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  • FIRST POST
    • mantic70
    • By mantic70 9th Jul 18, 4:06 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 0Thanks
    mantic70
    Constructive Dismissal
    • #1
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:06 PM
    Constructive Dismissal 9th Jul 18 at 4:06 PM
    Hi All
    My first ever post, looking for some guidance if possible.
    A colleague of mine is leaving the company, he has been working 2 months notice and i was asked to shadow him for 2 months to learn the role and take it on when he goes.
    I was asked to apply for the role internally which I done, I noticed that it was advertised externally too, one of the external applicants had their telephone interview the day before me which I found strange. I was told that my telephone interview was successful and would progress to a face to face interview, I was then told 3 days before my face to face interview that the external applicant was successfull and no need to attend interview. wow that cant be right can it?
Page 1
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 9th Jul 18, 4:10 PM
    • 11,175 Posts
    • 9,532 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:10 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:10 PM
    I was then told 3 days before my face to face interview that the external applicant was successfull and no need to attend interview. wow that cant be right can it?
    Originally posted by mantic70
    Why not ?
    • custardy
    • By custardy 9th Jul 18, 4:12 PM
    • 34,142 Posts
    • 29,019 Thanks
    custardy
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:12 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:12 PM
    and wheres the dismissal come from?
    • stator
    • By stator 9th Jul 18, 4:19 PM
    • 6,598 Posts
    • 4,440 Thanks
    stator
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:19 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:19 PM
    Certainly they should have gone ahead with both interviews that were already arranged, but I don't think they've done anything illegal.

    Put in a formal grievance/complaint about the way the interviews were handled.

    Have you already quit? I don't see much grounds for a constructive dismissal complaint, unless there are other circumstances you've not outlined?
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • mantic70
    • By mantic70 9th Jul 18, 4:20 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mantic70
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:20 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:20 PM
    because the process was not complete, if you are an expert on employment law I will back down and thank you for your input if you are just guessing and don't really know if this is legally correct please don't comment as I am looking for expert advice
    • mantic70
    • By mantic70 9th Jul 18, 4:25 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mantic70
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:25 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:25 PM
    Thanks for that
    No I have not quit...yet
    I thought the following procedure had to follow points

    advertise internally and if no suitable candidate then advertise externally
    Complete the interview process before informing candidates.
    maybe I'm just old fashioned
    • bigisi
    • By bigisi 9th Jul 18, 4:26 PM
    • 425 Posts
    • 762 Thanks
    bigisi
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:26 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:26 PM
    please don't comment as I am looking for expert advice
    Originally posted by mantic70
    You pay for "expert" advice. If you post on a forum anybody can reply with opinions/advice regardless of their expertise (or lack of). If you only want "expert advice" go pay an employment solicitor.
    • mantic70
    • By mantic70 9th Jul 18, 4:28 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mantic70
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:28 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:28 PM
    maybe I should have said someone with experience in this situation,
    • HappyHarry
    • By HappyHarry 9th Jul 18, 4:36 PM
    • 797 Posts
    • 1,163 Thanks
    HappyHarry
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:36 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 18, 4:36 PM
    Thanks for that
    No I have not quit...yet
    I thought the following procedure had to follow points

    advertise internally and if no suitable candidate then advertise externally
    Complete the interview process before informing candidates.
    maybe I'm just old fashioned
    Originally posted by mantic70
    That would be the ideal procedure.

