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  • FIRST POST
    • nnb
    • By nnb 9th Jul 18, 2:44 PM
    • 53Posts
    • 7Thanks
    nnb
    'Landlord only' storage being added to rental property
    • #1
    • 9th Jul 18, 2:44 PM
    'Landlord only' storage being added to rental property 9th Jul 18 at 2:44 PM
    My LL has announced an enormous shed is being put on my property. This was mentioned in my tenancy agreement so I was aware this would happen and I realise I have no choice. The problem is what I've since found out...

    When I was notified it's going in, I mentioned how I don't need the shed so do they want to save the hassle and just forget about it. I was told it's not for my use anyway... It's for theirs! My tenancy clearly states I will have use of it, and there is no mention anywhere that it would be used by anyone other than me. There is also a section about shared areas, and there are no areas listed. So as far as I am aware, the entire property is for my sole use as is the forthcoming shed.

    Where do I stand on this as it's not what was in my agreement?
    Is adding in extra storage AFTER I've moved in purely for their personal use allowed?
    Can I still request access to it?
    Surely this causes all kind of issues with accessing the property as they and others will be coming and going whenever to access it?
    Does it break my 'right to quiet enjoyment' if nothing else? He's already been on the property unannounced to measure up which scared the life out of me.
    As I guess it will be going in anyway, will the 24 hour rule apply here too?
    What if they want to access it at unusual hours, eg 6am or 9pm, am I allowed to state times he can access it so I can enjoy my property/garden?

    I absolutely love living here and have been told they're happy with me being here too so we both see this as a long term let. We have a great relationship so I'm really not trying to be difficult, I just don't feel comfortable with this whole thing (especially as I'm a female living alone) and want to find a way to solve any potential issues beforehand and have it in writing so we both know where we stand and can carry on with our otherwise great LL/tenant agreement!
Page 1
    • m0bov
    • By m0bov 9th Jul 18, 2:53 PM
    • 1,373 Posts
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    m0bov
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 18, 2:53 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jul 18, 2:53 PM
    The LL should not be at the property unannouced, you have exclusive use, its YOUR home. You are not a second rate citizen.

    He can give you 24 hours notice, but he has no right of entry. I would change the locks and any external pad locks or gate locks at once. Keep the originals.

    You need to point out to the LL that they surrounded use of the property when they rented it out.

    What does the EXACT wording of your contract say about the shed? Could it be for trade use?
    • cooltt
    • By cooltt 9th Jul 18, 2:55 PM
    • 604 Posts
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    cooltt
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 2:55 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jul 18, 2:55 PM
    As Above he has no right to build sheds anywhere on your property while it's being rented.

    You can and should (quite rightly) refuse but expect to be asked to leave earlier than you'd hoped.
    • m0bov
    • By m0bov 9th Jul 18, 2:58 PM
    • 1,373 Posts
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    m0bov
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 2:58 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jul 18, 2:58 PM
    Long term he will get what he wants, turning up should be at a mutucally agreed time. Could you work out a time when he comes and goes, i.e. 2-4 sunday pm and Monday pm? etc.. Is there access to the shed from a side gate or is it only via the front door? If its the front door, then its a big no no.
    • nnb
    • By nnb 9th Jul 18, 2:58 PM
    • 53 Posts
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    nnb
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 2:58 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Jul 18, 2:58 PM
    The LL should not be at the property unannouced, you have exclusive use, its YOUR home. You are not a second rate citizen.

    He can give you 24 hours notice, but he has no right of entry. I would change the locks and any external pad locks or gate locks at once. Keep the originals.

    You need to point out to the LL that they surrounded use of the property when they rented it out.

    What does the EXACT wording of your contract say about the shed? Could it be for trade use?
    Originally posted by m0bov
    Hiya, there is a section about common parts, stating what is included eg gardens, sheds, whether it's furnished etc. It says "access to shed when fitted".

    It later goes on to 'shared parts' and nothing (property, garden or other) is ticked as being shared.
    • m0bov
    • By m0bov 9th Jul 18, 2:59 PM
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    m0bov
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 2:59 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jul 18, 2:59 PM
    Do you live on your own (not lodger)? Is there communal parts? Is it a flat or maisonette?
    • nnb
    • By nnb 9th Jul 18, 3:01 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    nnb
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 18, 3:01 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Jul 18, 3:01 PM
    As Above he has no right to build sheds anywhere on your property while it's being rented.

