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  • FIRST POST
    • the_philosopher
    • By the_philosopher 9th Jul 18, 8:28 PM
    • 6Posts
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    the_philosopher
    Confused about BT FTTP
    • #1
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:28 PM
    Confused about BT FTTP 9th Jul 18 at 8:28 PM
    Hello

    I'm about to move into a brand new house, provided by my employer. I'm very lucky to get such a thing I know!

    Apparently the housebuilder has had FTTP put in by BT. I phoned BT today, and they told me that this means that BT will be my only choice of broadband supplier. I asked them about how much it would cost per month, but they refused to discuss that with me until they know the status of the install from their engineers.

    I tried to search up FTTP prices online, but all I could find was a page detailing Openreach's wholesale prices. In order to use BT's usual method for getting quotes, I had to input my postcode, and my new house isn't on their system yet.

    So my question is, have BT told me right that I can't get broadband with any other provider? I thought monopolies on utilities were something from the 1970s, so is that definitely right? Will they have to open up to other suppliers at some future date? And if all this is indeed correct, does anyone have any clue how much they charge and/or where to find out online? And does anyone know what the speeds are like?

    Many thanks in advance and please accept my apologies if this has already been asked in some other form.

    Tom
Page 1
    • Neil Jones
    • By Neil Jones 9th Jul 18, 9:06 PM
    • 1,463 Posts
    • 886 Thanks
    Neil Jones
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 18, 9:06 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 18, 9:06 PM
    FTTP (Fibre to the Premises) is basically fibre internet only with an upgraded bit to improve the speed to your home.

    You can migrate to and from provider with this setup but its not as simple as it would be in a normal FTTC (Fibre to the Cabinet) setup. In the normal setup you pick a provider and they sort it all out. In an FTTP setup not all providers support it and most will not even notice on the "let us check your line" thing that you even have fibre at all.
    • Roland Sausage
    • By Roland Sausage 9th Jul 18, 9:24 PM
    • 560 Posts
    • 408 Thanks
    Roland Sausage
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 9:24 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 9:24 PM
    Openreach have opened FTTP up to other providers, however none of the normal residential suppliers seem interested in offering it at the moment. As well as BT Retail, there are a handful of business providers also offering service over FTTP.

    You can get the normal BT Infinity 1 and 2 packages (55/10 and 80/20) as well as the faster Infinity 3 and 4 (200/20 and 300/30). Not sure on prices as they don't really make them easy to find.
    • lee111s
    • By lee111s 9th Jul 18, 9:35 PM
    • 2,893 Posts
    • 1,967 Thanks
    lee111s
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 9:35 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 9:35 PM
    Openreach have opened FTTP up to other providers, however none of the normal residential suppliers seem interested in offering it at the moment. As well as BT Retail, there are a handful of business providers also offering service over FTTP.

    You can get the normal BT Infinity 1 and 2 packages (55/10 and 80/20) as well as the faster Infinity 3 and 4 (200/20 and 300/30). Not sure on prices as they don't really make them easy to find.
    Originally posted by Roland Sausage
    3 and 4 have been replaced with Ultrafast 1 and 2 now with connection speeds of 160/30 and 330/50

    AAISP, Zen and BT are the !!!8220;main!!!8221; suppliers of service over Openreach FTTP.
    Last edited by lee111s; 09-07-2018 at 9:38 PM.
    • Sarajw70
    • By Sarajw70 9th Jul 18, 9:37 PM
    • 2 Posts
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    Sarajw70
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 9:37 PM
    Anti competitive
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 9:37 PM
    We are just about to move into a brand new house. Today we have discovered that BT have put in fibre to the property. Great I thought .... until I discovered that the cost per month is £55/month for “upto 145 mgb”! My issue is that this forces us to sign up to BT! I get that they have to get the money back for the investment they’ve made - but how is £55 a good deal when virgin do 108 mgb for £29.99/month for fibre to the property??? And this essentially means that they can increase their prices and we have no option but to swallow them be cause we have no other choices ... we can’t vote with our feet and move to another provider!

    How is this fair to consumers? How is this fair competition ? What can we do?
    • Roland Sausage
    • By Roland Sausage 9th Jul 18, 9:43 PM
    • 560 Posts
    • 408 Thanks
    Roland Sausage
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 9:43 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 9:43 PM
    How is this fair competition ? What can we do?
    Originally posted by Sarajw70
    How is it anti competitive if it is available to other providers but they choose not to sell it?