    However, there's nothing legally stopping a company interviewing somebody and immediately offering them the job prior to completing other interviews. There can be good reasons to do so, e.g. the first interviewee has another job lined up and won't wait for the entire process to finish.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser. Any comments I make here are intended for information / discussion only. Nothing I post here should be construed as advice. If you are looking for individual financial advice, please contact a local Independent Financial Adviser.
    • peachyprice
    • By peachyprice 9th Jul 18, 4:41 PM
    • 19,890 Posts
    • 46,040 Thanks
    peachyprice
    Thanks for that
    No I have not quit...yet
    I thought the following procedure had to follow points

    advertise internally and if no suitable candidate then advertise externally
    Complete the interview process before informing candidates.
    maybe I'm just old fashioned
    Originally posted by mantic70
    A quick google would have told you that you thought wrong.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
    • polgara
    • By polgara 9th Jul 18, 4:43 PM
    • 379 Posts
    • 353 Thanks
    polgara
    Ok - as you've been told there is an ideal procedure and then there is the reality.

    Re constructive dismissal:

    1. You would need to resign citing that this was such a breach of your contract that you have no choice but to leave
    2. You would need to submit your case to the Employment Tribunal
    3. Constructive dismissal means the onus is on you to demonstrate why this was such a breach (hint - its not)

    Easier way to handle it is talk to the recruiting manager and say how you'd like to still shadow etc and would look forward to helping the new person settle in...oh and you are still interested in developing further
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 9th Jul 18, 5:10 PM
    • 11,175 Posts
    • 9,532 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    It would be interesting to know why the company offered the job to the external candidate, before interviewing OP. I do have an opinion on this.
    • LilElvis
    • By LilElvis 9th Jul 18, 5:23 PM
    • 3,898 Posts
    • 10,561 Thanks
    LilElvis
    It would be interesting to know why the company offered the job to the external candidate, before interviewing OP. I do have an opinion on this.
    Originally posted by lincroft1710
    My guess would be that they have offered the job to someone who has more experience in the role than the OP who only has a few weeks of shadowing the current incumbent.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 9th Jul 18, 6:18 PM
    • 2,903 Posts
    • 2,882 Thanks
    steampowered
    There is no legal requirement on an employer to give priority to internal candidates.

    Generally speaking, an employer can hire anybody they like for a particular job and follow any hiring process they like.

    he only exception would be that the employer can't have a hiring process which breaches law - for example they can't follow a recruitment process which discriminates against a protected characteristic such as age, race or gender.

    It doesn't sound like you have any legal comeback. The employer is perfectly entitled to decide it prefers the external candidate. You are of course entitled to take that up with your manager or to search for another job if you feel that you should be considered for promotion.
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 9th Jul 18, 6:19 PM
    • 3,407 Posts
    • 1,785 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    It is bad manners and sorry for you OP but I am going to come at from another angle if I may.

    I found myself on rather short notice last week and would have needed to let my trial day go, for a role I had gotten quite far with, on calling the company when learning what was going on and to benefit both parties I was straight away offered the job. Dumping the trial. I was very appreciative in the situation as imagined, so perhaps in your case they couldn!!!8217;t turn down someone unemployed and ready to start, for example, knowing you would turn into a replace and if that isn!!!8217;t easy to get signed off in these times...

    Could be the external candidate needed a job quickly and they have simply beat you by notice period. They may not not even like the job or find it!!!8217;s the right fit for them, you never know.

    Furthermore, I was told a couple of weeks ago by the client intimating I wasn!!!8217;t going to be around for much longer in the present job when really it should have been up to my employer to tell me, but no do you really think I could air that one. Without a lot of grief. After writing my notice I was then thanked for my understanding of the situation when I!!!8217;d asked them about no less then 4 times previously to get to the point of finding out was I going and how long had I got so sometimes there are things you have to let go.

    Employers can change the recruitment process anytime, would you rather have gone through an interview and then !!!8216;be let down!!!8217;? Another one was a company got me to interview and then hours after, released to the press, that ohhh, there was to be 60 redundancies so again glad I was an unsuccessful candidate to right! One of those times when things happen for the best.
    Last edited by keepcalmandstayoutofdebt; 09-07-2018 at 6:21 PM. Reason: .
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 9th Jul 18, 6:41 PM
    • 11,175 Posts
    • 9,532 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    My guess would be that they have offered the job to someone who has more experience in the role than the OP who only has a few weeks of shadowing the current incumbent.
    Originally posted by LilElvis
    You have put it slightly more politely than I would have done
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 9th Jul 18, 6:56 PM
    • 6,858 Posts
    • 14,933 Thanks
    marliepanda
    It maybe that the external candidate performed very well at their phone interview, and you performed poorly in comparison.

