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  • FIRST POST
    • MissPop
    • By MissPop 9th Jul 18, 11:00 PM
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    MissPop
    Property and wills
    • #1
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:00 PM
    Property and wills 9th Jul 18 at 11:00 PM
    Sorry if this isn't the right place to post this, I looked long and hard!

    Bit of a sorry saga, but to try and keep it short...

    I was in a "common law" relationship (I realise that is not a legal term), cohabiting with a partner for what I thought was the long term. He purchased a house during the relationship, and while I couldn't contribute financially, it was agreed that I would "keep the house" and undertook general housekeeping tasks whilst finishing my uni degree.

    He left me at Christmas and I was forced to leave the property we shared. While I completely accept I had no financial right to the property at that point, I was named in his will. According to that will, in the event of his death I would be entitled to half the house.

    Basically, do I have ANY recourse in terms of what was assigned to me in the will? I think I've heard mention that common law partners can in some cases claim a portion of the amount of a shared property, even if the original capital didn't come from both partners.

    I don't know whether I am still named in the will - I certainly was the last time I checked - but would that have any impact at all on anything I could possibly be entitled to? Would any kind of charge on the property be possible?
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Page 1
    • elsien
    • By elsien 9th Jul 18, 11:08 PM
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    elsien
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:08 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:08 PM
    The will is only relevant if/when he dies. Which presumably isn't the case at the moment.
    I think what you're thinking of is having a beneficial interest if you have paid towards the house while living there. This doesn't seem to have happened in any way, and you've saved yourself a lot of rent while living there, so wanting a share of the house as well is a tad optimistic.
    Basically he's kept you and now you want a share of his main asset. Not happening, unless there's more you've not said.
    Last edited by elsien; 09-07-2018 at 11:16 PM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 9th Jul 18, 11:11 PM
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    AnotherJoe
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:11 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:11 PM
    I dont see what the will has got to do with anything at all, since as far as you mention, he hasnt died ? I could say I'm leaving my house to battersea dogs home in my will. that doesnt give them the right to come after me now, before I've started pushing up the daisies !!!



    You also say you "couldn't contribute financially, so undertook general housekeeping tasks" but all that means is you cleaned up the house and perhaps cooked in a house you were also living and eating in. Again, I dont see why you think that gives you any right to the property.
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 9th Jul 18, 11:15 PM
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    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:15 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:15 PM
    So, from another viewpoint: you've shacked up with some bloke in his house and lived rent free while you had the opportunity to "better yourself" through study ... and now you want some of his house?

    I'd give that a big fat "pffft" if I were to be a judge on that one.
    • MissPop
    • By MissPop 9th Jul 18, 11:19 PM
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    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:19 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:19 PM
    I dont see what the will has got to do with anything at all, since as far as you mention, he hasnt died ? I could say I'm leaving my house to battersea dogs home in my will. that doesnt give them the right to come after me now, before I've started pushing up the daisies !!!



    You also say you "couldn't contribute financially, so undertook general housekeeping tasks" but all that means is you cleaned up the house and perhaps cooked in a house you were also living and eating in. Again, I dont see why you think that gives you any right to the property.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    Fair enough, and I get what you're saying, I just wasn't sure if there was any 'beneficial interest' for someone named as a devisee of a will in lieu of a legal partnership. I had got the impression from other sources that this may be the case.

    It was agreed when the property was bought that I would not contribute financially but that my contribution would come from maintaining the house.
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    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 9th Jul 18, 11:31 PM
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    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:31 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:31 PM
    Fair enough, and I get what you're saying, I just wasn't sure if there was any 'beneficial interest' for someone named as a devisee of a will in lieu of a legal partnership. I had got the impression from other sources that this may be the case.

    Things in a will only take effect after death !

    It was agreed when the property was bought that I would not contribute financially but that my contribution would come from maintaining the house.
    Originally posted by MissPop
    I am impressed by the way you now give the impression the discussion went along the lines "shall I pay you half the mortgage and rates and bills, or do some hoovering instead?" and he chose hoovering, rather than the more likely "I've got no money but am at home half the day anyway, so I'll do some hoovering as long as it doesn't interfere with neighbours"
    • MissPop
    • By MissPop 9th Jul 18, 11:32 PM
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    MissPop
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:32 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:32 PM
    So, from another viewpoint: you've shacked up with some bloke in his house and lived rent free while you had the opportunity to "better yourself" through study ... and now you want some of his house?