    I suppose all you can do is nag your chosen provider until they decide to start offering it.
    • Roland Sausage
    • By Roland Sausage 9th Jul 18, 9:49 PM
    • 560 Posts
    • 408 Thanks
    Roland Sausage
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 18, 9:49 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 18, 9:49 PM
    3 and 4 have been replaced with Ultrafast 1 and 2 now with connection speeds of 160/30 and 330/50

    AAISP, Zen and BT are the !!!8220;main!!!8221; suppliers of service over Openreach FTTP.
    Originally posted by lee111s
    Ah right, ok. Didn't realise they had changed the product names. They still don't seem to make the prices easy to find though.

    I forgot about Zen and AAISP. They will sell FTTP to consumers, and at least they make their prices easier to find.
    • gsmlnx
    • By gsmlnx 9th Jul 18, 10:21 PM
    • 1,001 Posts
    • 773 Thanks
    gsmlnx
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 18, 10:21 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 18, 10:21 PM
    The up to date list of who sells Openreach (WBC) FTTP can always be found at
    https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/fibre-broadband/ultrafast-broadband/ultrafast-fibre-buy-it-now
    • iniltous
    • By iniltous 9th Jul 18, 11:31 PM
    • 1,667 Posts
    • 652 Thanks
    iniltous
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:31 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:31 PM
    We are just about to move into a brand new house. Today we have discovered that BT have put in fibre to the property. Great I thought .... until I discovered that the cost per month is £55/month for !!!8220;upto 145 mgb!!!8221;! My issue is that this forces us to sign up to BT! I get that they have to get the money back for the investment they!!!8217;ve made - but how is £55 a good deal when virgin do 108 mgb for £29.99/month for fibre to the property??? And this essentially means that they can increase their prices and we have no option but to swallow them be cause we have no other choices ... we can!!!8217;t vote with our feet and move to another provider!

    How is this fair to consumers? How is this fair competition ? What can we do?
    Originally posted by Sarajw70
    I find it remarkable, ( and depressing ) that when BT/Openreach get so much grief about the so called lack of 'full fibre' infrastructure from the media, the Government , Ofcom , and ISP's , that the OP and Sarajw, both have access to 'full fibre' but don't want it, or at least don't want to pay for it, they presumably would be happier with a copper pair and be able to use a 'cheap as chips' provider.

    As already stated, BT are not the only provider offering service over OR FTTP, but probably are the 'value' provider, compared to the other providers offering service over Openreach FTTP.
    The price that BT sell their 2 lower speed access on FTTP is the same price as FTTC , but the chances are that you would pay the 'list price' where as you probably could get a deal on the price of FTTC.

    If the lack of ISP's like Sky and Talk Talk offering access to FTTP over OR's infrastructure causes anyone to complain about lack of competition, it's something they should take up with Sky and TT, because they could if they wished to, offer their customers FTTP over OR infrastructure , but they chose not to...they would prefer to sweat their LLU assets , as they make more money out of a customer on that.
    Last edited by iniltous; 09-07-2018 at 11:41 PM.
    • Sarajw70
    • By Sarajw70 10th Jul 18, 7:05 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Sarajw70
    Hmmm as I said - I!!!8217;m more concerned about the fact that we are now locked in to a contract with BT for as long as we live in that house - they can raise their prices and there is naff all we can do about it!! And yes they have invested - they also been taking in £ms and £am in BDUK funding and ERDF funding to help with their funding! It!!!8217;s also the fact that it so much more expensive than virgin ?? When they are also Installing fibre to the property?
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 10th Jul 18, 8:04 AM
    • 4,562 Posts
    • 10,439 Thanks
    onomatopoeia99
    Hmmm as I said - I!!!8217;m more concerned about the fact that we are now locked in to a contract with BT for as long as we live in that house
    Originally posted by Sarajw70
    Why are you locked in? You could go to A&A or Zen.

    The fact that Sky, talktalk and all the other poundshop grade ISPs do not offer FTTP services is not the fault of BT.
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek.
    Home is where my books are.
    • StevieJ
    • By StevieJ 10th Jul 18, 10:18 AM
    • 19,380 Posts
    • 32,333 Thanks
    StevieJ
    I think Openreach have opened up telephone pole access access for FTTP for all suppliers. Is this easier installation going to open up competition?
    Government: "Should we get a pet?" 52%: "Yes" Government: "OK, we'll get a cat" 1/2 of 52%: "Oh no, I hate cats. I wanted a dog."
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 10th Jul 18, 1:50 PM
    • 3,711 Posts
    • 2,316 Thanks
    matelodave
    Plusnet also do FTTP although they dont actually advertise it.

