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  • FIRST POST
    • atnewton
    • By atnewton 9th Jul 18, 8:08 PM
    • 1Posts
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    atnewton
    Seller lied in Property Information form
    • #1
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:08 PM
    Seller lied in Property Information form 9th Jul 18 at 8:08 PM
    I purchased a property at the end of may that was previously rented out and it has been in need of lots of work as the previous owner did not care about it at all, so I have not moved in yet. It's had plenty done now and I have not yet used the boiler at all. I had British Gas out this week to inspect the boiler and take it under their cover. Unfortunately, they have said it's not fit for them to cover it due to the issues it has and it's going to cost me over 1,500 to have the system fully repaired.

    I have reviewed the documents from when I purchased the property and the surveyors covered their back saying that the heating was off and they have not carried out any tests on the system and therefore cannot comment on it's serviceability or operation. However when reading through the surveyors report it states "Where visible the cold water installation appears satisfactory with no serious defect or obvious leakage" however there is a clear constant drip coming from the piping under the boiler which I believe should have been detected by the surveyors Is there anything. This is also true for the hot water pipes.
    The boiler is also beginning to come away from the wall and this is clearly visible from the side of it, but again was not reported in the report. Is there anything I can back to them on regarding these points?


    Onto the Law Society Property Information Form, filled in by the previous owner of the property. It states on Section 12.3c (Central Heating) "Is the heating system in good working order?" - The owner has ticked "Yes" however the central heating is not in a good working order as mentioned earlier by British Gas - The points of concern raised are:

    1) Discharge Pipe requires turning into wall
    2) Hot and cold pipes reversed (Hot feeding toilet)
    3) Pressure Vessel is Split
    4) System badly sludged
    5) Water Leak from Pipes

    The seller also provided a Gas Record Sheet from march 2017, by law this should be done every 12 months therefore there could be one from March 2018, right? (Dependant on when the previous tenants left.)


    Anyway, I am thinking of going back to Solicitors with these details and seeing if there is anything that they can do to help progress this/regain costs?

    Thanks, let me know if anything is unclear or need more information!
Page 1
    • ACG
    • By ACG 9th Jul 18, 8:13 PM
    • 17,500 Posts
    • 9,312 Thanks
    ACG
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:13 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:13 PM
    The gas safety check should be done every 12 months if the property is let out. If the tenants moved out in March 2018 or prior then no gas safety check was required - in any event, that would be down to the tenants to deal with not you. Although I will cover my back and say that is my understanding, I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong.

    In terms of everything else, the time to check the boiler was when you became the legal owner. It has been over a month since you completed, the vendor could argue when he/she sold it to you everything was fine and that any damage is since the sale completed - he said/she said.

    I think you are going to have to take this on the chin and move on.

    There will be people more qualified than I am who can answer your questions/concerns however.
    • jonnygee2
    • By jonnygee2 9th Jul 18, 8:21 PM
    • 308 Posts
    • 308 Thanks
    jonnygee2
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:21 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:21 PM
    and the surveyors covered their back
    Oh really? Quelle surprise!

    Anyway, I am thinking of going back to Solicitors with these details and seeing if there is anything that they can do to help progress this/regain costs?
    Your solicitors will gladly write letters etc for you, but first you have to think - would I actually risk taking this to court? Probably wouldn't be advised - it's less than 2k to fix and would be a complicated/risky court case.

    Generally, if you take on a property that you know needs work, I think its probably safer to factor in repairs to the plumbing. Your situation sucks a bit but could be a bit worse.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 9th Jul 18, 8:25 PM
    • 59,807 Posts
    • 53,152 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:25 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:25 PM
    I have reviewed the documents from when I purchased the property and the surveyors covered their back saying that the heating was off and they have not carried out any tests on the system and therefore cannot comment on it's serviceability or operation.
    Originally posted by atnewton
    Little point in reviewing the documentation now. Surveyors do not purport to be trained heating engineers. The information is provided for you, the purchaser, to make informed decisions.
    Financial disasters happen when the last person who can remember what went wrong last time has left the building.
    • kinger101
    • By kinger101 9th Jul 18, 8:36 PM
    • 4,466 Posts
    • 6,211 Thanks
    kinger101
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:36 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:36 PM
    I'd instantly dismiss anything British Gas have written as they have a reputation of condemning boilers so they can sell you a new one.

    The surveyor is not a heating engineer. They'll never really look at the system. You should have commissioned a report from a qualified person prior to the purchase if you were that concerned, rather than relying on a historic and out-of-date safety report.

    The vendor said the system worked. Nothing more. You've not confirmed whether it actually does.

