21
    Odds on they want your money and will offer you a course.
    Hi there! Weve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if youre unsure why its been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • soolin
    • By soolin 10th Jul 18, 7:44 PM
    • 60,586 Posts
    • 43,204 Thanks
    soolin
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 18, 7:44 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 18, 7:44 PM
    Hi all,

    I received a speeding ticket for driving 34 in a 30 zone. I am not debating whether or not I was over the limit, however I have two questions as I would rather avoid the fine and points if possible.

    1 - I received the first letter informing me my car was recorded as being over the limited 31 days after the offence. I have seen a few references to this letter needing to be sent to the registered owner of the vehicle within 28 days of the offence. Does anyone have any reference or proof this is the case? I have tried to track this down in the various Acts and legislation but it's a minefield and I'm lost.

    2 - The fact I was going 34 mph is the other issue. I have read that the limit is actually 10% plus 2 mph, meaning you are able to get away with up to 35 mph. I have also read that it's just 10%, meaning my 34 might be over the limit. Does anyone have confirmation of which of these apply?

    If either of these are the case, is it likely I could avoid the fine/points by requesting a court hearing? Given the minority of the speed, is it likely I would actually have to attend a court hearing or could this be resolved fairly easily? I don't live near where the offence occurred so I really don't fancy a long trip to attend court if I don't have to.

    Thanks all,
    Originally posted by tomhudson21
    As above the first NIP has to arrive in 14 days of the offence, this can delayed if the doc address is wrong, or the car is a company or leased car.

    34 in a 30 is unusual, until recently no one had been able to show a legit NIP for this speed on this site http://forums.pepipoo.com. If all your paperwork is in order and the NIP is defintiely the first and not a reminder it might be worth asking on that forum, be warned, don't try and sign up with a hotmail address, the site doesn't like them. The apparent lateness of the NIP doesn't stop the clock though, so you will need to reply and nominate the driver.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 10th Jul 18, 7:58 PM
    • 3,117 Posts
    • 4,183 Thanks
    George Michael
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 18, 7:58 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 18, 7:58 PM
    I received the first letter informing me my car was recorded as being over the limited 31 days after the offence.
    Originally posted by tomhudson21
    As above, are you the registered keeper of the vehicle concerned? and if so, is the address shown on the registration document the address that you are currently living at?
    • waamo
    • By waamo 10th Jul 18, 8:27 PM
    • 3,640 Posts
    • 4,803 Thanks
    waamo
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 18, 8:27 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 18, 8:27 PM
    Is your name and address correct on the V5c? What is the DocRef at the bottom of page 2 on the V5c?
    This space for hire.
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 10th Jul 18, 8:27 PM
    • 3,781 Posts
    • 4,464 Thanks
    Johno100
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 18, 8:27 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 18, 8:27 PM
    OP are you sure this is a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) and not just a warning letter issued as a result of a Community Speedwatch operation?
    • tomhudson21
    • By tomhudson21 10th Jul 18, 10:27 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    tomhudson21
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:27 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:27 PM
    I received the Notice of Intended Prosecution 31 days after the offence. The vehicle is registered at my current address. I already admitted that it was me driving, and have now received the Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty.

    Do I have grounds to not pay due to the lateness the NIP was issued?
    • waamo
    • By waamo 10th Jul 18, 10:31 PM
    • 3,640 Posts
    • 4,803 Thanks
    waamo
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:31 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:31 PM
    I received the Notice of Intended Prosecution 31 days after the offence. The vehicle is registered at my current address. I already admitted that it was me driving, and have now received the Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty.

    Do I have grounds to not pay due to the lateness the NIP was issued?
    Originally posted by tomhudson21
    That's why I asked the questions I did in post 5. Answer those and we might have a clue.
    This space for hire.
    • TadleyBaggie
    • By TadleyBaggie 10th Jul 18, 10:34 PM
    • 2,823 Posts
    • 2,129 Thanks
    TadleyBaggie
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:34 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:34 PM
    You would have to ignore the CoFP and wait until court proceedings commenced. You would then need to plead not guilty and present the late NIP evidence as your defence.

    I strongly suggest you take this over to Pepipoo, there are some very qualified experts who will be happy to advise.
    • tomhudson21
    • By tomhudson21 10th Jul 18, 10:47 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    tomhudson21
    That's why I asked the questions I did in post 5. Answer those and we might have a clue.
    Originally posted by waamo
    I did already confirm name and address is correct on the V5c,

    I can't tell you the specific reference for on page 2, it's not in this property.

    Thanks for trying to help though.
    • tomhudson21
    • By tomhudson21 10th Jul 18, 10:48 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    tomhudson21
    You would have to ignore the CoFP and wait until court proceedings commenced. You would then need to plead not guilty and present the late NIP evidence as your defence.

    I strongly suggest you take this over to Pepipoo, there are some very qualified experts who will be happy to advise.
    Originally posted by TadleyBaggie
    I am guessing ignore is the same as respond to them saying I wish to request a court hearing?

    I will have a look at this Pepipoo and see if they can help. I am only going to go to court if I think I actually stand a chance of winning it.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 10th Jul 18, 11:13 PM
    • 3,640 Posts
    • 4,803 Thanks
    waamo
    I did already confirm name and address is correct on the V5c,

    I can't tell you the specific reference for on page 2, it's not in this property.

    Thanks for trying to help though.
    Originally posted by tomhudson21
    If it isn't at your property how do you know it's correct? Why isn't it in front of you? That might give a clue as to where the first NIP has gone.

