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  • FIRST POST
    • Johnnyboywdz
    • By Johnnyboywdz 10th Jul 18, 9:57 AM
    • 19Posts
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    Johnnyboywdz
    Car released from garage without authority
    • #1
    • 10th Jul 18, 9:57 AM
    Car released from garage without authority 10th Jul 18 at 9:57 AM
    Good morning - New on here, and my first thread


    I have a Landrover Discovery 4, 2012 54k miles. Broke down in France. Got in touch with English transport guy via a web site in France. He agreed to transport to Landrover dealer in UK for xx amount - nothing signed, and stayed at our place for few days..got on well


    Delivered car to main dealer. It has been there for 10 weeks while I have been wrangling with Landrover over warranties..contribuitions etc... Dealer had no problem with holding vehicle there for me


    Meanwhile, in France wrote off my other car when lorry pulled across me on motorway forcing me into barriers, and cleared off. Anyway, was a write off, got paid out, and told they would collect it.


    8 weeks later no collection. Phoned insurance for update. Told they had to arrange for it to come back to UK. At the time the transport guy who recovered my Landrover to UK was staying for few days as was collecting cars near us. He had a spare place on his transporter, so I suggested to insurance that maybe he could recover it back to UK. They called him and all arranged and off he went, after we had agreed that he would use their payment to cover my cost...so we were quits




    Something didn't ring right with this transport guy..gut feeling, so 2 weeks ago I phoned Landrover dealer and instructed them to only deal with myself, and specifically not to deal with the transport guy, or his company


    Imagine my shock, when I phoned the Landrover dealer yesterday to inform them that I had arranged for a friend to collect my car from them, and was informed that someone had collected it last week!!


    I asked who had signed for it, and they told me it was the guy from the transport company, who I had specifically told them not to deal with, and they had not even contacted me for authorisation! No receipt signed or anything. They said “well he had the correct paperwork” which was a photo of the front page of the log book I had sent him for when he initially transported it to UK


    Told them that they were liable and that it was down to them to recover my car. They would check with the manager, who was off yesterday, and come back to me – No call back so far




    So….as far as I am concerned, the dealer is liable, due to negligence, on the following points;


    • They released the vehicle without my authorisation, and without any correct paperwork
    • I specifically informed them not to deal with anyone except myself, and in particular not the transport guy or his company – (I have voice recording of the conversation)


    I have logged this with my local police station, and have a crime reference number, as my vehicle has been stolen, taken without my permission, but they think it might be a civil matter??? They are forwarding the report to the county where the vehicle was taken from, and they will decide if civil case or not


    Am correct in my thinking, and how should I progress ?


    Thanks in advance
Page 3
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Jul 18, 5:21 PM
    • 2,337 Posts
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    AndyMc.....
    What do you mean by this?

    "They called him and all arranged and off he went, after we had agreed that he would use their payment to cover my cost...so we were quits"

    If at any point while he was staying with you you suggested that he would pick up your Land Rover then you'll have a hard time proving TWOC. In fact he could argue you did - the photocopy of the documents might assist him. Why did you not recover this from him?
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    The TWOC would come in the UK when he removed the car from the dealer.

    You can steal your own car from a garage.
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    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 11th Jul 18, 5:35 PM
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    Mercdriver
    The TWOC would come in the UK when he removed the car from the dealer.

    You can steal your own car from a garage.
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    But what if he just said that the OP had told him to collect the car? Then it becomes he says he said. The fact that he had stayed with the OP on two occasions would muddy the waters too.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Jul 18, 5:37 PM
    • 2,337 Posts
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    AndyMc.....
    But what if he just said that the OP had told him to collect the car? Then it becomes he says he said. The fact that he had stayed with the OP on two occasions would muddy the waters too.
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    So anyone staying at your home has free access to your car, meaning they take it and get stopped by the police you're happy to be done for permitting no insurance?
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    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 11th Jul 18, 5:42 PM
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    Mercdriver
    So anyone staying at your home has free access to your car, meaning they take it and get stopped by the police you're happy to be done for permitting no insurance?
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    This not the same thing. He can argue that he has a verbal contract to pick up the car on the transporter. No driving without insurance involved as he's not driving the car.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Jul 18, 5:48 PM
    • 2,337 Posts
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    AndyMc.....
    This not the same thing. He can argue that he has a verbal contract to pick up the car on the transporter. No driving without insurance involved as he's not driving the car.
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    It is, it may be a shock to you but criminal lie to the police. You don't know what he's done with the car but if he's sold it on or it's not recovered you're looking at theft.
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    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 11th Jul 18, 6:08 PM
    • 18,366 Posts
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    AdrianC
    It is, it may be a shock to you but criminal lie to the police.
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    Sure, but he's got documentary evidence of previous similar contractual arrangements.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Jul 18, 6:15 PM
    • 2,337 Posts
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    AndyMc.....
    Sure, but he's got documentary evidence of previous similar contractual arrangements.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    So what's his honest explanation for removing the car and not returning it to the owner?
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    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 11th Jul 18, 8:11 PM
    • 1,142 Posts
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    seashore22
    At best we're not getting the full true story here, at worst it's complete fantasy. I think the OP needs to be more upfront here and explain exactly what's transpired.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    I'm eagerly awaiting the day when someone actually admits that they've made up the whole thing.

