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  • FIRST POST
    • MrBlackSapphire
    • By MrBlackSapphire 9th Jul 18, 7:28 PM
    • 3Posts
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    MrBlackSapphire
    Resin Driveway was installed badly
    • #1
    • 9th Jul 18, 7:28 PM
    Resin Driveway was installed badly 9th Jul 18 at 7:28 PM
    Hi all.

    Iím after some advice. I got a resin driveway installed in my front garden a few months ago and they did a really bad job. They were meant to dig out the old driveway and install base then a resin driveway, I had block paving before and they removed the blocks then put the resin on top of the sand/soil. Also when they were done they took some of my tools from my rear garden, these have now been returned. I complained then after a few weeks had passed by they agreed to sort it out, so they came round and laid more resin on top of what was already there and also this time a fire happened in my garden and the thing that was in fire was kicked into the corner and my white walls went black and one of my coping stones on the wall were smashed which dislodged all the others. The drive has problems all over it and parts are high then low and bits are breaking away after only a few weeks and they are saying they think itís a good job but itís really bad so Iím refusing to pay them the full price. They wanted 3600 and Iíve offered them 2000 but they refused and said they will knock off 100 only. Itís about 30 square meters. And advice welcome. I just want it sorted so I can move into the next project in the house, we have a 7 months old baby in the house and my partner is worried these guys will come one night and cause damage. Sorry for the super log post.
Page 1
    • Furts
    • By Furts 9th Jul 18, 8:04 PM
    • 4,450 Posts
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    Furts
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:04 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:04 PM
    I wonder what due diligence you did on the contractors. I wonder what Specification you drew up. I wonder what Contract you signed to. I wonder what terms of payment were agreed. I wonder what you did regarding safety, managing and inspecting the works. I wonder what financial protection you had - think by part paying on Credit Card.


    Over to you on all of this. If the answer is not positive then you may have a problem. Ford Transit trucks towing caravans comes to mind. If this is the case then you may want to contact the Police.



    Intimidation, extortion .. call it whatever. You may decide it better to pay up for a safe life and put all this down to experience. If the contractors are itinerant rogues then the golden rule has not changed in the last 100 years. This is do not get involved and you will have a peaceful life.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 9th Jul 18, 8:29 PM
    • 2,319 Posts
    • 1,420 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:29 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:29 PM
    I wonder what due diligence you did on the contractors. I wonder what Specification you drew up. I wonder what Contract you signed to. I wonder what terms of payment were agreed. I wonder what you did regarding safety, managing and inspecting the works. I wonder what financial protection you had - think by part paying on Credit Card.


    Over to you on all of this. If the answer is not positive then you may have a problem. Ford Transit trucks towing caravans comes to mind. If this is the case then you may want to contact the Police.



    Intimidation, extortion .. call it whatever. You may decide it better to pay up for a safe life and put all this down to experience. If the contractors are itinerant rogues then the golden rule has not changed in the last 100 years. This is do not get involved and you will have a peaceful life.
    Originally posted by Furts
    What's it got to do with the police?
    Hi there! Weíve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if youíre unsure why itís been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • MrBlackSapphire
    • By MrBlackSapphire 9th Jul 18, 8:31 PM
    • 3 Posts
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    MrBlackSapphire
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:31 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 8:31 PM
    Thatís a lot of wondering. The plans were drew up by the salesman and agreed by me and signed by both. Which says dig out old drive and install resins drive with pin curbs along both sides and the front. No pin curbs were put in and no dig out. Plus the colour is different than the sample they showed me. I havenít paid them yet cos I want it fixed but they have tried once and messed it up. They were to get cash by bank transfer from mine to theirs. But cos itís a mess Iím refusing to pay the full amount.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 9th Jul 18, 9:14 PM
    • 6,570 Posts
    • 17,625 Thanks
    EachPenny
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 9:14 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 9:14 PM
    Thatís a lot of wondering. The plans were drew up by the salesman and agreed by me and signed by both. Which says dig out old drive and install resins drive with pin curbs along both sides and the front. No pin curbs were put in and no dig out. Plus the colour is different than the sample they showed me. I havenít paid them yet cos I want it fixed but they have tried once and messed it up. They were to get cash by bank transfer from mine to theirs. But cos itís a mess Iím refusing to pay the full amount.
    Originally posted by MrBlackSapphire
    Was this 'salesman' one of at least three you contacted yourself and had round to look at the job and give you a quote, or was he someone who first arrived wearing a fluorescent jacket and mentioning something about a job they were doing for the Council down the road and they had some leftover resin on the back of the truck they were offering to lay for a substantial discount?