    Then took you both to face to face just in case external person flubbed the face to face and you did well. Then external person did well at face to face so they knew you would never stack up as external did really well at both, so saved you the hassle of interviewing for a job when you were too far behind based on your phone interview.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 9th Jul 18, 7:11 PM
    • 5,640 Posts
    • 9,739 Thanks
    sangie595
    Hi All
    My first ever post, looking for some guidance if possible.
    A colleague of mine is leaving the company, he has been working 2 months notice and i was asked to shadow him for 2 months to learn the role and take it on when he goes.
    I was asked to apply for the role internally which I done, I noticed that it was advertised externally too, one of the external applicants had their telephone interview the day before me which I found strange. I was told that my telephone interview was successful and would progress to a face to face interview, I was then told 3 days before my face to face interview that the external applicant was successfull and no need to attend interview. wow that cant be right can it?
    Originally posted by mantic70
    Wow, yes it can.

    You can't be dismissed from a job that you don't have. Since you never had the job, it's not any form of dismissal.

    Given that you had been shadowing the role for two months, and the employer decided to go to external recruitment anyway, then I'm afraid the writing was on the wall in rather clear writing. They had no intention of offering you the position unless they had no other choice; and they had, after those two months, no confidence in your ability to do the job. I can't comment on whether that is a fair assessment or not, but it's a rather clear one. You may wish to consider your future with this employer if that is their assessment of you, as it might suggest that your chances for promotion may be rather limited. Sorry to be blunt about it, but the circumstances don't leave a lot to the imagination. If they needed to rush the interviews, you are an internal candidate- they could have called toy in with virtually no notice, and given the fact you'd been shadowing at their request you should have aced an interview. The fact they didn't even give you an interview and appointed without doing so, even though you'd been offered one, suggests that they already knew they didn't want you in the post, and you'd have been a last choice. That may not be a fair assessment, but there aren't many ways to interpret this course of events - so if this is how they think of you now, that may be how they continue to think of you in the future.

    The best way to "get them back" is to get a better job and then succeed at it.
    • stator
    • By stator 9th Jul 18, 8:27 PM
    • 6,598 Posts
    • 4,440 Thanks
    stator
    It maybe that the external candidate performed very well at their phone interview, and you performed poorly in comparison.

    Then took you both to face to face just in case external person flubbed the face to face and you did well. Then external person did well at face to face so they knew you would never stack up as external did really well at both, so saved you the hassle of interviewing for a job when you were too far behind based on your phone interview.
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    Pretty stupid in my opinion.

    Cancelling the interview with the internal candidate is obviously going to annoy them, it's a huge snub and not the way you should treat your staff.

    It would have been much better to hold both interviews and then just explain to the internal candidate that they decided to go with the candidate with more experience. That way there are no hard feelings. That's the professional way to do it.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 9th Jul 18, 9:12 PM
    • 6,858 Posts
    • 14,933 Thanks
    marliepanda
    Pretty stupid in my opinion.

    Cancelling the interview with the internal candidate is obviously going to annoy them, it's a huge snub and not the way you should treat your staff.

    It would have been much better to hold both interviews and then just explain to the internal candidate that they decided to go with the candidate with more experience. That way there are no hard feelings. That's the professional way to do it.
    Originally posted by stator
    We get a lot of people on here complaining they wasted time and energy on interviews they had no chance of getting.

    Now you’re saying companies should just waste everyone’s time even when they have no hope of the job so there’s no hard feelings...

    I’d rather someone be straight with me than string me along.
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