    My neighbour has FTTP with them, since April this year
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    • cajef
    • By cajef 10th Jul 18, 2:17 PM
    • 4,842 Posts
    • 3,883 Thanks
    cajef
    Plusnet also do FTTP although they dont actually advertise it.
    Originally posted by matelodave
    It is only existing Plusnet cutomers who already have ADSL that can upgrade to FTTP if it available to them and at the moment it is only on a trial basis, I have had it with them for five years and still wondering when the trial will end and it will be offered to new customers.
    I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.
    • mije1983
    • By mije1983 10th Jul 18, 2:30 PM
    • 3,544 Posts
    • 20,262 Thanks
    mije1983
    still wondering when the trial will end and it will be offered to new customers.
    Originally posted by cajef

    Probably when they work out how to make more profitable than their current offerings

    • lee111s
    • By lee111s 10th Jul 18, 2:53 PM
    • 2,893 Posts
    • 1,967 Thanks
    lee111s
    I think Openreach have opened up telephone pole access access for FTTP for all suppliers. Is this easier installation going to open up competition?
    Originally posted by StevieJ
    Unlikely that another operator will install FTTP where Openreach have.

    Even if they do, most other FTTP installers only offer their service, they don’t have to wholesale it out like Openreach.

    The biggest driver for competition on Openreach FTTP is that they simply need to make it more widely available. Perhaps then Sky et al will feel it worthwhile their investment in systems and training upgrades for the potential revenu generated if enough customera take up the service.
    • iniltous
    • By iniltous 10th Jul 18, 8:26 PM
    • 1,667 Posts
    • 652 Thanks
    iniltous
    Hmmm as I said - I!!!8217;m more concerned about the fact that we are now locked in to a contract with BT for as long as we live in that house - they can raise their prices and there is naff all we can do about it!! And yes they have invested - they also been taking in £ms and £am in BDUK funding and ERDF funding to help with their funding! It!!!8217;s also the fact that it so much more expensive than virgin ?? When they are also Installing fibre to the property?
    Originally posted by Sarajw70
    As already said you are not locked into a BT contract, you could use any ISP that sells access over OR FTTP infrastructure , you could use mobile broadband , you could lobby VM to cable your street.
    I was until very recently paying VM for 70Mb standalone broadband £36/month, the current summer deal for 80Mb BT superfast BB is £40,( a product available on FTTP) ... ok it's more but not by much, and although that price does go up after 18 months, who knows what VM will be charging by then, or if a deal can be done when that term expires.
    It's unfair to compare VM and OR in some respects, the price OR can charge is heavily regulated by Ofcom, and pricing too low is seen by them as anti competitive, as the smaller FTTP alt nets wouldn't be happy if OR FTTP prices were so low that they couldn't make money out of their own networks, by having to match an artificially low OR price.
    VM are a network provider and ISP, and not regulated in any sustantial way by Ofcom, every penny spent by a VM customer on broadband is kept by VM's , whereas OR are the network provider and BT are an ISP, and have to treat each other as separate businesses , it all adds to the cost, which the consumer ultimately pays for
    Last edited by iniltous; 10-07-2018 at 8:34 PM.
    • littleboo
    • By littleboo 10th Jul 18, 9:19 PM
    • 596 Posts
    • 277 Thanks
    littleboo
    Hmmm as I said - I!!!8217;m more concerned about the fact that we are now locked in to a contract with BT for as long as we live in that house - they can raise their prices and there is naff all we can do about it!! And yes they have invested - they also been taking in £ms and £am in BDUK funding and ERDF funding to help with their funding! It!!!8217;s also the fact that it so much more expensive than virgin ?? When they are also Installing fibre to the property?
    Originally posted by Sarajw70
    It's Openreach that have made the investment, you are buying from BT Consumer, they haven't invested in the infrastructure. It's fortunate that BT Consumer do sell FTTP as without a major retailer taking it up there would be no point in Openreach investing in the first place. If the like of TalkTalk and Sky got involved, then maybe the retail price would come down, but they are quite happy to play politics by complaining about lack FTTP whilst refusing to sell it where its available.
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