    You can and should (quite rightly) refuse but expect to be asked to leave earlier than you'd hoped.
    Originally posted by cooltt
    I think they can though as it is in my tenancy agreement that there would be one fitted during my time here?


    Also, to answer someone else's question, I don't know if it's for commercial or personal use but I do know they'll be building materials in it amongst other things. Which already screams "please break in and rob me" to passers by.

    The shed can be accessed without entiering the house.
    • m0bov
    • By m0bov 9th Jul 18, 3:05 PM
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    m0bov
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 18, 3:05 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Jul 18, 3:05 PM
    Having read the thread again, I can't see how your going to win this one with the LL attitude, he forgets its not his home.

    I'd call him, have a polite chat and say your happy with the shed, but your not allowing access to the property except for statury inspections. (gas safety, ll checks) and that the ll use of the shed spoils your quite enjoyment of your home. If he does'nt come around then put it in writing but expect to start looking for a new home. ( I'd still change the locks NOW!
    • m0bov
    • By m0bov 9th Jul 18, 3:06 PM
    • 1,373 Posts
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    m0bov
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 18, 3:06 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jul 18, 3:06 PM
    I think they can though as it is in my tenancy agreement that there would be one fitted during my time here?


    Also, to answer someone else's question, I don't know if it's for commercial or personal use but I do know they'll be building materials in it amongst other things. Which already screams "please break in and rob me" to passers by.

    The shed can be accessed without entiering the house.
    Originally posted by nnb
    In that case, can you ask him to put in writing some agreed times of access? Then leave them to it? But state you can withdraw your permission at anytime.
    • lookstraightahead
    • By lookstraightahead 9th Jul 18, 3:19 PM
    • 405 Posts
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    lookstraightahead
    I remember years ago moving into a flat in London. There were the owners children's nappies still in the bin, food in the freezer. And the shower room had been disconnected to use as storage with all their stuff in it. They had decided that 'furnished' meant they could leave all their horrible little nicknacks around and we were welcome to read their books. We put up with it as we were young. When we left they tried to charge us for a small stain on a mattress. It was only their niece who talked them out of it.

    They were greedy and unreliable and felt superior. It's people like that who give good decent landlords a bad name. I'm not sure why some landlords think it's still their home and tenants are just cash cows.
    • nnb
    • By nnb 9th Jul 18, 3:32 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    nnb
    I remember years ago moving into a flat in London. There were the owners children's nappies still in the bin, food in the freezer. And the shower room had been disconnected to use as storage with all their stuff in it. They had decided that 'furnished' meant they could leave all their horrible little nicknacks around and we were welcome to read their books. We put up with it as we were young. When we left they tried to charge us for a small stain on a mattress. It was only their niece who talked them out of it.

    They were greedy and unreliable and felt superior. It's people like that who give good decent landlords a bad name. I'm not sure why some landlords think it's still their home and tenants are just cash cows.
    Originally posted by lookstraightahead
    I used to rent a room in a shared house, where the LL changed the lounge into a bedroom and used one of the upstairs bedrooms as storage and the dining room as his business premises, we also couldn't use the garden, attic or garage. He thought it was fine and was okay to have people coming and going at all hours and even standing in our kitchen so we couldn't cook. Also, there was no lock on the bathroom which was fun...! He also felt it was fine for him to use my small appliances and plates/tea etc and access my room to get loo roll when his daughter used the toilet and there was none in there. We also weren't allowed access to the heating switch and he would stand there shivering while wearing numerous layers so how did he think we felt?! He also spent my deposit while on holiday...... I'd never agree to that again and didn't stay there long.

    Really don't like LLs like that. My current one is NOTHING like that normally and does try to make the place comfortable and help me out. I honestly don't feel like he's using me as a cash cow (even if he technically is), I think he just hasn't really thought this through and we can totally come to a reasonable agreement that makes us both happy. I just needed to know what is and isn't reasonable/allowed before we sit down and talk it out
    Last edited by nnb; 09-07-2018 at 3:34 PM.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 9th Jul 18, 3:47 PM
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    Cakeguts
    When you rent a house the house and the garden become yours for the length of the tenancy. There is no difference between you and someone who has bought the house. So what you have here is very like this. The previous owner of a house that you had bought had put into the contract that they were going to bring along a large shed and install it in YOUR garden.



