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  • FIRST POST
    • Kpros
    • By Kpros 10th Jul 18, 10:39 AM
    • 41Posts
    • 13Thanks
    Kpros
    Business post to garage instead of house
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:39 AM
    Business post to garage instead of house 10th Jul 18 at 10:39 AM
    Hi guys,

    Little bit of a random one...

    For two years I have ran my business using a PO Box. Due to expansion I have had to look at having an office. Instead of hiring an office space I took the decision to convert my big double garage into an office as the garage was not being used and the cost to renovate it worked out to be cheaper than what rent for a whole year in an office space would be.

    I would like to move away from the PO Box and have post coming to an actual address however I am unsure if there is a way to have the post go into the office (which is obviously right beside my house) as opposed to through my house? I know we're not in the 90's anymore but I was thinking that maybe just having a word with the postman could be the easiest way.

    If there is no way to do this, then I guess I will just stick with the PO Box but I would much prefer all business related communication to go into the office.

    Thanks and sorry its a bit random!
Page 1
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 10th Jul 18, 10:52 AM
    • 8,509 Posts
    • 9,635 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:52 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:52 AM
    If you want business post to be separated then you will have to get the garage recognised as separate premises by the local council. This will involve change of use planning permission and business rates.

    The council will then allocate a new building number to the garage (probably 49A if your house is 49) and inform Royal Mail who will then create a new delivery point.

    You can get PO Box mail delivered to the house but it will come bundled with all other mail unless you have a separate delivery point.

    The other option is Selectapost presorting but you need to be spending 5000+ p.a. with Royal Mail and pay fees on top.

    If you want all your post to go into the garage just move the letterbox.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • Kpros
    • By Kpros 10th Jul 18, 11:14 AM
    • 41 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Kpros
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:14 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:14 AM
    Hi Owain,

    This is really useful, thank you. I was aware of your first point and I do not want to go down the lines of having it officially registered for business use etc.

    The PO Box that we currently have works exactly as you've described above and it works fine, but we would much prefer a proper address if possible.

    I will do some research on selectapost however we receive very little post to be honest.

    Moving the letter box is an idea but not one that my wife would go along with !!!55357;!!!56836;
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 10th Jul 18, 6:35 PM
    • 6,962 Posts
    • 6,649 Thanks
    00ec25
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 18, 6:35 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 18, 6:35 PM
    i assume you operate as a sole trader rather than as a limited company?

    what are you trying to hide by not allowing "the post" to be put through your house letter box? I fail to see any real reason for your concern other than a possible volume issue

    I note your deliberate intent to stay below the radar with respect to having an undeclared business operating from dedicated space at your residential property for tax purposes.
    • Kpros
    • By Kpros 10th Jul 18, 7:30 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Kpros
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 18, 7:30 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 18, 7:30 PM
    00ec25 - where on earth did you read where I said that I have tried to 'hide' anything? What sort of reply is that? Your reply provided zero help or support.

    I am using my garage as an office to separate my business work from my personal life which saves lots room in my property and keeps it out of my family and partners way. It has given me somewhere to go to fire off some emails and fill out paperwork and basically do my work without bringing it into my house and consuming my time with my family. The last time I checked there is nothing illegal about this and there is no requirement for me to 'declare' this, unless of course you want to tell me differently?

    Why would you instantly assume I am trying to hide something by wanting my post to go elsewhere and that I have a 'concern' about my post coming through my house? One can only 'assume' that you haven't read my post properly as it currently DOES come through my house as I have stated, via a PO Box and has done for the two years that I have ran my business however the premise of my post was to find out if there was any way for this post to go into my garage instead, just so that I can separate my personal and business life.

    00ec25 - I can see that you post regularly but I don't deem it productive to jump on the attack with insinuations about things. I am simply looking to separate my personal and business post so that I can switch off from work once I get home.
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 10th Jul 18, 10:54 PM
    • 6,962 Posts
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    00ec25
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:54 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:54 PM
    you have not answered the question: sole trader or ltd co?

    as for "hiding":
    I do not want to go down the lines of having it officially registered for business use etc.
    Originally posted by Kpros
    people who state that they do not want to have things official do so because they wish to hide....
    - breach of planning permission?
    - breach of covenant?
    - breach of insurance?
    - breach of council tax?
    - tax evasion re CGT?

    00ec25 - where on earth did you read where I said that I have tried to 'hide' anything? What sort of reply is that? Your reply provided zero help or support..
    Originally posted by Kpros
    so, use of a non geographic address is not hiding from your customers? A geographic address carries the risk someone will turn up at your door and ask for restitution. A PO Box means they cannot. Well hidden that man.

    indeed, help and support when it requires you to admit to wrong doing is of course "inconvenient".

    you have failed to provide concrete rationale why you need to have separate post other than "the wife doesn't like it".
    Last edited by 00ec25; 10-07-2018 at 11:33 PM.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 10th Jul 18, 10:57 PM
    • 39,022 Posts
    • 35,905 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:57 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:57 PM
    If you want business post to be separated then you will have to get the garage recognised as separate premises by the local council. This will involve change of use planning permission and business rates.
    Originally posted by Owain Moneysaver
    Would change of use, planning permission and business rates not be involved in the conversion anyway?