    If they dug out the old block paving then they have "dug out" - did the plans specify the depth they were going to dig and the depth of the sub-base and surfacing layer(s) they would lay?
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • MrBlackSapphire
    • By MrBlackSapphire 9th Jul 18, 10:28 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MrBlackSapphire
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 10:28 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 10:28 PM
    What on earth are you talking about? Iíll seek advice elsewhere guys and gals. Thanks for your time though.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 10th Jul 18, 7:24 AM
    • 4,450 Posts
    • 2,884 Thanks
    Furts
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 18, 7:24 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Jul 18, 7:24 AM
    Thatís a lot of wondering. The plans were drew up by the salesman and agreed by me and signed by both. Which says dig out old drive and install resins drive with pin curbs along both sides and the front. No pin curbs were put in and no dig out. Plus the colour is different than the sample they showed me. I havenít paid them yet cos I want it fixed but they have tried once and messed it up. They were to get cash by bank transfer from mine to theirs. But cos itís a mess Iím refusing to pay the full amount.
    Originally posted by MrBlackSapphire

    Forum folks are trying to determine if you have been scammed. It sounds like you have been. We are also trying to determine if you are doing business with travellers. If so, business operates on different rules here. The Police could be involved - they operate with scam aware schemes, this is linked in with NHW and they do what they can to get those responsible.


    A positive is you have something in writing. OK this is devoid of information - your fault here - but it contains enough. Simply the edgings were not installed. Now the negative - if it is signed, dated and witnessed then it is a help. However people change names and if challenged your contractors will likely deny your "plans" have anything to do with them.


    Your response has been to throw a polite strop. There is a risk of your car being damged, or any number of other eventualities. With £3200 owing I doubt your contractors will back off soon. Cross your fingers and hope they hitch up and move elsewhere.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 10th Jul 18, 8:09 AM
    • 15,972 Posts
    • 21,940 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 18, 8:09 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Jul 18, 8:09 AM
    What on earth are you talking about? Iíll seek advice elsewhere guys and gals. Thanks for your time though.
    Originally posted by MrBlackSapphire
    In order to help you, we need more details.

    Some driveway companies are actually travellers who do a botched job then demand money alongside threats.

    We therefore need to establish what sort of company you have used...

    How did you find this company? Word of mouth? Trade website? Or did they knock on your door?

    Do you have full contact details for this company e.g. a legitimate director, business address etc...?

    You need to WRITE to them stating what is wrong, then giving them say 21 days to complete the work agreed.

    I wouldn't pay any money yet. I would get a quote to put right the work by another (reputable) company, then if the original company do not complete the job, get the other company in and deduct it from what is owed to the first company.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • ciderboy2009
    • By ciderboy2009 10th Jul 18, 8:57 AM
    • 456 Posts
    • 409 Thanks
    ciderboy2009
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 18, 8:57 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Jul 18, 8:57 AM
    They wanted 3600 and Iíve offered them 2000 but they refused and said they will knock off 100 only. Itís about 30 square meters.
    Originally posted by MrBlackSapphire
    That price seems remarkably cheap - but it might depend on where you are.

    Based on recent quotes for my own drive (about the same size)I would have expected £10k - £12k for 30square metres here in the South West.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 10th Jul 18, 10:05 AM
    • 4,450 Posts
    • 2,884 Thanks
    Furts
    That price seems remarkably cheap - but it might depend on where you are.

    Based on recent quotes for my own drive (about the same size)I would have expected £10k - £12k for 30square metres here in the South West.
    Originally posted by ciderboy2009

    But when one ponders this is crazy expenditure. The drive could be block paved. As with everything there are cheap and dubious pavers, but lets focus on decent quality pavers. These can be purchased for under £700. So why pay £10-12K for resin? All the more so when often resin is a risky cowboy product laid by cowboys companies - unlike block paving.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 10th Jul 18, 10:19 AM
    • 4,450 Posts
    • 2,884 Thanks
    Furts
    In order to help you, we need more details.

    Some driveway companies are actually travellers who do a botched job then demand money alongside threats.

    We therefore need to establish what sort of company you have used...

    How did you find this company? Word of mouth? Trade website? Or did they knock on your door?

    Do you have full contact details for this company e.g. a legitimate director, business address etc...?

    You need to WRITE to them stating what is wrong, then giving them say 21 days to complete the work agreed.

    I wouldn't pay any money yet. I would get a quote to put right the work by another (reputable) company, then if the original company do not complete the job, get the other company in and deduct it from what is owed to the first company.
    Originally posted by pinkshoes

    All good worthy genuine advice. However of debatable use dealing with OP's contractors. There is are two blinding obvious flaw with what has happened to OP.