    You do not have a good landlord. You have a rogue landlord who chooses not to stick to the rules on letting property.



    The house and the garden is yours to enjoy while you have a tenancy agreement. The landlord in not allowed to install a shed of any sort in your garden if you don't want him to. It doesn't matter what it says in the tenancy agreement if it isn't there at the start of the agreement it can't arrive later. Your landlord doesn't seem to understand either that if he puts the shed in your garden he can't access it either because he doesn't have permission to be in your garden. If he can't access it he can't put anything into it.



    You get to decide what you want to do in this situation. Your landlord doesn't have any rights.


    BAD landlords with this kind of attitude really annoy me and I am a landlord. I wouldn't dream of doing this to any of our tenants. The garden is yours he has no right to stop you from using all of it by putting a shed.
    • nnb
    • By nnb 9th Jul 18, 3:54 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    nnb
    In your shoes, some things I'd be bearing in mind are:

    1) If he needs the storage and you've got the space then he's going to want to get his hands on it whether you're there or not. How long is your contract? How keen are you to stay there? How easily will he find another tenant?

    2) Having seen landlord storage in action, whether written in the contract or not, it can be an open door. In fact sometimes I've got the impression it's been deliberately written into the contract as an anticipated excuse to visit.

    3) I'd look into my insurance and I'd be worried about the safety risk. Storage units attract attention. I'd be playing this one up if I were you.

    4) Landlord storage on site will be a deal breaker for many. That's going to impact his rent. Would he consider a reduction?
    I often see a very good price rental lingering on the market in my area and I know to look for an attic, barn or garage that the landlord is reserving for himself. So many people immediately rule out a property when they see this. You could try mentioning this to him because it is going to impact future tenant demand. Does he really want that?
    Originally posted by Quizzical Squirrel
    Thanks for your post!

    1. As I mentioned, we're both looking for it to be long term. I've already been here a while. To be honest, if I'm not in technically I don't care if he goes into it. Obviously not my house though. I think it would get a lot of interest if he looked for a new tenant but once that massive thing goes in AND they can't use it, people will likely lose interest.

    2. There's no mention anywhere of landlord storage. If anything, it's all worded so it says he has no storage! He doesn't have to enter the house to access it so he doesn't get anything out of it in that sense.

    3. Yes, this is a huge worry for me. It screams 'come rob me' if people know what's in it (building stuff) which makes me wonder if it's an invite to rob my house too. I have also read that it may affect council tax? Like I can request he pay some of it if he's using my property too? I don't know how true that is? I'm also worried it might go UP if someone reports it and they decide it's business use?

    4. I actually have a really good deal on rent, he's charging me the bottom end of the scale for local houses - it's anything from what I pay up to 200-300 more depending on exact location, condition etc! I'm getting a really good deal for what I get.
    • nnb
    • By nnb 9th Jul 18, 3:57 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    nnb
    When you rent a house the house and the garden become yours for the length of the tenancy. There is no difference between you and someone who has bought the house. So what you have here is very like this. The previous owner of a house that you had bought had put into the contract that they were going to bring along a large shed and install it in YOUR garden.

    You do not have a good landlord. You have a rogue landlord who chooses not to stick to the rules on letting property.

    The house and the garden is yours to enjoy while you have a tenancy agreement. The landlord in not allowed to install a shed of any sort in your garden if you don't want him to. It doesn't matter what it says in the tenancy agreement if it isn't there at the start of the agreement it can't arrive later. Your landlord doesn't seem to understand either that if he puts the shed in your garden he can't access it either because he doesn't have permission to be in your garden. If he can't access it he can't put anything into it.

    You get to decide what you want to do in this situation. Your landlord doesn't have any rights.