    This is really useful, thank you. I was aware of your first point and I do not want to go down the lines of having it officially registered for business use etc.
    Originally posted by Kpros
    I hope you have at least informed your insurers, both business and personal.
    Still knitting!
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    • antrobus
    • By antrobus 11th Jul 18, 1:08 AM
    • 16,008 Posts
    • 22,834 Thanks
    antrobus
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 18, 1:08 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 18, 1:08 AM
    Would change of use, planning permission and business rates not be involved in the conversion anyway? ...
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    No, you only need building regs for a garage conversion. (Says someone who has just had their garage converted.)

    You'd need planning permission for change of use to business. Given that the OP uses it for 'office space' it's debatable whether planning permission would be an issue. Business rates would still be due I would have thought.

    Given that the OP has stated "I do not want to go down the lines of having it officially registered for business use etc" I don't think any of this has happened.

    If I was the OP I'd put aside any ideas of a separate PO address for fear of alerting the authorities to this state of affairs.

    I hope you have at least informed your insurers, both business and personal.
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    And the mortgage lender, if there is one. And the OP might face a bill for CGT should they sell the property.
    • Kpros
    • By Kpros 11th Jul 18, 12:10 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Kpros
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 18, 12:10 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 18, 12:10 PM
    00ec25 - so you're essentially saying that anybody who opts for a PO Box is being deceptive? That's a very narrow-minded view in my opinion as well as being completely inaccurate and you are stereotyping a LOT of businesses with this statement. Some very big companies too, some of which work under for example the ministry of justice.

    You are essentially stating that by entering my garage with my work mobile phone and work laptop and engaging with any customers or doing any form of work I am in breach of (I will copy and paste your wonderful list):

    - breach of planning permission?
    - breach of covenant?
    - breach of insurance?
    - breach of council tax?
    - tax evasion re CGT?

    You are also stating that I need planning permission to alter the inside of my garage, correct? I think you will find that you are wrong and have no idea what you are talking about. I can do whatever I like to the inside of my garage and I do not need any kind of permission to do so. As I have only put up stud walls and painted them, I think you will find that this is absolutely 'allowed' Furthermore, I do not use my garage as a shop and no customers go there. It is (as I stated on a number of occasions) somewhere for me to get my administration sorted.out prior to coming into the family property.

    You have hopped on the attack from your first message and offered no guidance. My conclusion of you is that you are a fool and completely unhelpful and I do not require any more responses from you .
    • Paul_DNAP
    • By Paul_DNAP 11th Jul 18, 1:52 PM
    • 256 Posts
    • 324 Thanks
    Paul_DNAP
    You are also stating that I need planning permission to alter the inside of my garage, correct?

    Not necessarily the internal modifications themselves, but maybe the change of use might need to be notified or permitted, and it is likely that you will need to do something like that before you can have the garage registered as a separate postal address as a commercial premises.
    (Although I could be wrong, I often am.)
    • Kpros
    • By Kpros 11th Jul 18, 2:03 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Kpros
    Hi Paul,

    Prior to making the internal modifications my builder confirmed that I did not need permission and there was no requirement for me to notify anybody. If I was trading from the garage then this would be different but I pure and simply go in there around 6pm every evening to complete my administrative duties (and occasionally on a weekend).

    After reflecting on the sensible replies on here I am going to have the post come through my residential address as there makes no sense to register the garage based on the amount (and type) of use.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 11th Jul 18, 2:06 PM
    • 3,238 Posts
    • 4,653 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    Personal Mail:

    Mr Blogs
    1 Acacia Avenue
    Etc


    Business Mail:

    XXX Ltd
    1 Acacia Avenue
    Etc

    Everything comes through the same (home) letterbox - but is easily sorted.

    Or am I missing something here?
    • Kpros
    • By Kpros 11th Jul 18, 2:14 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Kpros
    Personal Mail:

    Mr Blogs
    1 Acacia Avenue
    Etc


    Business Mail:

    XXX Ltd
    1 Acacia Avenue
    Etc

    Everything comes through the same (home) letterbox - but is easily sorted.

    Or am I missing something here?
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    Hi Silver, Yes you have missed the point... I am basically trying to separate my personal and business life! I'm not sure why people are struggling to grasp this! My business consumes a heck of a lot of my time and regularly comes between me and my partner so I've made a number of pledges to her which all stem around switching off from work when I get home. To enable me to do that I complete all admin in my garage/office before coming in my house and thus I was just wondering if there was a way in which the business post could also go into the garage/office rather than directly through my actual property.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 11th Jul 18, 2:31 PM
    • 3,238 Posts
    • 4,653 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    Hi Silver, Yes you have missed the point... I am basically trying to separate my personal and business life! I'm not sure why people are struggling to grasp this! My business consumes a heck of a lot of my time and regularly comes between me and my partner so I've made a number of pledges to her which all stem around switching off from work when I get home. To enable me to do that I complete all admin in my garage/office before coming in my house and thus I was just wondering if there was a way in which the business post could also go into the garage/office rather than directly through my actual property.
    Originally posted by Kpros

    Then the choice is yours - register your garage as separate property No 1A Acacia Avenue, with all the costs that would involve, or just buy two mail trays for the hall table - one for personal, one for business. First one home sorts the mail and chucks the business tray into the garage.