    The first was allowing a "salesman" to design and specify the works. Roads and footpaths take the same vehicle loadings from vans, small lorries and cars but these are designed and specified by Civil Engineers. Indeed, there are particular problems with drives, so this needs an extra Civil Engineering appraisal. Nobody expects a "salesman" to be a qualified Civil Engineer, so nobody expects a "salesman" to be competent to design a drive.



    Second the skill,, excavation, and expenditure is incurred in laying the edgings. These were "omitted" first time round. They were also "omitted" second time round when the contractors returned to rectify the works - no surprise there! This "omission" (representing a major piece of the work) has been valued the contractors at just £100. Which of course is taking the pee wee.


    All round OP's experience has the typical signs of cowboy, travelling contractors.
    • Head The Ball
    • By Head The Ball 10th Jul 18, 1:53 PM
    • 3,459 Posts
    • 9,001 Thanks
    Head The Ball
    That price seems remarkably cheap - but it might depend on where you are.

    Based on recent quotes for my own drive (about the same size)I would have expected £10k - £12k for 30square metres here in the South West.
    Originally posted by ciderboy2009
    That is nearly £400 per sq metre.

    A quick google suggests £40 upwards per sq metre.
    Every Village has its Idiot.

    If you don't know who your Village Idiot is

    it is probably you.
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 10th Jul 18, 3:24 PM
    • 3,160 Posts
    • 4,241 Thanks
    George Michael
    That is nearly £400 per sq metre.

    A quick google suggests £40 upwards per sq metre.
    Originally posted by Head The Ball
    Using the link supplied, that's about £40 per square metre for jobs in excess of 100 sq metres and that price is only for pouring and finishing the resin on an already suitable base.

    If you are talking about removing an old driveway and laying a base, I'm sure that the labour charges will increase that £40 pm considerably.
    IMO, it's probably a bit like companies who advertise an item or service "from" £xx, knowing full well that in all reality there are very few, if any people who will end up paying this rate.
    • JohnB47
    • By JohnB47 10th Jul 18, 3:40 PM
    • 1,135 Posts
    • 368 Thanks
    JohnB47
    Just for info - every time I've seen this done locally to me, the base has consisted of a layer of around 4 inch thick concrete.

    This site gives advice. The recommendations for the base suggest a layer of something called MOT type 1, then a layer of concrete or tarmac. Putting the top coat directly on sand/soil seems shoddy to me.

    http://www.resindrivesadvice.co.uk/resin-bound-install-guide
    • Head The Ball
    • By Head The Ball 10th Jul 18, 4:43 PM
    • 3,459 Posts
    • 9,001 Thanks
    Head The Ball
    Using the link supplied, that's about £40 per square metre for jobs in excess of 100 sq metres and that price is only for pouring and finishing the resin on an already suitable base.

    If you are talking about removing an old driveway and laying a base, I'm sure that the labour charges will increase that £40 pm considerably.
    IMO, it's probably a bit like companies who advertise an item or service "from" £xx, knowing full well that in all reality there are very few, if any people who will end up paying this rate.
    Originally posted by George Michael
    Agreed, hence why I wrote £40 upwards.

    I find it hard to believe that it would reasonably increase to £400 per sg metre.

    We recently had a 110 sg metre rear garden completely renovated. The whole area was excavated, about 70 sq metres of Marshalls Sandstone paving laid on top of compacted MOT1, gravel borders, artificial grass etc.

    The final bill was about £12,000, or about £110 per sq metre.

    What can possibly justify £400 per sq metre?
    Last edited by Head The Ball; 10-07-2018 at 5:40 PM.
    Every Village has its Idiot.

    If you don't know who your Village Idiot is

    it is probably you.
    • ciderboy2009
    • By ciderboy2009 11th Jul 18, 12:21 PM
    • 456 Posts
    • 409 Thanks
    ciderboy2009
    Agreed, hence why I wrote £40 upwards.

    I find it hard to believe that it would reasonably increase to £400 per sg metre.

    We recently had a 110 sg metre rear garden completely renovated. The whole area was excavated, about 70 sq metres of Marshalls Sandstone paving laid on top of compacted MOT1, gravel borders, artificial grass etc.

    The final bill was about £12,000, or about £110 per sq metre.

    What can possibly justify £400 per sq metre?
    Originally posted by Head The Ball
    To give some more info on my quotes - the old driveway was concrete laid directly onto the soil so there was a fair bit of digging out to do.

    The quotes were to dig out, add a soakaway/ drain etc, , a significant depth of hardcore, stone dust on top of that and then the actual surface.

    The quotes we received were all around the same values from the half dozen or so companies we called in:

    Blocks - £6k
    Tarmac - £8k
    Resin - £10k

    We ended up having the work done last week in blocks. It took 4 men 3 days of non-stop working to do it. Laying the actual blocks only took a couple of hours of this!
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