    I'd give that a big fat "pffft" if I were to be a judge on that one.
    Originally posted by PasturesNew
    We were together for years, before he bought the house, and I had already started my studies before we started our relationship. I have health issues which impact on my ability to work and he was happy for me to look after the house while finishing my Masters degree in lieu of rent etc.

    I just want to know if there is any possibility that I may have a stake in the property, however small. I know it's unlikely, but what if he WERE to pass away and I was still named in the will?
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    • MissPop
    • By MissPop 9th Jul 18, 11:34 PM
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    MissPop
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:34 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:34 PM
    I am impressed by the way you now give the impression the discussion went along the lines "shall I pay you half the mortgage and rates and bills, or do some hoovering instead?" and he chose hoovering, rather than the more likely "I've got no money but am at home half the day anyway, so I'll do some hoovering as long as it doesn't interfere with neighbours"
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    I think you've got the wrong impression of me and my situation, but thank you for your honesty...
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    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 9th Jul 18, 11:45 PM
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    • #9
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:45 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:45 PM
    We were together for years, before he bought the house, and I had already started my studies before we started our relationship. I have health issues which impact on my ability to work and he was happy for me to look after the house while finishing my Masters degree in lieu of rent etc.

    I just want to know if there is any possibility that I may have a stake in the property, however small. I know it's unlikely, but what if he WERE to pass away and I was still named in the will?
    Originally posted by MissPop
    Are you planning something like a an unfortunate accident for him ? Dodgy hoover wiring maybe? best not to posit such a question in an open forum perhaps ?

    If you are mentioned as a beneficiary in the will of someone who died, then aside the will being challenged by relatives, or invalid*, you should get (subject to availability) whatever was left to you. Why would you think otherwise ?

    * he got married.
    It wasn't witnessed properly
    Etc
    Last edited by AnotherJoe; 09-07-2018 at 11:47 PM.
    • MissPop
    • By MissPop 9th Jul 18, 11:51 PM
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    MissPop
    Are you planning something like a an unfortunate accident for him ? Dodgy hoover wiring maybe? best nit to posit such a question in an open forum perhaps ?

    If you are mentioned as a beneficiary in the will of someone who died, then aside the will being challenged by relatives, or invalid, you should get (subject to availability) whatever was left to you. Why would you think otherwise ?
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    Not at all!

    I see what you're saying, I was just wondering, really, if being named as a beneficiary counted for anything in a common law partnership - in lieu of a marriage or any other kind of legal agreement. I got the impression that one may be entitled to something if contributions were made outside of say, a mortgage. I guess it counts for diddly squat (like the relationship!)
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    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 9th Jul 18, 11:51 PM
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    davidmcn
    I just wasn't sure if there was any 'beneficial interest' for someone named as a devisee of a will in lieu of a legal partnership. I had got the impression from other sources that this may be the case.
    Originally posted by MissPop
    Can you point us towards these other sources, so we can try to get them corrected?
    • MissPop
    • By MissPop 9th Jul 18, 11:58 PM
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    MissPop
    Can you point us towards these other sources, so we can try to get them corrected?
    Originally posted by davidmcn
    From https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/living-together-and-breaking

    "How the law treats any money you contributed to the home you lived in but donít own depends on what you and your ex agreed or understood between you. Was it a loan Ė to be repaid at an agreed date with or without interest as agreed? Was it a gift? Or was it a contribution which gives you a legal right called a beneficial interest?"

    "If you can prove that you have a beneficial interest (and this is often very difficult to do), this may allow you to get the right to live in the home, to prevent the sale of the home for a limited period of time, to pay the mortgage so as to prevent the home being repossessed or get a share from the proceeds of sale if the home is sold."

    I appreciate it is at best optimistic, but I cleaned, I cooked, I bought groceries, I did washing, I painted the house, I gardened, I looked after the dog that he wanted to get (and which I now solely look after, despite not being able to afford it). I just wanted to explore any possible avenue.
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    • amnblog
    • By amnblog 10th Jul 18, 7:43 AM
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    amnblog
    While I completely accept I had no financial right to the property at that point
    Originally posted by MissPop
    Not quite sure what happened to this position?

    If you were and are still named in your Ex's Will, you may have some rights on death.