    To be honest, even if you did go down the separate premises route, I bet that the postie will get your mail jumbled and put personal mail into the garage premises and business mail into your home letter box.
    Last edited by Silvertabby; 11-07-2018 at 2:39 PM.
    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 11th Jul 18, 3:34 PM
    • 10,484 Posts
    • 19,560 Thanks
    Pennywise
    00ec25 - so you're essentially saying that anybody who opts for a PO Box is being deceptive? That's a very narrow-minded view in my opinion as well as being completely inaccurate and you are stereotyping a LOT of businesses with this statement. Some very big companies too, some of which work under for example the ministry of justice.
    Originally posted by Kpros
    Maybe, but their "real" address is also available as required by the various statutes. In the case of big organisations, it's more for admin purposes rather than trying to hide their true business address. When a private individual does it, it's usually to hide their home address, hence the suspicion of deception.
    • Kpros
    • By Kpros 11th Jul 18, 5:24 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Kpros
    Maybe, but their "real" address is also available as required by the various statutes. In the case of big organisations, it's more for admin purposes rather than trying to hide their true business address. When a private individual does it, it's usually to hide their home address, hence the suspicion of deception.
    Originally posted by Pennywise
    Hi Pennywise, this statement was made without him having any of the facts or circumstances. The reason for my PO Box has absolutely nothing to do with deception and my real address is also available.
    • Kpros
    • By Kpros 11th Jul 18, 5:26 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Kpros
    Then the choice is yours - register your garage as separate property No 1A Acacia Avenue, with all the costs that would involve, or just buy two mail trays for the hall table - one for personal, one for business. First one home sorts the mail and chucks the business tray into the garage.

    To be honest, even if you did go down the separate premises route, I bet that the postie will get your mail jumbled and put personal mail into the garage premises and business mail into your home letter box.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    Hi Silver, Yes, you're probably right with the latter. I will probably leave it as status quo. I'm just trying to make steps to differentiate the business and my personal life, that's all. Thanks for your advice.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 11th Jul 18, 5:38 PM
    • 10,680 Posts
    • 6,187 Thanks
    CIS
    You are essentially stating that by entering my garage with my work mobile phone and work laptop and engaging with any customers or doing any form of work I am in breach of (I will copy and paste your wonderful list):

    - breach of planning permission?
    - breach of covenant?
    - breach of insurance?
    - breach of council tax?
    - tax evasion re CGT?
    Depending on the specific level of usage of the garage it may affect the council tax banding in that the use of the garage may need to be looked at for business rates and be separated from the council tax band assigned to the house.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax specialist. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 11th Jul 18, 7:21 PM
    • 6,962 Posts
    • 6,649 Thanks
    00ec25
    Hi Pennywise, this statement was made without him having any of the facts or circumstances. The reason for my PO Box has absolutely nothing to do with deception and my real address is also available.
    Originally posted by Kpros
    the statement was made because you created the impression of having an unexplained desire to be invisible: "I do not want to go down the lines of having it officially registered"
    If you cannot understand that impression then I refer you to words 7-10 of the last sentence in your reply to me
    as i asked: sole trader or Ltd co. One legally has to provide a real address, one does not. But the consumer is perfectly within their right to wonder why such effort was made not to provide a real address.

    as for my list of implications to consider:
    https://www.gov.uk/run-business-from-home

    - breach of planning permission?
    "Sometimes permitted development rights have been removed from some properties with regard to garage conversions and therefore you should contact your local planning authority before proceeding, particularly if you live on a new housing development or in a conservation area." https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/25/garage_conversion

    - breach of covenant?
    "The first thing you need to find out is if there are any legal restrictions, or restrictive covenants, on running a business from your home. These covenants may prohibit certain uses of your home."
    https://www.simplybusiness.co.uk/knowledge/articles/2018/01/do-i-need-permission-to-run-a-business-from-home/

    - breach of insurance?
    https://www.moneysupermarket.com/money-made-easy/are-you-covered-to-work-from-home/

    - breach of council tax?
    covered by CIS in the post above

    - tax evasion re CGT?
    Please note that using a part of your property exclusively for business purposes can restrict certain Capital Gains Tax reliefs so it is worthwhile ensuring that a home office has an alternative domestic purpose outside of working hours. Therefore, furniture, fixtures and fittings along with any refurbishment costs are not recommended to be claimed through the business.
    https://support.sherwincurrid.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/172
    Last edited by 00ec25; 11-07-2018 at 7:23 PM.
    • aife
    • By aife 11th Jul 18, 8:07 PM
    • 195 Posts
    • 161 Thanks
    aife
    Buy your wife a uniform and get her to sort out the post and bring it to you
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