    BAD landlords with this kind of attitude really annoy me and I am a landlord. I wouldn't dream of doing this to any of our tenants. The garden is yours he has no right to stop you from using all of it by putting a shed.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    Cheers for your comments This really is the first time I have had any kind of issue at all in this property and if anything he's always gone the extra mile to make sure I am happy here. This is why I think he's just not realising what he's doing rather than purposely taking the mickey. I really really love living here so I don't want this to ruin it, I really want to find the best way to sort it without causing any arguments.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 9th Jul 18, 4:02 PM
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    Cakeguts
    Cheers for your comments This really is the first time I have had any kind of issue at all in this property and if anything he's always gone the extra mile to make sure I am happy here. This is why I think he's just not realising what he's doing rather than purposely taking the mickey. I really really love living here so I don't want this to ruin it, I really want to find the best way to sort it without causing any arguments.
    Originally posted by nnb

    He isn't going the extra mile now. He is trying to break the rules. If he doesn't realise what he is doing he shouldn't be a landlord. Do you have a gas safety certificate? Is your deposit protected?
    • CIS
    • By CIS 9th Jul 18, 4:25 PM
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    CIS
    It potentially causes issues for council tax for the landlord - if the tenancy agreement is not for the whole property then the issues confirmed in Goremsandu may well apply and the property would fall to be a council tax HMO in that case (I've seen cases where rooms inside are excluded but it should equally apply to the whole property)
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax paralegal. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • nnb
    • By nnb 9th Jul 18, 4:32 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    nnb
    It potentially causes issues for council tax for the landlord - if the tenancy agreement is not for the whole property then the issues confirmed in Goremsandu may well apply and the property would fall to be a council tax HMO in that case (I've seen cases where rooms inside are excluded but it should equally apply to the whole property)
    Originally posted by CIS
    I did question tax a few posts ago. He doesn't have access to the house itself, just something in the garden. It's also for storage not occupation. Do you know if that would still mean he's partially liable or if it changes the price? I don't understand council tax at the best of times! Thanks
    • CIS
    • By CIS 9th Jul 18, 4:43 PM
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    CIS
    I did question tax a few posts ago. He doesn't have access to the house itself, just something in the garden. It's also for storage not occupation. Do you know if that would still mean he's partially liable or if it changes the price? I don't understand council tax at the best of times! Thanks
    Originally posted by nnb
    Are you in England or Wales ?

    For the purposes of council tax an exclusion doesn't need to involve any occupancy, all that needs to happen is that part of the property is excluded from the tenancy - so that the person isn't renting the entire property.

    Where the whole property isn't rented then council tax wouldn't be apportioned, there is nothing in legislation for that, the whole council tax charge would pass to the landlord. The question however is whether or not it would meet the requirement of not renting the whole property where it is a shed that has been retained for use (also that it has been added to the property after the fact).

    To be honest - in over a decade of working in council tax it's one I've never come across. I've dealt with rooms inside but not part of the property outside - it would be an interesting argument to make.
    Last edited by CIS; 09-07-2018 at 4:48 PM.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax paralegal. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • m0bov
    • By m0bov 9th Jul 18, 4:49 PM
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    m0bov
    Q the early morning arrivals of self hire vans coming and going. I bet its rented out. Youll get randoms coming and going.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 9th Jul 18, 5:10 PM
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    CIS
    Just to add that although admittedly I have had a horrendous landlord privacy issue in the past, just in my experience I have found that 'giving' the landlord access to something in the garden doesn't mean it will stop there.

    For example, my last 3 rentals:

    1) I agreed to a vegetable plot in the far corner of a 5 acre garden. The landlord from hell used it to deliberately sit there and wait for me to leave the house, several times a week. Then he would let himself in. It was as bad as you might imagine. This is an extreme example but it wouldn't have happened if he hadn't arranged an excuse to be there.

    2) The contract specified that another landlord would himself maintain a hot tub on the back garden. He was a decent man but occasionally couldn't resist the temptation of letting himself into the house if I wasn't there. Just to check things while he's there.

    3) Same (but only a couple of times a year) with a third landlady who liked to prune her beloved shrubs herself. I carefully mentioned it once and she was 'just using the toilet because she was desperate' when she was outside in the garden.
    I bet this one happens to you with the storage shed. Just popped in to use the toilet.

    That's 3 out of 3 for me. I've been a landlord myself but I've now started to believe at least half of landlords can't resist the temptation if they're on the spot and see the opportunity.
    Originally posted by Quizzical Squirrel

    I think you're right - once a landlord starts there's often a slip in to even worse behaviour.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax paralegal. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
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