    If smart your Ex has already changed it if that were the case.
    I am a Mortgage Broker

    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Broker, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 10th Jul 18, 8:20 AM
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    davidmcn
    From https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/living-together-and-breaking

    "How the law treats any money you contributed to the home you lived in but donít own depends on what you and your ex agreed or understood between you. Was it a loan Ė to be repaid at an agreed date with or without interest as agreed? Was it a gift? Or was it a contribution which gives you a legal right called a beneficial interest?"

    "If you can prove that you have a beneficial interest (and this is often very difficult to do), this may allow you to get the right to live in the home, to prevent the sale of the home for a limited period of time, to pay the mortgage so as to prevent the home being repossessed or get a share from the proceeds of sale if the home is sold."
    Originally posted by MissPop
    Ok, nothing there about Wills though.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 10th Jul 18, 8:31 AM
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    AnotherJoe
    I appreciate it is at best optimistic, but I cleaned, I cooked, I bought groceries, I did washing, I painted the house, I gardened, I looked after the dog that he wanted to get (and which I now solely look after, despite not being able to afford it). I just wanted to explore any possible avenue.
    Originally posted by MissPop
    Other than painting the house, you'd have done all those in a rented house. You may have rights to the dog.

    From https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/living-together-and-breaking

    "How the law treats any money you contributed to the home you lived in but donít own depends on what you and your ex agreed or understood between you. Was it a loan Ė to be repaid at an agreed date with or without interest as agreed? Was it a gift? Or was it a contribution which gives you a legal right called a beneficial interest?"

    "If you can prove that you have a beneficial interest (and this is often very difficult to do), this may allow you to get the right to live in the home, to prevent the sale of the home for a limited period of time, to pay the mortgage so as to prevent the home being repossessed or get a share from the proceeds of sale if the home is sold."
    Originally posted by MissPop
    No mention of wills in those words. Just the monetary contribution. You did say you thought you'd read that being mentioned in a will gave you rights.
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 10th Jul 18, 8:41 AM
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    PasturesNew
    .... he was happy for me to look after the house...
    Originally posted by MissPop
    To be fair, 98% of what you did you'd have had to do anyway if you'd lived alone - AND pay for it all.

    And I bet he did "some things", which you'd have not had the benefit of if you'd lived alone ... even if it was just removing spiders from the bath, cutting the lawn, putting the bins out, dealing with workmen and banging nails into walls.
    Last edited by PasturesNew; 10-07-2018 at 8:44 AM.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 10th Jul 18, 9:37 AM
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    getmore4less
    You need to read that section in the full context of the owner occupier situation and being a second non owner occupier.

    if you had evidence that that there was an implied or otherwise beneficial interest then the contents of the will could help back that intent up.

    I suspect that now he has changed his mind(about you) that is going to be a lot more difficult/impossible to follow up unless he cooperates.

    By putting you in the will that does show some intent but if the place was heavily mortgaged the reality is you would end up getting any equity but be responsible for sorting out the mortgage or selling.


    if you want to keep looking you need to get into the legal concepts of things like implied trusts and constructive trusts.
    • MissPop
    • By MissPop 10th Jul 18, 9:50 AM
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    MissPop
    You need to read that section in the full context of the owner occupier situation and being a second non owner occupier.

    if you had evidence that that there was an implied or otherwise beneficial interest then the contents of the will could help back that intent up.

    I suspect that now he has changed his mind(about you) that is going to be a lot more difficult/impossible to follow up unless he cooperates.

    By putting you in the will that does show some intent but if the place was heavily mortgaged the reality is you would end up getting any equity but be responsible for sorting out the mortgage or selling.


    if you want to keep looking you need to get into the legal concepts of things like implied trusts and constructive trusts.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    That was exactly what I meant when I mentioned the will, you hit the nail on the head Thank you for your reply, I know realistically nothing will come from it but to be honest it was a matter of curiosity more than anything.
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    • MissPop
    • By MissPop 10th Jul 18, 9:57 AM
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    MissPop
    To be fair, 98% of what you did you'd have had to do anyway if you'd lived alone - AND pay for it all.

    And I bet he did "some things", which you'd have not had the benefit of if you'd lived alone ... even if it was just removing spiders from the bath, cutting the lawn, putting the bins out, dealing with workmen and banging nails into walls.
    Originally posted by PasturesNew
    I literally did all those things Washed his pants, cleaned his beard trimmings from the bathroom sink, picked up snotty tissues left dotted around the house...

    Maybe I dodged a bullet
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    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 11th Jul 18, 11:37 AM
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    Indeed i think you did. Sounds like a slob and perhaps next time you wont put up with someone with personal habits like those.
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