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    • CarDriver
    • By CarDriver 10th Jul 18, 10:29 AM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    CarDriver
    PCN issued by PPS at my workplace
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:29 AM
    PCN issued by PPS at my workplace 10th Jul 18 at 10:29 AM
    Hi all,

    I received a windscreen PCN whilst my car was parked at my workplace - I had my car washed the day before and had not realised the parking permit had fallen off the dashboard and was sitting on my center console.

    The car park is run by PPS (BPA member) in London.

    My first mistake was to appeal against the PCN giving my name and address, thus admitting to being the driver, however, I felt that with the confirmation from my workplace that I owned a permanent parking permit, there would be no issue.

    I believe the parking signs are well made and clear so there won't be a case for that.

    Their rejection letter stated that "the vehicle was parked on private land in contravention of the Conditions of Use."

    I guess my question is; Do I have a chance at court given my permit was not displayed on the windscreen as instructed by the sign? Instead it what on my center console (assuming the cleaner having moved it or it fell off).

    The next stage is the POPLA route.

    Thanks for any help.
Page 1
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Jul 18, 10:40 AM
    • 10,538 Posts
    • 10,374 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:40 AM
    • #2
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:40 AM
    I believe the parking signs are well made and clear so there won't be a case for that.

    But are they the correct size, height, colours, font sizes? Do they have planning/advertising permissions, are they unambiguous, is the penalty amount clearly larger than the surrounding print.

    This is a scam so concede nothing, give them no quarter. Read this

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/motorist-wins-18-month-ticket-battle-870812
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Jul 18, 10:50 AM
    • 20,214 Posts
    • 31,889 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:50 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Jul 18, 10:50 AM
    My first mistake was to appeal against the PCN giving my name and address, thus admitting to being the driver,
    Giving your name and address isn't an admission of being the driver. What exactly did you say in your appeal?

    I believe the parking signs are well made and clear so there won't be a case for that.
    So you're an expert on private parking signage?

    How do the signs compare with the requirements (colour, content, positioning, volume, font size and others) of their Trade Association's Code of Practice?

    How do they compare with the signage that formed such an important element of the ParkingEye v Barry Beavis case at The Supreme Court and which the seven Lord Justices' Judgment (and subsequent Tweet) made specific comment on?

    Did the signage offer a 'licence to park', or was it 'prohibiting' in nature?

    Do you have detailed photographs of the signage in place at the time?

    The next stage is the POPLA route.
    Do you have a POPLA Code?

    The car park is run by PPS (BPA member) in London.
    Can you please confirm the full and precise name of the private parking company (PPC) as there are a few with very similar acronyms. Advice can vary depending on which PPC you're dealing with.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • CarDriver
    • By CarDriver 10th Jul 18, 11:29 AM
    • 3 Posts
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    CarDriver
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:29 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Jul 18, 11:29 AM
    Hi - Thanks for such quick responses.


    My appeal read:

    REF: PCN ******* "Address of office" 22nd June 2018
    Vehicle Registration: **** ***
    Address: "Inserted Address"

    Good morning,

    I hold a permanent parking pass for *My office* as this is my place of work and have held this pass since April 2018. My car had been cleaned on Thursday 21st June and I believe the pass was slightly more obscured in the dashboard area than its normal position high up in the windscreen. On Friday 22nd June I came out of my office to find a PCN on my windscreen with the reason code as unauthorised parking The office staff are happy to confirm my permanent pass and that I have held it since April 2018 (See attached email)."

    The attached email contained the Office staff confirming my permanent pass.

    The company is Private Parking Solutions and they provided two photos of the sign (one being the actual sign and the other being a pdf showing the dimensions. I would attach/link them here but as I am a new member I am not allowed to use links. They also showed 3 pictures of my car within a bay and one close up of my windscreen.


    So you're an expert on private parking signage?
    Fair point! No I am not - unsure how to link a picture of the sign used as I am a new member and cannot provide links.

    I have a 10 digit verification code which I believe is the POPLA code?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Jul 18, 5:31 PM
    • 20,214 Posts
    • 31,889 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 18, 5:31 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Jul 18, 5:31 PM
    unsure how to link a picture of the sign used as I am a new member and cannot provide links.
    See below:

    HOW TO UPLOAD LINKS TO PHOTOS/SCANS TO MSE

    To upload a photo/scan link, you first need to host it on a free photo hosting site (like Dropbox, Imurg or Tinypic), copy the URL, paste it here, but change the http to hxxp and we'll do the conversion. Newbies can't directly upload links to photos/scans until they've got a few posts under their belt.
    I have a 10 digit verification code which I believe is the POPLA code?
    You need to be cracking on with drafting your POPLA appeal. The NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 has a number of template appeal points for you to use, provided they are appropriate (most are).

    In terms of the actual ticket:

    1. This was a windscreen ticket? Yes/No
    2. Date of the 'contravention'?
    3. Have you received any other correspondence from PPS (Notice to Keeper)? Yes/No
    4. If so, how is it headed?
    5. Date of its issue?
    6. Date received?


    EDIT - unnecessary questions, driver's identity revealed! My 'Oops'.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 10-07-2018 at 5:43 PM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jul 18, 5:39 PM
    • 63,830 Posts
    • 76,484 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 18, 5:39 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Jul 18, 5:39 PM
    Next time you get one, DON'T blab about who parked the car, in your appeal. This would have been 100% winnable at POPLA for a registered keeper appellant v this minnow of the parking world.

    Count yourself lucky you have a useless small parking firm on site (no PPC would be far better).

    Now it's only 90% winnable! It's still probable you will win with a 'kitchen sink' (throw long appeal points at it) appeal using the templates from the NEWBIES thread.

    And why not mock up where the permit was and take a very clear photo from a careful angle in YOUR favour showing that had the operative leaned closer, the permit was of course visible...prove it in your POPLA appeal and use the 'dodgy signs' and 'no landowner authority' templates from the third post of the NEWBIES sticky thread.

    Your pic of the permit being in fact, visible for your angle, should be embedded in the appeal document as an illustration, with some appropriate words. Not as a separate attachment.

    If you lose, of course this isn't a firm to pay money to!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 12-07-2018 at 12:07 AM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • CarDriver
    • By CarDriver 11th Jul 18, 9:58 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    CarDriver
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 18, 9:58 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Jul 18, 9:58 AM
    hxxps://.dropbox.com/s/0uq9sj38vxwrjks/PPS%20%20-%20New%20Sign%202017%20%28002%29.jpg?dl=0

    hxxps://.dropbox.com/s/8bu5ry5d1sxavqv/Sign.JPG?dl=0

    (I had to remove the 'www.' part also as it still recognised the link without the https).

    I shall take another read through the Newbie thread and start my Popla appeal!
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 11th Jul 18, 10:03 AM
    • 3,346 Posts
    • 2,297 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 18, 10:03 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Jul 18, 10:03 AM
    Here are your links checked and made live

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/0uq9sj38vxwrjks/PPS%20%20-%20New%20Sign%202017%20%28002%29.jpg?dl=0

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/8bu5ry5d1sxavqv/Sign.JPG?dl=0
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 11th Jul 18, 10:10 AM
    • 20,214 Posts
    • 31,889 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 18, 10:10 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Jul 18, 10:10 AM
    Forbidding sign, only offering parking to permit holders. Non permit holder = trespasser. Trespassers can only be shot pursued by the landowner (PE v Beavis Supreme Court confirmed this).

    Therefore this is an unashamed penalty - no private company can issue such. This will form part of your POPLA appeal.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 11-07-2018 at 10:15 AM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
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