    The first NIP has to arrive within 14 days. It has to go to the Registed Keeper as named on the V5. That is unless there is an issue with the V5 such as it is in the process of being updated because of moving house or a recently purchased vehicle.

    The fact it isn't at your current property leads to the suspicion that there may be an issue with the V5. For example many people move and update their driving licence. They then either don't realise or forget to update the V5 resulting in the DVLA having incorrect information.

    I think you need to give a lot more details as going to court may be a bit of a gamble.
    This space for hire.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 11th Jul 18, 2:05 AM
    • 1,753 Posts
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    Mercdriver
    Definitely a pepipoo one - take a photo or scan of the notice as many people there will be keen to see evidence of enforcement at 34 in a 30.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 11th Jul 18, 8:12 AM
    • 3,103 Posts
    • 1,935 Thanks
    Car 54
    If you go to court, the onus will be on you to prove that the NIP arrived late. How do you propose to do that?
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 11th Jul 18, 8:41 AM
    • 3,781 Posts
    • 4,464 Thanks
    Johno100
    If you go to court, the onus will be on you to prove that the NIP arrived late. How do you propose to do that?
    Originally posted by Car 54
    I suppose if it dated >14 days after the alleged offence that would be a start.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 11th Jul 18, 8:52 AM
    • 3,640 Posts
    • 4,803 Thanks
    waamo
    I do have a sneaky suspicion the address on the V5 is different to the address the OP is living at.
    This space for hire.
    • TadleyBaggie
    • By TadleyBaggie 11th Jul 18, 9:17 AM
    • 2,823 Posts
    • 2,129 Thanks
    TadleyBaggie
    I do have a sneaky suspicion the address on the V5 is different to the address the OP is living at.
    Originally posted by waamo
    Indeed. I suspect the number of NIPs that are served out of time without a very good reason (based on PePiPoo cases), is about 1 in 50. Almost every time we discover the vehicle was only just purchased, it is actually leased, an error in the address etc.

    Even if the NIP was genuinely served late, don't expect an easy ride. There is a documented case (user Peterguk on PePiPoo) where the NIP was served late, he had witness that it was served late (the postman) but failed to convince the magistrates. The appeal agreed it was served late but due to an error in interpretation of the law, failed to overturn the conviction. It wasn't until he took it to the High Court that he got the conviction overturned. Here are the case details: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2009/2924.html
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 11th Jul 18, 1:17 PM
    • 1,753 Posts
    • 1,164 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    I suppose if it dated >14 days after the alleged offence that would be a start.
    Originally posted by Johno100
    Yes most of the time. But if the police have tried elsewhere because of an incorrect address, and then found the OP by another means (insurance records) then this wouldn't help.
    • TooManyPoints
    • By TooManyPoints 11th Jul 18, 1:41 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 58 Thanks
    TooManyPoints
    1 - I received the first letter informing me my car was recorded as being over the limited 31 days after the offence. I have seen a few references to this letter needing to be sent to the registered owner of the vehicle within 28 days of the offence. Does anyone have any reference or proof this is the case? I have tried to track this down in the various Acts and legislation but it's a minefield and I'm lost.
    The requirement for a NIP (which must be served on the Registered Keeper within 14 days) is contained in the Road Traffic Offenders Act, 1988, Section 1(1):

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/1

    It is unusual for enforcement to be taken at speeds below 35mph but is not precluded in law. (The limit is 30mph, not 35mph). More than that, speeds of up to 42mph would normally see a Speed Awarenesss Course offered unless the offence was committed in Scotland or you had taken one for an offence committed within the previous three years. If neither applies to you it might be worth a call to the ticket office to find out why you have not been offered a course.

    As mentioned, to defend the matter on the basis of a late NIP you will have to decline the Fixed Penalty and take the matter to court. You need to address the earlier questions concerning your address, that on the V5C and the docref; date on that document before a view can be provided on that. Genuinely late NIPs are very unusual these days if for no other reason than the ticket offices operate a system which physically prevents a first NIP being generated out of time.

    You should be aware that the cost of failure in court is high. As well as the same three points, you will pay a fine of half a weeks net income, a surcharge of 10% of the fine (Minimum 30) and prosecution costs. These would be a minimum of 300 and may be as high as 620, depending how much work is needed to prepare the case for trial.
    Last edited by TooManyPoints; 11-07-2018 at 1:46 PM.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Jul 18, 2:10 PM
    • 1,702 Posts
    • 1,067 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    The requirement for a NIP (which must be served on the Registered Keeper within 14 days) is contained in the Road Traffic Offenders Act, 1988, Section 1(1):

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/1

    It is unusual for enforcement to be taken at speeds below 35mph but is not precluded in law. (The limit is 30mph, not 35mph). More than that, speeds of up to 42mph would normally see a Speed Awarenesss Course offered unless the offence was committed in Scotland or you had taken one for an offence committed within the previous three years. If neither applies to you it might be worth a call to the ticket office to find out why you have not been offered a course.

    As mentioned, to defend the matter on the basis of a late NIP you will have to decline the Fixed Penalty and take the matter to court. You need to address the earlier questions concerning your address, that on the V5C and the docref; date on that document before a view can be provided on that. Genuinely late NIPs are very unusual these days if for no other reason than the ticket offices operate a system which physically prevents a first NIP being generated out of time.

    You should be aware that the cost of failure in court is high. As well as the same three points, you will pay a fine of half a weeks net income, a surcharge of 10% of the fine (Minimum 30) and prosecution costs. These would be a minimum of 300 and may be as high as 620, depending how much work is needed to prepare the case for trial.
    Originally posted by TooManyPoints

    How does Microsoft Word prevent that?
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