    Given it seems pretty clear the system was old and in poor repair when you purchased, what do you expect to achieve if you take actions against the vendor? I expect even if the vendor has mislead you, the valuation of the house would be identical. You're not getting a new boiler out of it.
    • macman
    • By macman 9th Jul 18, 10:04 PM
    • 42,686 Posts
    • 17,953 Thanks
    macman
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 10:04 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 10:04 PM
    Those faults have nothing to do with the boiler itself. The reason BG have quoted you such a ludicrous amount is because they always tell you a powerflush is needed-and they charge twice what an independent would.
    The necessary repairs appear to involve a bit of work to modify the pipework, replacing the PV, and possibly flushing the system. Maybe 500 plus 100 parts at most from a local independent GSR engineer?
    As above, a surveyor is not any more qualified than you are to evaluate the condition of gas, water or electrical systems.
    It would be insane to spend 1500 to 'repair', when 2K would get you a new boiler installed (though not if you give your custom to BG).
    Last edited by macman; 09-07-2018 at 10:07 PM.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 9th Jul 18, 11:02 PM
    • 10,604 Posts
    • 12,136 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:02 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 18, 11:02 PM
    Onto the Law Society Property Information Form, filled in by the previous owner of the property. It states on Section 12.3c (Central Heating) "Is the heating system in good working order?" - The owner has ticked "Yes" however the central heating is not in a good working order as mentioned earlier by British Gas - The points of concern raised are:
    <snip>

    Anyway, I am thinking of going back to Solicitors with these details and seeing if there is anything that they can do to help progress this/regain costs?!
    Originally posted by atnewton
    The problem with this is that the owner, who is not an expert on CH systems (I assume !) said this. Why give it any credence? If you challenged the accuracy of that, his defence I am sure would be "I am not an expert, it looked OK to me, if you wanted an assurance you should have paid for a survey by a specialist that covered it"
    • Xplosivgas
    • By Xplosivgas 10th Jul 18, 12:23 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Xplosivgas
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 18, 12:23 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 18, 12:23 AM
    I had a very similar situation last year. I considered taking it to the small claims court but in the end decided it wasn't worth the added stress and time investment. I think it's best to bite the bullet and get a new boiler. You'll have a 5 year warranty and peace of mind - so although it's a kick in the teeth shelling out money on a boiler so soon, it's not money down the drain.
    • stator
    • By stator 10th Jul 18, 12:46 AM
    • 6,491 Posts
    • 4,358 Thanks
    stator
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 18, 12:46 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 18, 12:46 AM
    British Gas are the Kwik Fit of the Boiler industry. They will always find problems and they will always be expensive to repair, if not requiring a whole new boiler.

    In my opinion you've left it too late to make any complaints about the boiler. It's 3 months since you bought the house, you can't prove that the faults were there when the transaction completed, they might be new faults.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 10th Jul 18, 7:11 AM
    • 4,889 Posts
    • 3,122 Thanks
    csgohan4
    A good lesson to all, if their worried about the boiler, get an inspection before exchange
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
    • Rambosmum
    • By Rambosmum 10th Jul 18, 8:12 AM
    • 1,858 Posts
    • 2,359 Thanks
    Rambosmum
    All the owner has said is that it was working - they probably turned it on, it heated up the radiators and water = working. Beyond that, I'm not sure what you expect. They are not heating engineers, neither are you - when you come to sell the house I would assume you'll say it's working if the heating and hot water come on?
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 10th Jul 18, 9:13 AM
    • 1,080 Posts
    • 1,111 Thanks
    Margot123
    When buying any property, you have to assume that there will be issues.
    That's why you should always keep a sum of money for this, and have a contingency plan.

    Why not check if you are eligible for a heating grant, or money towards anything similar?
    It would be more constructive than chasing a civil claim that appears impossible.
    • InterestedParty2018
    • By InterestedParty2018 10th Jul 18, 5:03 PM
    • 119 Posts
    • 65 Thanks
    InterestedParty2018
    In short, it is unlikely you will have a water tight case (pun intended) for either the leak or the condition of the old boiler.

    The cost and hassle of pursuing this is going to be disproportionate (IMO) to the cost of the repair work.

    You knew the property was in general poor condition when you purchased it, so whilst doing it up, get yourself a new boiler. It will have a warranty and offer peace of mind for the future.
    • pavacava
    • By pavacava 10th Jul 18, 10:18 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    pavacava
    I know we are talking about an English house purchase but thought it would be useful for any Scottish buyers out there to know that they get 7 days (5 working days) to identify if any of the heating system or appliances are defective.


    It covers the heating, boilers, windows (they have to open and close but does not cover the glass) and any appliances. You need to make your claim via your solicitor by the 5th working day, otherwise you lose the right. You can claim for defects, but not upgardes, and the expense is covered by the previous seller. I'm not allowed to post links but this is covered here:morton-fraser.com/knowledge-hub/defects-systems-and-appliances-post-settlement


    After purchasing in both England and Scotland over the last decade, this is one of the few things I think the English system would benefit from adopting.
    • cloo
    • By cloo 11th Jul 18, 10:38 AM
    • 1,107 Posts
    • 1,115 Thanks
    cloo
    It's seldom worth the bother of chasing these things up, I afraid, you'll just have to repair/replace and move on. Good luck with sorting out the house.
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