    In all my years on the internet I've never seen that happen. Now that would be a thread worth reading. One day maybe.
    • photome
    • By photome 11th Jul 18, 9:45 PM
    • 13,477 Posts
    • 8,988 Thanks
    photome
    So what's his honest explanation for removing the car and not returning it to the owner?
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    The Op hasn’t asked him
    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 11th Jul 18, 9:45 PM
    • 3,290 Posts
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    Ectophile
    So what's his honest explanation for removing the car and not returning it to the owner?
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....

    He was collecting it from the garage, and delivering it to a dealer in the UK to be repaired.


    Or have I completely misunderstood the very confusing story?
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Jul 18, 9:48 PM
    • 2,337 Posts
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    AndyMc.....
    He was collecting it from the garage, and delivering it to a dealer in the UK to be repaired.


    Or have I completely misunderstood the very confusing story?
    Originally posted by Ectophile
    He's taken the car from the dealer.
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    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Jul 18, 9:49 PM
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    AndyMc.....
    The Op hasn’t asked him
    Originally posted by photome
    Even if he did, what can he say?
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    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 11th Jul 18, 10:50 PM
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    Mercdriver
    It is, it may be a shock to you but criminal lie to the police. You don't know what he's done with the car but if he's sold it on or it's not recovered you're looking at theft.
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    How can the OP be done for permitting if the car is on a transporter? The transporter would not be driving the car but the transporter van/lorry/low loader.

    He could easily tell the police that he had been asked to take it to place X or that the OP had said he would pay him £xxx and hasn't paid. It's easy to see how police could see it as a civil rather than a criminal matter.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 11th Jul 18, 10:56 PM
    • 2,337 Posts
    • 1,428 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    How can the OP be done for permitting if the car is on a transporter? The transporter would not be driving the car but the transporter van/lorry/low loader.

    He could easily tell the police that he had been asked to take it to place X or that the OP had said he would pay him £xxx and hasn't paid. It's easy to see how police could see it as a civil rather than a criminal matter.
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    Sorry but if the story were true, he dishonestly appropriated the car when he went to the dealer.
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    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 11th Jul 18, 11:21 PM
    • 2,315 Posts
    • 3,137 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    I'm eagerly awaiting the day when someone actually admits that they've made up the whole thing.

    In all my years on the internet I've never seen that happen. Now that would be a thread worth reading. One day maybe.
    Originally posted by seashore22
    This one came pretty close, although the OP here tried to claim he’d made it up when he got responses he didn’t like.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5475832#topofpage
    Please forgive the deliberate omission of apostrophes on some posts whilst I await MSE to do something about the daft codes that appear in their place when typing on certain devices.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 12th Jul 18, 1:13 AM
    • 2,015 Posts
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    Mercdriver
    Sorry but if the story were true, he dishonestly appropriated the car when he went to the dealer.
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    But from what we know in this thread how can you be sure what the truth is? There are so many holes in the OP's story, it's hard to know what or who to believe.
    • Nobbie1967
    • By Nobbie1967 12th Jul 18, 7:12 AM
    • 796 Posts
    • 878 Thanks
    Nobbie1967
    Even if he did, what can he say?
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    Maybe, that he'd been asked to recover the car from the dealer as the owner was going to find a cheaper garage to do the work required and that he was still awaiting contact from the owner as to the new garage. As the OP has not contacted the recovery driver since he took the car it seems a pretty plausible story.

    The police aren't going to charge someone on such flimsy 'evidence' as the criminal burden of proof is 'beyond reasonable doubt'. There is more than reasonable doubt over everything the OP has said so far. To be honest, given the background info supplied by the OP, I'm not even sure I believe the car has been stolen on the balance of probabilities.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 12th Jul 18, 7:41 AM
    • 2,337 Posts
    • 1,428 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    Maybe, that he'd been asked to recover the car from the dealer as the owner was going to find a cheaper garage to do the work required and that he was still awaiting contact from the owner as to the new garage. As the OP has not contacted the recovery driver since he took the car it seems a pretty plausible story.

    The police aren't going to charge someone on such flimsy 'evidence' as the criminal burden of proof is 'beyond reasonable doubt'. There is more than reasonable doubt over everything the OP has said so far. To be honest, given the background info supplied by the OP, I'm not even sure I believe the car has been stolen on the balance of probabilities.
    Originally posted by Nobbie1967
    Well in that case there would be evidence of the car being at another garage. Although why it would be removed from a main dealer when it’s in for warranty work is odd.
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    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 12th Jul 18, 7:43 AM
    • 2,337 Posts
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    AndyMc.....
    But from what we know in this thread how can you be sure what the truth is? There are so many holes in the OP's story, it's hard to know what or who to believe.
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    You can’t as I said if the story were true that’s where he’s been dishonest in relation to theft .
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    • Nobbie1967
    • By Nobbie1967 12th Jul 18, 7:58 AM
    • 796 Posts
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    Nobbie1967
    Well in that case there would be evidence of the car being at another garage. Although why it would be removed from a main dealer when it’s in for warranty work is odd.
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    Not if he'd been asked to hold it pending a decision by the owner. This wouldn't be the only thing about the story that is odd, probably why the police do not want to get involved. They have experience of people trying to BS them.

    The OP seems to have done a runner, so seems like we are just arguing for the sake of it now, how unlike the motoring sub forum
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